A Modding Community Divided.

[southernrock]

Overall I find you have no clue how I am feeling. I am not upset. And I do not need to "Calm Down". I wanted to start a discussion. It's started

Maybe I should go back and edit the first post to sound better? Text based communication is hard....

<quoted post snipped>

EDIT: I typed the following in response to a post that has been deleted. Basicaly, he was very angry that he could not use programs like Nexus Mod Manager to apply mods to KSP.

Wow, I did not expect an example to to fall into my lap but YES. Here we have your average end user. They are used to modding games with tools like the Nexas Mod Manager or the Steam Workshop.

Now, to you all, I know this is not your concern. You make mods for you. You make them because you want to and you share them because you can (or, the other way around as it might be). And I am not asking you to be concerned with southernrock's plight. I am asking you to do what you always do, but let me in on it. Let me find a way to get mods to users like southrenrock while letting you guys do as you do. That is the end game everyone. Learn from the modders, create a system that works for the users. As I pointed out upthread, we got the start of something if we can combine those two projects.

Southrenrock, thank you for your input. I have definitely been there. Check out the Community Mods and Plugins Library. Definitely helps until we can come up with a better solution. Also, many of the Authors here post to more than one location. If curse is down then there is a good bet the mod is hosted elsewhere. Check that Community Mods list. It has links to the mod thread on this forum and those will have all the up to date links from github, dropbox, mediafire, curse, kerbal stuff, google drive etc

Yea sorry, my reply was a bit to strong and got deleted...Fact is, Im extremely frustrated by the way KSP handles mods. Im use to messing around with files, editing .ini's, editing configs etc etc, so getting into the core of games isnt a big deal to me or new, so please dont consider me an 'outsider just tuning in' because I honestly feel like Im not. Ive been playing and modding games for nearly 10 years, I may be new to this forum, but not new to KSP or modding in general. But normally when I deal with mods for games, you have a few options, either you have a few great mods, you manually edit files and once tweaked, thats really about it because most games updates last more than a month or two, or you have a really awesome mod manager (NEXUS). I understand that KSP is new, but geez, it is incredibly frustrating how hard it is to maintain mods that break, then trying to find them. Yea, most mods break with updates, I get that, no biggy, but when I have 57 files in my game data, some called tree loader, resgen, us core, parts, open resource system, Im not going to remember each individual mod I downloaded a month ago. I only know of a few by heart, Mechjeb and KW. Others, I just DL on a whim because they look awesome and I want to play with them. Once mods break, I doubt I will find it again in the forums because posts do get buried so quickly. The mod libary does help, but is still a far cry from the sheer volume that is out their. And sorry, but with only using CURSE a handful of times and then not even being able to access it anymore on Chrome or firefox due to some glitch that I cant figure out...yea curse is a big pile, not only that, but half the community isnt even on it. NEXUS is by far the easiest, and my opioun the way that the community needs to move to. Most people who use mods, are comfortable with dropping files into their computer...the majority of users that will come in the future probably wont be and either A) not be comfortable doing so (I do know of these people) want a simpler plug and play method or c) completely disregard mods because they are such a hassle. I can only say this from my experience, but mods for this game ARE AWESOME!!! the quality and sheer love for the work is like no other, so please come together and find a better solution so this wonderful work can be accessed by others easier. If I am frustrated, thats pretty bad. Love you guys

"TheAlmightyOS: That example cuts both ways. As a modder, already dealing with more support requests than I can handle, do I really want the entry bar lowered such that I am liable to be on the receiving end of posts like that?

This, I think was the point that ferram and regex have been making: if a user cannot use google to find a mod, and cannot unzip a single zip file, without running into problems--imagine the support headaches that will cause. Frankly, unless you've tried to support a mod in the week after a new version of KSP comes out, you have literally no idea how much work, and how much user anger, you have to deal with."

But thats part of the big problem I have. After a month goes by, I have no clue what to even google. Hmm, awesome solar panel mod... best one is near future technologies, but that isnt the one Im looking for...because its gotten buried, after about 2 days I finally found the one I wanted, deleted the parts that didnt work and just kept the parts I wanted and have a previous non working mod working just fine(Kosmos). I cannot speak for other users who swamp you with problems, I for one have never submitted a problem ticket. I accept that their will be bugs and that things are being worked on. I move on, read threads, play other games and come back later when things work a little better. Mods are finicky and things happen. I want modders to spend their time making the mod, not reading a list of false reports. And you are right, I do not know how much work you have to deal with, all I can do is post in forums when others feel the same way and hope things can change. And unzipping a single zip file also isnt a problem, but it is when I have 50+ that I have to spend a day searching for those zip files because they are buried in the forum posts. A few dont have good links in their first page and you have to hunt through 100 pages in for a updated link. Oh, 2 days later half break due to a hot fix >X..... The problem isnt your single zip file, its the sheer volume of zip files that is the problem. I want to support ALL THE MODS and see all the hard work EVERYONE has done....but as of now, its nearly impossible to do so. We need the forums not to be the main source for DL links, we need one place where outside people can access peoples mods....Some may say Curse, but I firmly believe in Nexus. I have never had issues in many years using them.

Edited August 5, 2014 by southernrock

[TheAlmightyOS]

TheAlmightyOS: That example cuts both ways. As a modder, already dealing with more support requests than I can handle, do I really want the entry bar lowered such that I am liable to be on the receiving end of posts like that?

This, I think was the point that ferram and regex have been making: if a user cannot use google to find a mod, and cannot unzip a single zip file, without running into problems--imagine the support headaches that will cause. Frankly, unless you've tried to support a mod in the week after a new version of KSP comes out, you have literally no idea how much work, and how much user anger, you have to deal with.

I support applications that are used by every single teacher, principle and superintendent and general education worker in the state of TX. We just promoted new code to production and introduced a new app that ended up causing multiple issues. Trust me, you have literally no idea how much work and how much submitter anger that I deal with on a daily basis. And I don't even write the [darn] code!!! It is a very thankless job.

What I am trying to say, Nathankell, is that I completely understand where you are coming from. And if I work this out like I have it in my head, the user would have to figure out how to use Google and find the forum to post feedback. There would be no direct feedback buttons. Any feedback would be for the application we are going to create.

Yea sorry, my reply was a bit to strong and got deleted...Fact is, Im extremely frustrated by the way KSP handles mods. Im use to messing around with files, editing .ini's, editing configs etc etc, so getting into the core of games isnt a big deal to me or new, so please dont consider me an 'outsider just tuning in' because I honestly feel like Im not. Ive been playing and modding games for nearly 10 years, I may be new to this forum, but not new to KSP or modding in general. But normally when I deal with mods for games, you have a few options, either you have a few great mods, you manually edit files and once tweaked, thats really about it because most games updates last more than a month or two, or you have a really awesome mod manager (NEXUS). I understand that KSP is new, but geez, it is incredibly frustrating how hard it is to maintain mods that break, then trying to find them. Yea, most mods break with updates, I get that, no biggy, but when I have 57 files in my game data, some called tree loader, resgen, us core, parts, open resource system, Im not going to remember each individual mod I downloaded a month ago. I only know of a few by heart, Mechjeb and KW. Others, I just DL on a whim because they look awesome and I want to play with them. Once mods break, I doubt I will find it again in the forums because posts do get buried so quickly. The mod libary does help, but is still a far cry from the sheer volume that is out their. And sorry, but with only using CURSE a handful of times and then not even being able to access it anymore on Chrome or firefox due to some glitch that I cant figure out...yea curse is a big pile, not only that, but half the community isnt even on it. NEXUS is by far the easiest, and my opioun the way that the community needs to move to. Most people who use mods, are comfortable with dropping files into their computer...the majority of users that will come in the future probably wont be and either A) not be comfortable doing so (I do know of these people) want a simpler plug and play method or c) completely disregard mods because they are such a hassle. I can only say this from my experience, but mods for this game ARE AWESOME!!! the quality and sheer love for the work is like no other, so please come together and find a better solution so this wonderful work can be accessed by others easier. If I am frustrated, thats pretty bad. Love you guys

"TheAlmightyOS: That example cuts both ways. As a modder, already dealing with more support requests than I can handle, do I really want the entry bar lowered such that I am liable to be on the receiving end of posts like that?

This, I think was the point that ferram and regex have been making: if a user cannot use google to find a mod, and cannot unzip a single zip file, without running into problems--imagine the support headaches that will cause. Frankly, unless you've tried to support a mod in the week after a new version of KSP comes out, you have literally no idea how much work, and how much user anger, you have to deal with."

But thats part of the big problem I have. After a month goes by, I have no clue what to even google. Hmm, awesome solar panel mod... best one is near future technologies, but that isnt the one Im looking for...because its gotten buried, after about 2 days I finally found the one I wanted, deleted the parts that didnt work and just kept the parts I wanted and have a previous non working mod working just fine(Kosmos). I cannot speak for other users who swamp you with problems, I for one have never submitted a problem ticket. I accept that their will be bugs and that things are being worked on. I move on, read threads, play other games and come back later when things work a little better. Mods are finicky and things happen. I want modders to spend their time making the mod, not reading a list of false reports. And you are right, I do not know how much work you have to deal with, all I can do is post in forums when others feel the same way and hope things can change. And unzipping a single zip file also isnt a problem, but it is when I have 50+ that I have to spend a day searching for those zip files because they are buried in the forum posts. A few dont have good links in their first page and you have to hunt through 100 pages in for a updated link. Oh, 2 days later half break due to a hot fix >X..... The problem isnt your single zip file, its the sheer volume of zip files that is the problem. I want to support ALL THE MODS and see all the hard work EVERYONE has done....but as of now, its nearly impossible to do so. We need the forums not to be the main source for DL links, we need one place where outside people can access peoples mods....Some may say Curse, but I firmly believe in Nexus. I have never had issues in many years using them.

SR, I agree with your general observations, but disagree with pushing yet another Mod hosting site. And trust me, I am a Nexus guy. It just does not work here.

Edited August 5, 2014 by TheAlmightyOS

[Boomerang]

On one hand you talk about wanting to foster discussion on this topic (which I don't see happening in a terribly positive way) and then you talk about how this grand idea in your head is going to make everything awesome. You talk about mod authors having to standardize for the future, putting the burden on them, then you talk about your ideas like you've got some great blueprint kicking around in your office. And in both cases you're being very vague.

I at least haven't investigated your other threads. So what this sounds like to me is you having some great idea that you can't/won't articulate, but you're going to allude to it while trying to convince the community at large to start an epic cat-herding project to streamline the mod-finding process. Maybe if you laid out these great ideas of yours, rather than just bad mouthing the current system, you'd get some more traction.

[TheAlmightyOS]

On one hand you talk about wanting to foster discussion on this topic (which I don't see happening in a terribly positive way) and then you talk about how this grand idea in your head is going to make everything awesome. You talk about mod authors having to standardize for the future, putting the burden on them, then you talk about your ideas like you've got some great blueprint kicking around in your office. And in both cases you're being very vague.

I at least haven't investigated your other threads. So what this sounds like to me is you having some great idea that you can't/won't articulate, but you're going to allude to it while trying to convince the community at large to start an epic cat-herding project to streamline the mod-finding process. Maybe if you laid out these great ideas of yours, rather than just bad mouthing the current system, you'd get some more traction.

1. It did not start off very positive, I admit. But I think that is fixed now, don't you think?

2. I had a potential idea which I pointed out in post 16, combine the two projects and put meta-data in the .version files. Obviously this would have to be talked out. I am not some master planner. I saw something that might work, lets talk it out see where it goes

3. I have no blueprint. All I know is this could be better. And I want to talk to mod authors, collect information and see if we as a community can find a solution that does not interfere with the modders and their process.

4. Modification Standards DOES NOT MEAN standards for modders. I mean it could. But in my case it is more a standard to find, browse, download and update. It is not my intent to put that burden on the mod author.

Right now, I have no ideas, just some thoughts. But I could make them a bit more clear with communication, with the modders and the heads of those projects I mentioned in post 16

You are being hostile right now. Maybe I deserve it. I am very bad with written communication. So I am just going to say sorry. I am sorry I riled you up. But I want to talk to you. I want to figure this out. Want to help?

ps. I am sure I never said anything about making everything awesome

Edited August 5, 2014 by TheAlmightyOS

[HoneyFox]

Well I would suggest the author of OP to change the title to: Mod Repository Divided... that's the case the author is talking about If i get the point...

Modding community? No they are not divided at all, you can see them all right here, in this official forum.

Edited August 5, 2014 by HoneyFox

[NathanKell]

Well, I certainly wouldn't trade your support headaches for mine, that's true!

(Although I will point out that, unless I misunderstand what you're saying, at the least that *is* your job, whereas modders do it as volunteers, in addition to their real life commitments.)

[Hagatora]

I do not expect 100% agreement, just a general "ok, that is a good idea, let's aim for that"

People disagree all the time, but all cars have glove compartments and radios, and cig lighters/power adapters, right? No government forces car makers to have them but they all think it is a good idea

They have those things because the customer base they sell to expect those things. I work in the automotive industry and if a car does not have a common feature, like A/C, power outlets/Lighters, CD player with AM/FM radios, people will complain about it and not purchase that vehicle. They will spend a few hundred more for those options that they consider standard now. It isn't because someone somewhere said the car manufacturers have to have those things in their cars.

40 years ago seat belts were a luxury option and safety glass windscreens. Those things became mandated by the government.

SQUAD is not a government, they are the manufacturer. They are producing a product, that product is highly modifiable, much like a JK Jeep Wrangler, or a EG6 Honda Civic. Once the customer has purchased their product, they no longer have control over what that customer does with it as long as they don't try and rebrand it and sell it as their own. So right now the company SQUAD can say at anytime, we no longer support mods to our product, and shut that section of the forums down. That is their right as the copyright holder. But what they cannot do is stop people from modifing the game code on their own and continue to play the game however they want, as long as no one is making a profit on these mods it is completely legal.

This is the same with cars. You can take a Jeep Wrangler, throw a 4 inch lift on it, some 35 inch BFG tires, and a massive winch on the front, and Chrysler can't say a thing to you. But if you take that vehicle and try and sell it as your own work and as a new car, Chrysler can stop you.

[TheAlmightyOS]

Well I would suggest the author of OP to change the title to: Mod Repository Divided... that's the case the author is talking about If i get the point...

Modding community? No they are not divided at all, you can see them all right here, in this official forum.

Nope. They are UNITED! Against me but hey! UNITED!

[ferram4]

Why don't you go ahead and explain what any of us benefit from this. So far, everything has been focused on the end user alone (and seemingly at modder expense in the process). And I want concrete examples. All that we have covered by "talking" is that modders think everything is fine, you and a few users think it's horrible, and that our systems work for us so there is no reason for any of us to change it as things stand.

[Thesonicgalaxy]

Nope. They are UNITED! Against me but hey! UNITED!

Nobody is against you here. We're against your idea that we need a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

[Justin Kerbice]

One thing: relying on google or other search engines to overcome the lack of a proper one embedded here is... bad. What will happen if those external search engine evolve to something people won't like at all (despite they already include a lot's of user tracking feature right now).

May I suggest to official forum team to work on something to improve the crap search engine we have now. Crap yes, cause it's mostly useless as it is (what's the purpose of finding a specific word in 500 posts of a thread but not pointing to THE post where it is ? Trying to find some mod is also impossible cause name is "too short" like NEAR/FAR).

[sumghai]

May I suggest to official forum team to work on something to improve the crap search engine we have now. Crap yes, cause it's mostly useless as it is (what's the purpose of finding a specific word in 500 posts of a thread but not pointing to THE post where it is ? Trying to find some mod is also impossible cause name is "too short" like NEAR/FAR).

The current forums search feature already has an option to display search results as posts instead of threads.

[HoneyFox]

One thing: relying on google or other search engines to overcome the lack of a proper one embedded here is... bad. What will happen if those external search engine evolve to something people won't like at all (despite they already include a lot's of user tracking feature right now).

May I suggest to official forum team to work on something to improve the crap search engine we have now. Crap yes, cause it's mostly useless as it is (what's the purpose of finding a specific word in 500 posts of a thread but not pointing to THE post where it is ? Trying to find some mod is also impossible cause name is "too short" like NEAR/FAR).

Have to agree with the "too short" issue.

Though I can use some workaround (i.e. use the full name instead of the initials) to overcome that.

[DaMichel]

For discovering mods, i think the forums are fine. This http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/55401-Community-Mods-and-Plugins-Library tells you what mods are available, and this http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/forums/35-Add-on-Releases-and-Projects-Showcase what recent developments are. Understanding that this is the place to go is essential for new users IMO. I think it is unfortunate that Curse is put forth as the official place to look for mods whereas you actually want to go to the forums. I'm sure this will change though so that eventually one repository kind of site will establish itself.

Managing 80 mods on the other hand ... well ... i keep a much lower number of mods because of the effort of managing them. For one, i would love to have a way to be told if a mod has been updated. I imagine we (modders) could include some metadata to be parsed by a repository server which sends out email notifications or something like that. Certainly this has been discussed before and i'm just not aware of the problems. Or does Curse already do this?

Then there may be strange bugs, conflicts between mods. This is where it gets bad and users have to invest some time to find the culprit if they so desire. Standardization or mod managers won't help here.

p.s. @OP i appreciate the effort to push modders to use a common repository but there is no need to get overly emotional about this

[Kartoffelkuchen]

"As you can see on the post count I am sort of new here. I saw the SpacePort all but twice. Did not own the game back then, just looking and wishing and dreaming.But then I did finally get KSP and immediately started looking for mods so I could build the spaceplane I had in my head. What I found was utter chaos. Squad had changed their modding site to Curse, mod authors resisted this change even going as far as creating their own hosting site, Kerbal Stuff. But for most, the KSP Forum was their showcase and the cloud was their host. No easy way to browse, search or even check for updates. Not being new to this sort of thing (I work with developers, after all) I decided I wanted to help. I found many that thought like I did, trying to make tools and meta-repositories that could bring order to chaos. But there are so many, which was the problem in the first place. Too many options. I had my own idea, a dev tool for modders that would package their mod in a standardized way and send it to all current hosting locations. That went over so well that no one posted to that thread. So did my idea of picking a single host point. The mod authors complained so badly for a "don't care" option that one of the Moderators had to add it to the poll. I have been over this so many times in my head, thinking of a standardized way to get mod from author to user without trying to force the authors to do anything out of their normal process. And then I think back to the "I don't care" attitude and get just a tad pissedAll of the Mod Authors here. You. I am angry at you. YOU ARE GEN 1. You are the masters. You are the originals that all KSP modders will emulate years from now. Your actions now will have a drastic impact on the KSP mod community of the future! And right now you are doing NOTHING* to put this community together. Everyone has got their own way of doing things and they don't care about what others do. BUT YOU SHOULD CARE! When KSP goes 1.00.0 is THIS how you want YOUR modding community to work?! Just a bunch of announcements on a forum pointing to github or dropbox or mediafire or [putyourhosthere]? Right now the Add-on Releases and Projects Showcase has 1100+ threads. Do you think the forum could handle 2000 more and still be the slightest bit useful? How would someone find your mod? How would someone even browse though all that if they are just looking at what you guys have to offer? Especially those of you that do not update often cause there is no need to. Your mod would be all the way back on page 40-something. Is this what you want? No? THEN TALK ABOUT IT!No one wants to tell you guys what to do. You guys do an awesome job making mods. But you all need to come together as the leaders of this community and have a nice long chat about the direction you all want to take moving into the future. You don't have to pick a single hosting site or even package your mods a specific way. Just start a dialog! Now if you excuse me, I need to don my flame retardant suit before the flameware starts.*there are a few exceptions. You know who you are. Thank you'"

Ahh...somebody who directly said what I think about! Thanks

[southernrock]

Ok, I took snipits from multiple users that recently posted and due to work a lot of features are a little buggy, so please bear with me-

--And trust m e, I am a Nexus guy. It just does not work here.

Why not? People keep saying that it will not work here. Please tell me why setting up a standard at a place like Nexus will not work for this game? This game has a massive amount of mods that constantly needs updated, so why wouldnt it work?

---You talk about mod authors having to standardize for the future, putting the burden on them

Well, yea? I mean thats kinda the point we are driving. True that the mod author doesnt have to put in time to help standardize the system, but I can nearly promise that if their mod isnt one of the top few, they will get buried, like so many. No one else can put in the code or put in the links. It has to start with the mod aurthors.

---Why don't you go ahead and explain what any of us benefit from this. So far, everything has been focused on the end user alone

Of course it has, its the end user who is wanting to use your product. It should be your (mod authors) job to make their mod and their work easily accessible to users. As of now, its pretty crappy if you arent in the top few big names (mech jeb, KW, etc) Smaller mods get buried rather quickly in the forums. The benifit to the mod author is that more people can access their work and enjoy it.

----We're against your idea that we need a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

Yes, their is a problem, and it is prominently getting bigger with each release. More modders are joining in, more modders are quitting, threads get lost, links stop working, links get put inside 100 pages of a thread.

----well ... i keep a much lower number of mods because of the effort of managing them

Exactly. There are something like 60 thread pages of mods, and each page has something like 20 links. Now with the 64 bit, you really want people to be limited to 5 or 6 mods? Because that is how its starting to become. Those 5 or 6 mods will be the big ones as well, so chances are, smaller mods wont get used and good work will go unnoticed. We need a better way to manage mods. I mean, I dont know about you guys, but Its pretty easy of me to go crazy and just start Dling mods, with the sims, it was easy to DL 50+ user created mods and took no time to hit the DL button.

----This is where it gets bad and users have to invest some time to find the culprit if they so desire. Standardization or mod managers won't help here.

Conflicts happen, heck, Fallout was a nighmare getting it up and running, but once their, it was golden. Standardization and mod managers lets me keep the mods I have instead of trying to hunt them down every month or when their is a new release.

Edited August 5, 2014 by southernrock

[Master Tao]

Of course it has, its the end user who is wanting to use your product. It should be your (mod authors) job to make their mod and their work easily accessible to users. ... The benifit to the mod author is that more people can access their work and enjoy it.

If you take a moment to reread the thread, you'll see that at least some of the modders create mods for their own benefit. Releasing the mods for other players to use is just a nice side effect.

NathanKell made the point that it would take too much work to support players who can't even find the pages DaMichel linked to. As mod users, we need to do everything we can to make the modders' roles easier. That way, modders have more time and energy to continue creating awesome add-ons. A good start is learning how the community works today before trying to change anything.

[cpast]

Well, yea? I mean thats kinda the point we are driving. True that the mod author doesnt have to put in time to help standardize the system, but I can nearly promise that if their mod isnt one of the top few, they will get buried, like so many. No one else can put in the code or put in the links. It has to start with the mod aurthors.

Of course it has, its the end user who is wanting to use your product. It should be your (mod authors) job to make their mod and their work easily accessible to users. As of now, its pretty crappy if you arent in the top few big names (mech jeb, KW, etc) Smaller mods get buried rather quickly in the forums. The benifit to the mod author is that more people can access their work and enjoy it.

Exactly. There are something like 60 thread pages of mods, and each page has something like 20 links. Now with the 64 bit, you really want people to be limited to 5 or 6 mods? Because that is how its starting to become. Those 5 or 6 mods will be the big ones as well, so chances are, smaller mods wont get used and good work will go unnoticed. We need a better way to manage mods. I mean, I dont know about you guys, but Its pretty easy of me to go crazy and just start Dling mods, with the sims, it was easy to DL 50+ user created mods and took no time to hit the DL button.

You are assuming that modders are doing their work because they want users. While this is the case for commercial software development, it is very frequently not the case for modding, where incomes do not depend on number of users. Modding frequently happens because a modder feels like making something for their own game; releasing it is a side effect, and doesn't have to happen (a modder can decide "this is too much of a hassle to release, I'll just use it in my game"). For that matter, not everyone cares if their mod gets buried, because not everyone cares that as many people as humanly possible see their mod.

[regex]

Of course it has, its the end user who is wanting to use your product. It should be your (mod authors) job to make their mod and their work easily accessible to users. As of now, its pretty crappy if you arent in the top few big names (mech jeb, KW, etc) Smaller mods get buried rather quickly in the forums. The benifit to the mod author is that more people can access their work and enjoy it.

First, modders do this as a hobby, generally, they're not putting out a monetized "product". There is no way in hell I'm taking time away from my family and lucrative work day to cater to some rando on the internet complaining about not being able to find/install a mod for a video game. That's idiocy, and it's also not a lot of fun, which is another element of hobbies that get ignored around here. Is your idea of "fun" reading post from strangers on the internet telling you that you're wrong and you should do things their way?

Second, you assume that the individual mod author wants a larger audience which they may not care about, especially considering the support requirements for a larger audience and the increased chance of mouth-breathers who can't be bothered to read and follow simple instructions, much less operate internet forums.

Subscribe to the threads for your favorite mods, it'll save you some time. Quit complaining about people not spending their free time catering to your wishes.

Edited August 5, 2014 by regex

[Ippo]

If standardizing meant only having to follow a certain folder structure and including a metadata file, I'd be happy to do it.

Of course, I'm just a very small modder here, and I don't know how feasible this would be for big mods.

However, we already have a couple of good start-ups, especially AVC. It's a shame that the RSS bundler has been discontinued: luckily, its code is public domain, so maybe someone could pick it up and evolve it in the tool the OP is looking for.

[KerbMav]

In which way have we ever been divided??

*holds KSP mod community banner up higher*

[Padishar]

Please use the standard forum quoting mechanism in future. It makes things much easier to follow...

Why not? People keep saying that it will not work here. Please tell me why setting up a standard at a place like Nexus will not work for this game? This game has a massive amount of mods that constantly needs updated, so why wouldnt it work?

He is saying that the modders don't want such a system, not that it couldn't work for this game. Forcing modders to use it would basically kill off quite a lot of mods but if you're ok with that then...

The benifit to the mod author is that more people can access their work and enjoy it.

This is not necessarily a benefit for various reasons that other people have already posted.

[TheAlmightyOS]

***I am starting fresh at this point because you guys have not been listening to me, only attacking me. Let's try to do something a bit more constructive, shall we?***

I think I will start with ferram4 as he has been a bit more receptive (or at least responsive) to my questions...

Why don't you go ahead and explain what any of us benefit from this. So far, everything has been focused on the end user alone (and seemingly at modder expense in the process). And I want concrete examples. All that we have covered by "talking" is that modders think everything is fine, you and a few users think it's horrible, and that our systems work for us so there is no reason for any of us to change it as things stand.

Ok, so somewhere along the line what I am trying to do has become twisted OR so many have been trying to force you guys to bend over backwards that you see everyone that way. I assure you, I am not that kind of person ferram4. Here is a list of things I Do Not Want

• Additional workload for the modders
  
• Change how the modders distribute their work
  
• to alienate anyone else in this thread​
  

I see two things. A system that does work for the modders and one that is difficult to utilize for users (see explanation below). You're right, ferram4, there is no reason for the modders to change. So I am not going to ask them to. The point of this thread, before it got hopelessly mangled, was to talk to you and your peers, ferram4. Although this thread has not gone to plan I have already learned a few things. The most important thus far, the blowback of supporting your mods. I could see why some modders might want to keep the pool of potential users small. It was something I did not realize mod authors would have to deal with though I go though that sort of thing every day.

But there is more I want to learn. I want to learn about your processes, how you deal with KSP updates and how you handle support requests when you do get them. I want to know your difficulties and what works (which sounds like almost everything) and what doesn't

I do not claim to have a grand plan. I have no fix all. Hell, all I got is a few fragments of various ideas, mostly borrowed from projects all over KSP's forum and a few from other modding communities. My goal is to talk to you all and maybe, hopefully, walk away with an idea. That's all there is here. Because everyone has been telling you guys how to fix "your" problem (you guys don't have the problem). I am comming here, asking the mod authors questions so that I can fix the user problems.

I hope I am being more clear now

*The user issues: I am going to use my own experience. I consider myself an advanced user being that I can mod myself just not in this game yet (I will find time to figure out unity soon). I can *install* (unzip and drop in a folder) mods and for the most part troubleshoot them myself. *IF* I know the name of the mod I want I can find it easily via the forum or google but I mostly use the Community Library. Though it doesn't list them all. Checking my MODS folder (I keep a zip of all my mods pre-install so I can find them again if I need to update) shows 34 mods. That is 34 Mods that may or may not have dependencies, are dependencies themselves. These are all the latest versions, compiled for 0.24.1. It has taken me a week to collect and cultivate this collection of mods. I have not played not a single hour of KSP this week other than to test mods.

If 0.25 came out tonight, it would start all over again.

That is the users issue. I know it is not the Mod authors problem and I am not asking you guys to make it your problem. It's my problem. It is the one I have chosen to fix. And I would like to talk to you all, learn, think, put pieces together. Come up with ideas on the fly (like post 16. Won't someone talk about post 16?).

What you think guys? Can we be civil and talk? I promise to communicate more accurately

Edited August 5, 2014 by Vanamonde
Language.

[Ippo]

Sure, let's talk. So, if I understand your point (correct me if I'm wrong), basically the problem is primarily around two issues:

- finding new mods

- updating already installed mods

If I understand correctly, you would like to have some sort of tool that can automatically install and update mods in a similar fashion to the Nexus Mod Manager.

Is this right or am I misunderstanding something?

[regex]

Won't someone talk about post 16?

Get those two projects working together and get a few big name mods using them, and maybe you'll start to see a consensus. If it really is as simple as adding a file and maybe writing a script for updating/packaging/building, very few will have an issue. But the moment modders have to start uploading to multiple places that aren't their favorite, you're going to start seeing backlash. Having accounts on tons of different sites and requiring multiple uploads increases workload and the chance that something will be missed. No one wants to add workload because that means less time having fun doing a hobby.

What you think guys? Can we be civil and talk? I promise to communicate more accurately

A certain user in this thread isn't exactly helping your cause.