[1.x+] Community Resource Pack

[futrtrubl]

He just gave it to you.

There's nothing about the IntakeAtm resource that makes it work in oxygen-less atmospheres. That's a function of ModuleResourceIntake

Sorry, I completely missed the major part of that ;']

Couldn't a user abuse that by using such engines/intakes to get air for oxygen breathing engines then?

[Northstar1989]

Sorry, I completely missed the major part of that ;']

Couldn't a user abuse that by using such engines/intakes to get air for oxygen breathing engines then?

Yes, they could. The module posted by RoverDude simply produces IntakeAir in oxygen-less atmospheres (as indicated by "resourceName = IntakeAir") rather than producing a separate resource in oxygen-less atmospheres (which is IntakeAtm). It wouldn't even necessarily be intentional for many players- they might not know that there isn't supposed to be Oxygen on Eve, for instance... (it isn't exactly a perfect analog of Venus to say the least- it's got OCEANS ) And if they're using RAPIER engines in auto-switch mode, they might swap to airbreathing mode if they detect IntakeAir even though there shouldn't be any Oxygen available...

How do you get around this RoverDude? Because the module you posted doesn't avert this issue on its own. Do you have some sort of direct link between the intakes and the engines? Not that it really solves the issue for engines in KSP-Interstellar, etc. which rely on the standard intake system to generate intake for their oxygenless atmospheric-propulsion systems...

In short, the IntakeAtm resource needs to stay- unless you can show some better solution than the module you posted... (which simply disables the check for Oxygen in the atmosphere when producing IntakeAir)

Regards,

Northstar

[RoverDude]

Ahh.. yeah, the KA engines have built in intakes for operating in this mode - so assuming KSPI has intakes as separate bits, I can see that being an issue. Guess we can leave it in then since you folks might have that use case.

- - - Updated - - -

Also RE LqdCO2 - would need Nertea to see if it ties out, i.e. it's relative density should be on the same yardstick as all of the other liquid gasses for consistency. I'll have to do a scrollback and see how he's baselining.

Assuming all densities are consistent and based on the same assumptions, the final number should be irrelevant if it is inline with that.

[Edit]

I'm seeing 1256.74 kg/m3 for LqdCO2 (which ties in pretty close to the 1200) and 1142.2 for LqdOxygen (which is what it already is in CRP).

So I'd propose for consistency plugging LqdCO2 in at ther 1256.74 number.

Edited March 3, 2015 by RoverDude

[RoverDude]

Oh - and Uraninite is listed as a fictitious resource - it's not

[Nertea]

I deprecated LqdPeroxide, it'll be replaced by CO2. Also removed all the Biomass resources and normalized CO2 density. Could use some input (KSPI people) on the cost of He3 and Antimatter, as well as whether you guys want Antimatter as a gas or a slush.

In addition, there may be some things to decide about nuclear resources. We have all sorts right now... from NFT, RF and KSPI.

U235Rods

DepU235Rods

EnrichedUranium

DepletedUranium

Plutonium238

Actincides

Some consolidation seems possible here. Additionally I thought KSPI had some crazy thorium stuff, not sure if it should be in here. My input is that EnrichedUranium and DepletedUranium are enough for me, they adequately represent everything I need to represent.

[FreeThinker]

It would be LqdCO2 for consistency, with the expectation that folks would adjust their mods accordingly (again, this whole bit is for 1.0 so we all have time to deal with our respective changes). Sorry, given that we're giving up LiquidHydrogen for consistency the same is going to need to apply to LiquidCO2.

It seems LiquidCO2 is already used by BioFuels, let him keep it. For CRP we must define a new resource LqdCO2 with our universal 1 unit /L, meaning a density of 1200 kg/m³

- - - Updated - - -

Some consolidation seems possible here. Additionally I thought KSPI had some crazy thorium stuff, not sure if it should be in here. My input is that EnrichedUranium and DepletedUranium are enough for me, they adequately represent everything I need to represent.

No Thorium (ThF4) is definatly something different from Uranium, is performs and behaves totally differnent.

- - - Updated - - -

note KSPI also makes a distiction between UraniumNitride and UraniumFloride (UF4). UraniumNitride is an improved Nuclear Fuel type which is considered superior because of its higher fissionable density, thermal conductivity and melting temperature than the most common nuclear fuel

Edited March 4, 2015 by FreeThinker

[RoverDude]

All fine by me, as long as the stuff is consistent and we don't have two names for the same thing, there's little harm in having some variety.

Did we decide that nobody is using that plutonium resource?

[FreeThinker]

I'm seeing 1256.74 kg/m3 for LqdCO2 (which ties in pretty close to the 1200)

1256.74 sounds fine, where does it come from?

- - - Updated - - -

All fine by me, as long as the stuff is consistent and we don't have two names for the same thing, there's little harm in having some variety.

Did we decide that nobody is using that plutonium resource?

Well, KSPI is not using it "yet", I haven't fully investigated to subject yet. We might want to use it if there are any advantages to it, which it probably are otherwise it wouldn't be so much in use.

I beleive the stuff might be usefull in nuclear batteries, which KSPI is not specialised it, far to little power ..

It is probably also an economical intresting resource as is should be significantly cheaper and you can produce it from any uranium you find in the wild.

Edited March 4, 2015 by FreeThinker

[RoverDude]

Yeah I vaguely recall that there were KSPI plans for RTGs back in the day but it was never used. Really, it's easier for us to add stuff in than take it out

FYI here's where I got my CO2 density:

http://encyclopedia.airliquide.com/encyclopedia.asp?GasID=26

[Nertea]

- - - Updated - - -

note KSPI also makes a distiction between UraniumNitride and UraniumFloride (UF4). UraniumNitride is an improved Nuclear Fuel type which is considered superior because of its higher fissionable density, thermal conductivity and melting temperature than the most common nuclear fuel

Soo... densities? Input on costs?

[FreeThinker]

Soo... densities? Input on costs?

Well these are the existing density and cost, hope they help:

RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
  name = UF4
  density = 0.005
  flowMode = ALL_VESSEL
  transfer = NONE
  isTweakable = true
  unitCost = 0.26
}
RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
  name = ThF4
  density = 0.0042
  flowMode = ALL_VESSEL
  transfer = NONE
  isTweakable = true
  unitCost = 0.063
}
RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
  name = UraniumNitride
  density = 0.0143
  flowMode = ALL_VESSEL
  transfer = PUMP
  isTweakable = true
  unitCost = 0.7436
}
RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
  name = DepletedFuel
  density = 0.005
  flowMode = ALL_VESSEL
  transfer = PUMP
  isTweakable = false
}
@RESOURCE_DEFINITION[Aluminium]
{
  %unitCost = 0.027
}
@RESOURCE_DEFINITION[Lithium]
{
  %unitCost = 0.0032
}
@RESOURCE_DEFINITION[Ammonia]
{
  %unitCost = 0.00044
}
@RESOURCE_DEFINITION[LqdHelium]
{
  %unitCost = 0.022
}
@RESOURCE_DEFINITION[Antimatter]
{
  %isTweakable = true
  %unitCost = 1
}
RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
  name = LqdDeuterium
  density = 0.0001624
  flowMode = ALL_VESSEL
  transfer = PUMP
  isTweakable = true
  unitCost = 0.6496
}
RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
  name = LqdTritium
  density = 0.0002436
  flowMode = ALL_VESSEL
  transfer = PUMP
  isTweakable = true
  unitCost = 2304.0
}
RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
  name = LqdHelium3
  density = 0.000059
  flowMode = ALL_VESSEL
  transfer = PUMP
  isTweakable = true
  unitCost = 525.2
}

[Nertea]

I don't see Actincides in that list. Are they gone?

So now we have these:

Actincides [same as UF4??]

DepU235Rods

DepletedFuel [same as UF4??]

DepletedUranium [corrected to UO2 density]

EnrichedUranium [corrected to UO2 density]

Plutonium238 [corrected to proper density]

TH4 [corrected to proper density]

U235Rods

UF4 [corrected to proper density]

UraniumNitride [good already density]

RF folk, do you mind unifying with me on DepletedUranium (U235Rods) and EnrichedUranium (DepU235Rods)? I think I use the same proxy as you (uranium oxide rods).

Edited March 5, 2015 by Nertea

[Raptor831]

Don't want to speak for NathanKell and RF, but as far as Stockalike goes I'd be cool with just EnrichedUranium and DepletedUranium for the nuclear resources. Or, split the difference and go EnrichedU235 and DepletedU235 in case there's some reason to specify isotopes in the resource name.

[RoverDude]

Sooo close

[FreeThinker]

I don't see Actincides in that list. Are they gone?

What gave you that idea? I only gave you the list of Nuclear resources defined outside of CRP

Actincides, is currently defined in the existing CRP, which KSPI relies on. Don't delete it!!!

DepletedFuel should be as dense as UF4 (technically is should be slightly lighter, as part of mass was converted to energy)

Edited March 5, 2015 by FreeThinker

[Raptor831]

Sooo close

Noticed that. Yeah, not sure exactly what kind of fuel rods or whatever NathanKell was intending the U235Rods to be, but I would imagine whatever was used in NERVA.

[FreeThinker]

I notice a few minor bugs in the CRP spreadsheet. Nitrogen and NitrogenOxide is not a Liquid but a Gas. Antimatter is not a fictional resource. The suff realy exist. It's just very had to require it and store it.

Seems to me DepU235Rods = DepletedUranium (DUO) and U235Rods = EnrichedUranium (UO). The Rods are nothing but a form factor which prevent the Uranium spontainius chain reacting. THis stuff is te same.

Perhaps a little late, but a gas is missing, which is part of the production process of UF4 and ThF4, namely , Fluorine. Oalthough considered useless, it ise very usefull for production of nuclear fuel and some scientist even speculate that live can exist in Fluorine rish world.

Edited March 5, 2015 by FreeThinker

[RoverDude]

I say add in stuff we're considering for the future.

Also the nice bit with consolidation around EnrichedUranium is that any of our collective parts that handle refining/harvesting/recycling can interop.

[Raptor831]

If we're going to consolidate U235/Uranium, remember to mark the EnrichedUranium/DepletedUranium as a RF resource as well. Currently they're marked only as NFT.

[Nertea]

What gave you that idea? I only gave you the list of Nuclear resources defined outside of CRP

Actincides, is currently defined in the existing CRP, which KSPI relies on. Don't delete it!!!

DepletedFuel should be as dense as UF4 (technically is should be slightly lighter, as part of mass was converted to energy)

No need to get agitated dude. I asked for input on some resources and you left it out of commentaries, so I was understandably seeking clarification. You still haven't told me whether you want to define antimatter as a gas or liquid/slush.

Noticed that. Yeah, not sure exactly what kind of fuel rods or whatever NathanKell was intending the U235Rods to be, but I would imagine whatever was used in NERVA.

Yeah, I think it's the same. I've consolidated it as UO2.

I notice a few minor bugs in the CRP spreadsheet. Nitrogen and NitrogenOxide is not a Liquid but a Gas. Antimatter is not a fictional resource. The suff realy exist. It's just very had to require it and store it.

Seems to me DepU235Rods = DepletedUranium (DUO) and U235Rods = EnrichedUranium (UO). The Rods are nothing but a form factor which prevent the Uranium spontainius chain reacting. THis stuff is te same.

Perhaps a little late, but a gas is missing, which is part of the production process of UF4 and ThF4, namely , Fluorine. Oalthough considered useless, it ise very usefull for production of nuclear fuel and some scientist even speculate that live can exist in Fluorine rish world.

I added Fluorine, and moved those gasses into the gas section (their densities were already gases).

[FreeThinker]

You still haven't told me whether you want to define antimatter as a gas or liquid/slush.

Note sure what is realisitic. It probably doesn't matter realy, you are never going to put it into a regular fuel storage container, it would instanly obliberate it. In KSPI they are stored in some sort of magnetic torus ring. Seems to me, that stuff only works if it's in a Plasma state. But I'm no expert.

Regarding the density, perhaps it would be best to keep it in Fractals KSPI orginal setting

Antimatter - Each unit represents 1mg of Anti-Hydrogen. When combined with matter it violently annihilates, producing lots of energy to power your reactors if done in a controlled fashion or exploding with cataclysmic results if handled improperly.

Edited March 5, 2015 by FreeThinker

[futrtrubl]

Note sure what is realisitic. It probably doesn't matter realy, you are never going to put it into a regular fuel storage container, it would instanly obliberate it. In KSPI they are stored in some sort of magnetic torus ring. Seems to me, that stuff only works if it's in a Plasma state. But I'm no expert.

Regarding the density, perhaps it would be best to keep it in Fractals KSPI orginal setting

I was thinking something similar as dealing with liters of antimatter was freaking me out. Then I looked it up and 1 liter of antihydrogen (gas at STP) is 90mg so actually only 2 magnitudes greater while maintaining the standard.

Edward

[kerbiloid]

As I have read years ago in a technical magazine (in a Russian translation of an American article), the cryogenic slash was considered as the most perspective way to store the antimatter for near-future fusion engines.

Idea was: anti-protons placed inside a very cold hydrogen slash matrix.

Very low temperature causes very low temperature vibrations speed, very short movement distances, very tiny probability of proton-antiproton contact.

So, this slash is continuously annihilating, but due to very low temperature does this very slowly - for years and decades.

That would allow to keep it for flight purposes.

As you can see in FractalUK's model, any antimatter tank continuously needs energy.

If energy is off, 30 seconds later it bursts.

If there were plasma in magnetic field, why those 30 seconds?

If KSPI antimatter is a slash (by its creator will) - that's clear: without a cooling the tank warms, the annihilation accelerates, and 30 seconds after the reaction becomes irreversible.

So, KSPI antimatter looks like tiny quantity of antiprotons frozen inside large quantity of hydrogen cryo-slash.

[futrtrubl]

As you can see in FractalUK's model, any antimatter tank continuously needs energy.

If energy is off, 30 seconds later it bursts.

If there were plasma in magnetic field, why those 30 seconds?

If KSPI antimatter is a slash (by its creator will) - that's clear: without a cooling the tank warms, the annihilation accelerates, and 30 seconds after the reaction becomes irreversible.

So, KSPI antimatter looks like tiny quantity of antiprotons frozen inside large quantity of hydrogen cryo-slash.

The magnetic field may take time to decay. But more probably it is a gameplay mechanic so you don't go boom just because your antenna used too much power to send an experiment.

Also, and I know this is a non-native language issue, it's "slush" not "slash". But now I can't get the idea of antiproton/hydrogen slash fiction out of my head.

[kerbiloid]

Yes, I mean "slush". Maybe even "slush pellets".