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Three months after joining forces with Curse.com, this is what...

SQUAD

By SQUAD
in KSP1 The Daily Kerbal

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Ippo

Ippo

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Posted (edited)
-snip- Space Port was fine and dandy, few problems, no real big ones that break it. Why'd you guys switch? And why Curse? Why not use KerbalStuff if you can't handle spaceport anymore.

This is wrong on so many levels.

SpacePort was horrible: it had basically no features besides hosting a zip, it rendered incorrectly on virtually any browser, and it had a bug that caused a ton of duplicate entries.

Also you are confused about the timeline: kerbalstuff was made AFTER the switch to curse, so of course it wasn't an option when they switched.

Edited by KasperVld
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KerbMav

KerbMav

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I think it is somehow - in a tragic way - funny to read posts that seem to be based on the assumption, Squad would enforce the use of Curse, ban players for uploading mods anywhere else or sue alternative sites.

I have yet to understand - honestly, I did not have any problems when following a forums link to a mods curse download - where this abhorrence towards curse is coming from. It is an ad heavy site, yes, but after two or three clicks I am gone without even looking at any banner?

I do prefer github though for its simplicity, better even if the download starts directly from the mod's thread link.

Maxmaps made some ambiguous comments, yes, but there have been post from Squad that curse is not mandatory for anything, not even ModdingMonday. I concur that the pretty picture posted here explains/tells none of the reasons Squad had to cooperate with curse in the first place, as it only shows numbers from after that point in time. All we have is Maxmaps "I know these guys!" comment in the infamous chat a few days ago.

Squad announced to host their own stuff only on curse in the future, as happened with the first ever official mod by Squad, the soccer ball thingies. Maybe Squad earns 0.002 cents for every click on a KSP mod in exchange for advertising the site as an official partner - so what? Even if sugary-soda-drink-company is the official sponsor of a sports event you will not get kicked out of the stadium for drinking something from that-other-sugary-soda-drink-company or drinking anything not sugary or soda.

Squad announced to take measures to secure its IP, yes, but neither has Kerbalstuff been shut down by the FBI nor have any cease and desist letters been sent to modders not uploading to curse - I think it was either lucky timing or simply a reaction to the new site using a name that could lead to confuse Kerbalstuff to be something officially by Squad, the naming of Kerbalstuff a trigger for Squad to become aware of possible problems in the future. They acted responsibly as a company, good for them, good for us, I like companies that try to survive long enough to ensure me getting what I want from them: KSP 3.5! :wink:

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Padishar

Padishar

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-snip- Space Port was fine and dandy, few problems, no real big ones that break it. Why'd you guys switch? And why Curse? Why not use KerbalStuff if you can't handle spaceport anymore.

Spaceport was definitely not "fine and dandy", it had so many flaws in operation, implementation and the original design concepts that it was virtually useless. It was much easier to find things on the forum than to go hunting on Spaceport.

Also, could you cite all this information? I don't believe Curse has been better than space port. Especially since the Curse layout is covered in ad's and ad space, obscuring every inch of the background.

Curse is literally an Advertising site for Ads, with the forums and mod's just there to get traffic.

I have yet to understand - honestly, I did not have any problems when following a forums link to a mods curse download - where this abhorrence towards curse is coming from. It is an ad heavy site, yes, but after two or three clicks I am gone without even looking at any banner?

I do prefer github though for its simplicity, better even if the download starts directly from the mod's thread link.

Squad,

You really need to sort out your policy on Curse/CurseForge. The button at the top of the forums links to CurseForge which has nothing that I would call an ad and doesn't excessively push any kind of premium subscription service (great). When people follow the CurseForge download link for my mod they also don't get any ads or other hassle (also great). Then you go and release stuff like this that explicitly states "curse.com" which does have lots of ads and other issues (decidedly not great).

I don't see the point of CurseForge existing if you aren't going to be consistent in using it, or are you somehow contractually obliged in some way to mention curse.com? Curse appears to have cleaned up its act considerably compared to how it used to be but people are still very wary of ad heavy sites (especially ones with a history of not vetting the ads) or ones that continually push subscription services. Yes, these companies need to make money to support their operation but ads are not a sustainable business model and neither is pushing a premium subscription service so much that you put off potential subscribers.

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tajampi

tajampi

Posted
Posted

Hmmm, i don´t know why everybody hates Curse that much, you can block the Ads, you dont have to install software to install mods (minecraft .-. ) and Squad lets you host a mod service, etc... I dont like Curse in other games, and i download most mods from other sites, but Curse does not look that bad...

Cheers! :)

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DonPiano

DonPiano

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I don't see the point of CurseForge existing if you aren't going to be consistent in using it, or are you somehow contractually obliged in some way to mention curse.com?

It seems plausible to me. I'm sure they realized that posting the info-graphic would continue the debate. They're kind of shooting themselves in the foot.

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Bobnova

Bobnova

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Curseforge is pretty decent. I still like Kerbalstuff better.

Curse.com's KSP page is horrid. Download delays, ads, premium memberships, buttons asking for donations to help support development that don't tell you who's development. It's nearly the same as every file hosting site out there, just less malware.

Without prior numbers or community growth numbers to go with the fliers, they're marketing garbage, not fact.

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SirCmpwn

SirCmpwn

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KerbalStuff currently has 136 mods.

80 mods, 591 users. Also, we're still in beta and clearly not done, so hold off on getting too excited.

I think the Curse numbers are similar to what you'd see with any officially backed modding site that's better than SpacePort.

Also, for those who don't know, Kerbal Stuff was started after the switch to Curse, and Squad was basically committed at that point. I wouldn't hold your breath for having them switch to supporting Kerbal Stuff instead.

That should cover everything that's been said so far, and going forward I don't think we should derail this thread any further.

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Padishar

Padishar

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Posted
What do you mean?

Well, I thought my meaning was quite obvious. That section was addressed to Squad and was asking if Squad were contractually obliged to advertise curse.com (which stands a chance of generating advertising revenue for curse) rather than curseforge.com (which will not because there are no ads).

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Rowsdower

Rowsdower

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Posted (edited)
Well, I thought my meaning was quite obvious. That section was addressed to Squad and was asking if Squad were contractually obliged to advertise curse.com (which stands a chance of generating advertising revenue for curse) rather than curseforge.com (which will not because there are no ads).

No, we're not. However, Curseforge is more targeted to modders, as opposed to those who just download the mods. Everyone can still use it, but it's technically for modders. That's why Curse, not Curseforge will be mentioned in a more general sense. I've always stressed that if anyone is uncomfortable with Curse that they at least give Curseforge a try. I've also kept it linked up above since day one of our partnership announcement. It's an ad-free experience that is still hosted by our official partner. If that doesn't suit your fancy, all the alternatives are still out there, waiting for you.

Edited by Rowsdower
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ScopusAurelius

ScopusAurelius

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I am proud to say that I have no bizarre anxieties about clicking a download link on Curse vs. clicking it on some alternative. Did the owners of Curse burn a village somewhere that I didn't read about? Have I just been lucky that my UI-clicking experience on their site was no more angst-ridden than on any other site? Do they fund the Klan, or something? Why all the antipathy for just another downloading host?

This smells a lot like a fight with Apple fanboys, or an "OMG Mechjeb is cheating" thread.

Unless, of course, somebody will cite an objective reason for not using Curse.

Edited by sumghai
Consolidated consecutive replies by the same poster
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Vanamonde

Vanamonde

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Maybe Squad earns 0.002 cents for every click on a KSP mod in exchange for advertising the site as an official partner - so what?

No money changes hands between Squad and Curse, going either way.

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godefroi

godefroi

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Unless, of course, somebody will cite an objective reason for not using Curse.

I can only give you the ancient history here. My WoW experience is from pre-Cataclysm days. Back then, WoW addon hosting was wild-west, like mod hosting for KSP in the pre-Curse days. Then, Curse showed up, and some addons hosted there. Because WoW is/was a popular game, and WoW accounts are/were quite valuable in some cases, those known to have WoW accounts are frequently targeted for account hacks, and, coincidentally, those who download WoW addons are quite likely to have WoW accounts. This made Curse a fantastic attack vector for those wishing to get at WoW accounts.

There was at least one case of a Curse advertisement doing drive-by infections of malware. This case may be rumoured, or it may have actually happened. Kaelten could probably confirm, but if it's true, he likely wouldn't. Either way, it doesn't really matter, Curse's reaction didn't satisfy the community, and a bad reputation was laid on them.

Regardless, I think most people's objections boil down to the fact that it feels exploitative to be subjected to things like ads and wait times to download mods.

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Alshain

Alshain

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Posted (edited)
I am proud to say that I have no bizarre anxieties about clicking a download link on Curse vs. clicking it on some alternative. Did the owners of Curse burn a village somewhere that I didn't read about? Have I just been lucky that my UI-clicking experience on their site was no more angst-ridden than on any other site? Do they fund the Klan, or something? Why all the antipathy for just another downloading host?

A lot of the complaint is the ads and the premium service thing on curse.com. Bukkit plugin developers get free premium accounts, which removes ads if they get enough downloads and just a few more points and I get a $50 amazon card. If I get my KSP mod out this week maybe that will push me over the edge, but I'm not sure if that's true for KSP mods.

Edited by Alshain
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Tiberion

Tiberion

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I don't think that using Curse vs not using Curse is the discussion we should be having any more. There are pages of discussion on that to be found about that and you can decide if its the right choice for you or not based on that. Curse isn't going amywhere so we should move on from that. It's enough to know that you have alternatives, and you don't lose anything by using them.

I am more concerned about how Squad views the modding community, and how it promotes it. This infographic was teased as a "celebration of our dedicated mod community" a few times. It's a celebration of Curse. How cool it is, how much everyone seems to love it. It's promotion of their partner, not promotion of their modding community. It's another example of 'If you don't use Curse, you're less important' and it ignores the mod COMMUNITY, which existed before Curse and before Spaceport, and exaggerates Curse's involvement.

Again I am only left to beg Squad to change how they view, promote and interact with their modding community. Because this is just weird, and I think the fact that most of the response to the infographic here on the forum (and reddit too) have been rolled-eyes and mocking comments back that up.

I do want to state that Modding Mondays is an example of how to do it right. If you did a lot more of that - showcasing cool mods (new, old, whatever) and even add a little depth to the coverage and show the cool ways that people are using the mods, like a certain forum team's recent Mars (not Duna) mission, then that would be cool, and it would show that you guys really see what is going on in the modding scene outside of some traffic counters on Curse. I'm sure those excite both you and Curse, but they don't really excite us.

Edited by Tiberion
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CoFFian

CoFFian

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Posted
This smells a lot like a fight with Apple fanboys, or an "OMG Mechjeb is cheating" thread.

Unless, of course, somebody will cite an objective reason for not using Curse.

Yep, I don't see any serious matter why that people hate Curse. My only theory is about of name of this service. Like "IT'S KSP'S CURSE, WE WILL ALL DIE WITH USING IT!!!1!"

But, I prefer Nexus... =)

PS: I'm sorry for my bad english, it's not my native language, I'm only learn it... :blush:

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Mandelbrot

Mandelbrot

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I just wanted to say that I have really liked Curse so far in comparison with Spaceport. My only experience with Curse is through KSP and I use ad-block so that may make a difference in my experience. But I really like the sorting and being able to browse by category - that part works way better than Spaceport. I have actually found useful mods browsing it, something I never did on Spaceport.

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godefroi

godefroi

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Posted (edited)

Spaceport was a pretty low bar; anyone that says it wasn't is fooling themselves. That Curse is better than Spaceport says more about Spaceport than Curse.

That being said, as a mod downloader, Curseforge isn't horrible. Curse is. The entire premise behind download timers is a lie. It's not to ease load on their download servers, it's to keep eyes on the ads longer.

I do completely agree with Tiberion, though. Squad displayed (and continues to display) a lot of disrespect for the mod community that has put so much into their game.

Edited by godefroi
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