Something Disconcerting

[benjaminlawrence27]

So, I\'ve been pouring over the forums for a while now, reading a lot of posts, and posting myself from time to time. It\'s been fun to see what other people do when they play this game, the ideas they have, etc. However, I\'ve noticed something that bothers me, and that\'s the continual fixation the community has on violence.

STOP RIGHT NOW, AND PLEASE DO NOT JUST SCROLL DOWN TO THE BOTTOM AND POST ABOUT HOW SANCTIMONIOUS I AM. I\'M A HUMAN BEING TOO, AND I HAVE A POINT TO MAKE HERE. Thank You

It\'s just that I\'m a huge fan of science, science fiction, and something that I\'ve always attributed and admired about both of those is that they always talk about the end of our \'Romance with Violence\' that\'s been going on since our ancestors clubbed the first boar to death. I find it really annoying/disconcerting when a new ship/part comes out of the plugin and add-on department, and the first post is from someone who put guns on it.

A few things I pieced together to show you what I\'m talking about:

but what about the conquering the galaxy part, will there be other alien civilizations to shoot at? That would be nice =P

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/521/screenshot47i.png

http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/7554/screenshot93i.png

I was going to grab a few examples from the RP forum, but there were far too many and I quickly decided to exclude it.

I realize that the forums are going to become some peace-loving convent (and I wouldn\'t enjoy it if it were that way). Does this kind of thing bother anyone else?

[Awaras]

I have to say I feel the same way too.

[RC1062]

I have to agree that violence does seem to be prevelant. However, in the case of the RP section I think a little violence/war is justified (considering that\'s what human civilisations have done repeatedly for centuries).

[Sordid]

The thing about sandbox games like KSP is that they let you find your own kind of fun. Some people find their fun in building peaceful Mun bases, some find their fun in sending kerbonauts to die in the cold blackness of space where no one can hear them scream, and some find it in strapping fake guns to their rockets. It\'s not like anyone\'s forcing you to do that stuff in your game, so I say live and let live, bro.

[Kosmo-not]

How are we supposed to sit back and 'live and let live' while they\'re trying to kill us?! ;P

[Drakomis]

WARNING: Incoming opinion post.

You\'re quoting references from the role playing forum.

Let me clarify:

ROLE PLAYING FORUM.

Furthermore, your only reference to outside of the role playing forum is a post from a very long time ago as far as I can tell. (Not sure but you can correct me).

My only two questions are these:

1. Why are you so worried?

2. What exactly is your point here?

Are you a parent? Are you politically correct? What are you trying to say beyond simple complaining and whining about kids? I\'m not understanding.

[benjaminlawrence27]

Drakomis, I honestly can say I didn\'t expect my post to bring up much of a (or any) response, I don\'t mean to offend anyone or impress my opinion on anyone (I actually tried to be objective, and it looks like I failed in that thoroughly).

Let me rectify:

I\'m not worried about the violence (People are violent: it happens), and my point was that I curious to see if anyone else felt the same way I did. Surprisingly, a few people responded that they did, and quite soon too, which is something else I didn\'t expect.

Of those examples I posted, one is from yesterday (General Discussion or KSP Development, don\'t remember which), and the other two are from the RP forum. (They were good examples of what I was talking about, and I\'m not anal/motivated enough to dig through the rest of the forum to find non-RP oriented images)).

If you\'re wondering why I posted in the first place, it\'s because I was surprised to see that most of the game\'s player base have a \'violent trend\', which isn\'t what I expected from a space flight simulator.

Hope that clears things up?

[Grove]

WARNING: Incoming opinion post.

You\'re quoting references from the role playing forum.

Let me clarify:

ROLE PLAYING FORUM.

Furthermore, your only reference to outside of the role playing forum is a post from a very long time ago as far as I can tell. (Not sure but you can correct me).

My only two questions are these:

1. Why are you so worried?

2. What exactly is your point here?

Are you a parent? Are you politically correct? What are you trying to say beyond simple complaining and whining about kids? I\'m not understanding.

I still don\'t understand what he is angry for, that the RP board members are too evil/warmongering or too peaceful/trying to make RP board for everyone a better place?

[Sordid]

I was surprised to see that most of the game\'s player base have a \'violent trend\', which isn\'t what I expected from a space flight simulator.

If you weren\'t \'anal\' enough to find a few pictures, I don\'t imagine you were \'anal\' enough to actually crunch the numbers on that either, were you. So why exactly should anyone take this guesstimate that you pulled out of your backside seriously?

[Grove]

If you weren\'t \'anal\' enough to find a few pictures, I don\'t imagine you were \'anal\' enough to actually crunch the numbers on that either, were you.

ANALITY.

[Sordid]

Heh, yeah. I love how being diligent and actually doing the legwork before flapping your gums is considered uncool in certain circles. :

[Drakomis]

Drakomis, I honestly can say I didn\'t expect my post to bring up much of a (or any) response, I don\'t mean to offend anyone or impress my opinion on anyone (I actually tried to be objective, and it looks like I failed in that thoroughly).

Let me rectify:

I\'m not worried about the violence (People are violent: it happens), and my point was that I curious to see if anyone else felt the same way I did. Surprisingly, a few people responded that they did, and quite soon too, which is something else I didn\'t expect.

Of those examples I posted, one is from yesterday (General Discussion or KSP Development, don\'t remember which), and the other two are from the RP forum. (They were good examples of what I was talking about, and I\'m not anal/motivated enough to dig through the rest of the forum to find non-RP oriented images)).

If you\'re wondering why I posted in the first place, it\'s because I was surprised to see that most of the game\'s player base have a \'violent trend\', which isn\'t what I expected from a space flight simulator.

Hope that clears things up?

I\'m far from offended, that\'s why I offered that WARNING so you knew I wasn\'t.

Anyway, sure, but I still don\'t understand. Violent trend how? There have been no issues of violence, only opinions and parts. I still don\'t see where you\'re coming from with this. It\'s not 'clicking' with me, if you will. I\'m sure there are quite a few people who may have the same opinion, but I can\'t seem to...shall we say...understand it. So, no, it doesn\'t clear it up, it just makes it more confusing.

The reason is simple. When I look at your opinion, it seems like to me your stating your agenda. What agenda that is? Not sure, but it\'s like you\'re stating you do not support the free expression of ideas and beliefs (meaning what you\'re against here) in the safety and highly moderated environment of these forums. So what I\'m confused about is why you\'re saying this.

So I ask again, are you a parent? Are you worried about your kids? Is there something you\'re not saying here?

The reason why I\'m pressing this is simple. If it is the fact you do have kids, do have something that makes these concerns legitimate and not opinion, then I may be able to assist you by talking to you. I\'m all for making this a safe environment for kids and whatever else, so if you feel it\'s not that\'s where I need to step in and start working with you to make sure you (as a possible customer and member) feel safe and secure.

Not by going Nazi on everyone, of course, but by working with you.

SO, answers please? I\'m off to work, so I\'ll probably respond later. If you do have a legitimate concern, PM me. If it turns out not, this will be my last post in this thread and I\'ll allow it to run its course.

WARNING: Opinion

IF it turns out this is entirely an opinion and you do not have a legitimate concern, nor any value of such concern, then allow me to be one of many to say to you that you are either A) Trolling or helplessly anal about this. My suggestion, if this is the case, is to take a step back and worry about your side of the forums instead of forcing your ideals on everyone else. K? Good.

[Capt'n Skunky]

Whoa folks, simmer down. The guy was just making an observation which I also happened to notice as well. I was shocked at how fast the RP went from 'I want this piece of land' to 'I\'m putting nukes in orbit. FIRE!'. It was a tad disconcerting.

In any case, this is a game about rockets that have a tendency to explode a lot making violence inherent to the game. That it would facilitate more violence in the members is hardly surprising.

As Sordid stated, it\'s a single player sandbox game, it\'s what you make it. If some want to make it violent, so be it.

Cheers!

Capt\'n Skunky

KSP Community Manager

[benjaminlawrence27]

I\'m far from offended, that\'s why I offered that WARNING so you knew I wasn\'t.

I\'m not a parent Drak, I\'m a college student. I\'m not worried about my safety and I\'ve never been threatened with violence, so there\'s no need for you to be concerned about that.

So let me state that I\'m not against the free expression of ideas and beliefs, and that you and I, Drakomis, are talking about different types of violence. (We\'ve grossly misunderstood each other). So let\'s fix this.

Let me state that I\'m not against freedom of expression or of beliefs.

The reason I posted is not because I felt threatened, but because I was annoyed/disturbed that a space-flight simulator\'s community would have violent tendencies. What I mean by violent tendencies is that I have to sift through pages and pages of \'battleships\' and ICBM\'s on the forum to find posts about exploration etc. That\'s a really simple way of putting it, but in a nutshell that\'s how I feel, and I wondered if anyone else felt the same way.

Exercising my freedom of expression of belief, if you will.

This thread really got out of hand. (Mostly because Drakomis and I misunderstood each other). I hope this will clear up the subject.

[trbinsc]

I have noticed it, but I don\'t see it as much of a problem. Some people are about violence, some are about exploration and some are about competition. You just have to learn to tolerate other people.

[mincespy]

I don\'t see it as a problem...

Probably because I\'m one of them really.

[Drakomis]

At lunch at work using phone.

I read your post and I understand your point. However ksp is not orbiter. It is not a community that only allows one type of person to post or share. Had you really been browsing the forums you would have realized this. Since you posted this up, and since your only valid point is being annoyed at other peoples creativity, I will state publically that I feel sorry for anyone else that shares your view. You say you value freedom of expression. This thread says otherwise.

Point taken and no offense meant. Carry on.

[Tiberion]

I agree with the general sentiment that the the weapons and war aspect doesn\'t really fit KSP at all. I guess that games that don\'t involve some sort of combat or antagonism are a rare breed these days, and KSP is among them in its default form. I am not opposed to combat games, I play shooters and such myself, but not EVERY game needs to revolve around it.

Thankfully, I am pretty sure the Devs plan to keep it that way, and don\'t plan to add any 'war' features to KSP proper; I\'m sure that plugins will take care of that thing well enough.

I have been asked many times to add various weapons and machines of war to NovaPunch, and I shall continue to decline.

But I would never ask people not to use the parts to create weapons, because in the end, it IS a sandbox game, so people are free to find fun where they choose to.

However, I retain the right to roll my eyes and sigh whenever someone posts one of those massive spaceplaces with 45 railguns strapped onto it.

[Tim_Barrett]

I don\'t mind you using my pictures, and I also don\'t mind your opinion, but my ships are probably, lets say, on the more militial end of the scale. As in, not the average example possible.

But I don\'t see what your problem is with it. Like Drako said, anything within the RP board can\'t really affect anything outside RP.

However, I retain the right to roll my eyes and sigh whenever someone posts one of those massive spaceplaces with 45 railguns strapped onto it.

It\'s getting more and more embarassing every time a weapon plugin comes out, as they ammunition limit becomes less and less of a problem, which is why I had quite a few in the first place. Now, I simulate tri or dual-barrel turrets with much more realistic (and powerful) energy output, like on seafaring battleships we see today.

For example:

EDIT: D\'oh, thanks Drako.

[Misterspork]

Well, if you want the RP forum to be about exploration(Which there\'s already a good amount of in general discussion), you\'re going to have to wait, because the entire 'exploration' aspect of the game has been milked completely and entirely till it\'s dry and dull. Everyone\'s made an orbit, everyone\'s landed on the Mun, everyone\'s gone on an escape trajectory, everyone\'s used mods to do different stuff, everyone\'s who\'s used mods has made an airplane and flown around a little, etc, etc, etc. Pretty much everyone has done everything there is to do with the 'exploration' aspect. Until more planets or even more stars are added, you won\'t see much more.

But what hasn\'t been milked completely and totally is military, everyone\'s racing to create the best fighter/bomber/spacefighter they can, and everyone\'s competing against each other, and it\'s dynamic and exciting. The wars are also dynamic and exciting, even more so than the designing part. And it\'s especially fun when the things you launch into orbit actually have a PURPOSE, rather than just sit there and do nothing which is what exploration is in its current form.

[Radion]

Well, if you want the RP forum to be about exploration(Which there\'s already a good amount of in general discussion), you\'re going to have to wait, because the entire 'exploration' aspect of the game has been milked completely and entirely till it\'s dry and dull. Everyone\'s made an orbit, everyone\'s landed on the Mun, everyone\'s gone on an escape trajectory, everyone\'s used mods to do different stuff, everyone\'s who\'s used mods has made an airplane and flown around a little, etc, etc, etc. Pretty much everyone has done everything there is to do with the 'exploration' aspect. Until more planets or even more stars are added, you won\'t see much more.

But what hasn\'t been milked completely and totally is military, everyone\'s racing to create the best fighter/bomber/spacefighter they can, and everyone\'s competing against each other, and it\'s dynamic and exciting. The wars are also dynamic and exciting, even more so than the designing part. And it\'s especially fun when the things you launch into orbit actually have a PURPOSE, rather than just sit there and do nothing which is what exploration is in its current form.

Exactly. The RP forum isn\'t just military escapades either. Diplomacy and trade are essential to the board. If you\'ve been to the forum, you may have noticed the Grand Council, and its Senate in which we vote for laws. Of the wars we have fought, not a single war was fought for fun or for territory. All of them were fought for either defense or the solving of a specific problem. Intense negotiations have occurred at summits, and cartography skills are used quite extensively. In a sense, the RP forum isn\'t just warfare, its a game I would pay 70 dollars for, and would have done so on the spot. Violence is to be expected from humans, and that\'s nature. Yes, there is a violent trend, but it is not to the extent that is mentioned. Pyromania, perhaps, homicide (kerbicide?), not really.

[Guest Flixxbeatz]

Thanks for the reboot. I\'m not a part of the RP forums anymore. 8)

[Tosh]

Speaking about \'violence in a sandbox space sim\', I\'d like to state the following:

(a) A space program is violent by its origin. We\'d never have a single launch vehicle without V-2s falling on London first (sorry guys, but we have to remember it. BTW who\'s that person who brought Americans to the Moon, and how was he related to V-2?). We\'d never have a civil comm satellite without them first serving for military purpose. Darn, there are many successful launch vehicles (like Soyus or Titan or Atlas) which are merely ICBMs with warheads removed! So The Space is not as peaceful as one could wish.

( As concerns sandbox games then a player is free to choose a task that he likes (that\'s what sandboxes are loved for! ). For example, I (among other engineering tasks) was quite interested in creating weapons and putting them to use. After flying around the world and landing on highest hill and diving to ocean\'s bottom (which, I must remind, is only 60 meters below))) and coming to the Mun and back several hundred times (and getting bored of all mentioned above)... why not to finally shoot something down? 8)

and

© After all I\'m glad that most of warmongery is currently confined to RP forum (which I do not visit ). Human\'s a violent creature; that must be remembered and accounted for; and creating weapons and putting them to use makes up a large part of our history. But... coming with a railgun to the topic discussing Mun rovers can sometimes really annoy))

TL;DR? Violence\'s just normal for a space sim as well as for a sandbox. But -- keep it decent