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Will x64 get updated with .25?

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marce

marce

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Yesterday I decided not to wait any longer and fired up a linux partition. Linux 64bit KSP (chewing about 7GB of KSP in RAM) is running at least as good as 32bit Win for me and I haven't seen any drawbacks yet. Win x64 was crashing after at least 2min for me.

Every mod I ever wanted is now installed :)

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Alshain

Alshain

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The issues with 64-bit largely have to do with Unity x86-64/Windows.

I'm sure there's one or two things on Squad's end that have to be fixed up, but the ball's mostly in Unity's end of the court.

(it's a quantum ball, so hence 'mostly'.)

I don't buy that line. There are other games running x64 using Unity 4.

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Padishar

Padishar

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Padishar: A number of them do, IIRC, besides which as I understand it SQUAD has access to Unity source anyway and can find and fix it if it is indeed a pointer-casting issue.

I'm not totally convinced it is that simple as I would've expected it to have been fixed by now (by Unity let alone Squad) if it was. There is probably some other complication that helps to hide the issue in the source, e.g. something odd like a structure and/or union packing difference between the compilers or even a reliance on a particular undefined behaviour...

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Alshain

Alshain

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I'm not totally convinced it is that simple as I would've expected it to have been fixed by now (by Unity let alone Squad) if it was. There is probably some other complication that helps to hide the issue in the source, e.g. something odd like a structure and/or union packing difference between the compilers or even a reliance on a particular undefined behaviour...

The 23.5 64-bit "hack" worked better than the current x64 version. Not only the same Unity, the same game.

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Alewx

Alewx

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The 23.5 64-bit "hack" worked better than the current x64 version. Not only the same Unity, the same game.

For me both do not work so well.

I hope that an update from 4.5.2f to 4.5.4 in untiy makes any increase in stability, but honestly I doubt that unity was able to do things right.

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blizzy78

blizzy78

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I'm not totally convinced it is that simple as I would've expected it to have been fixed by now (by Unity let alone Squad) if it was. There is probably some other complication that helps to hide the issue in the source, e.g. something odd like a structure and/or union packing difference between the compilers or even a reliance on a particular undefined behaviour...

Or just the sheer size of the engine source code that you would have to sift through :)

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Padishar

Padishar

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Or just the sheer size of the engine source code that you would have to sift through :)

Yeah, there probably is quite a lot of source. I'd start by cranking up the warning level so the compiler warns you about casts between different sized types (and search the source for warning overrides if your compiler supports those). Even if they get buried in thousands of other warnings you can still search for the ones you're looking for. I did this a few years ago on an application with >1.5 million lines of code and found the issue really quickly. Unfortunately, fixing it required a change to a core data structure that threw a lot of other, very highly optimised, code out of whack so the fix took over a week to implement and be sure enough it was safe and no slower than before...

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Renegrade

Renegrade

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I don't buy that line. There are other games running x64 using Unity 4.

Those games secretly switched to a different engine prior to going x86-64. /trollface

In all seriousness though, which games are these? I wasn't aware that anybody actually used Unity aside from Squad, let alone x86-64 Unity..

the real question is when is KSP getting multicore

Unity 5 is supposed to have better multicore support, but don't get too hyped up. Depending on the nature of the problem, it may not be well-suited for multithreaded solutions. Thread synchronization overhead and non-CPU resources will most likely trim the results down considerably.

...and can find and fix it if it is indeed a pointer-casting issue.
e.g. something odd like a structure and/or union packing difference between the compilers or even a reliance on a particular undefined behaviour...

These sound like the same sort of issues we were having thirty years ago.... *cough*

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xtoro

xtoro

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Yesterday I decided not to wait any longer and fired up a linux partition. Linux 64bit KSP (chewing about 7GB of KSP in RAM) is running at least as good as 32bit Win for me and I haven't seen any drawbacks yet. Win x64 was crashing after at least 2min for me.

Every mod I ever wanted is now installed :)

x2! I've been playing the Linux version forever. Got a new PC with windows and the KSP Windows version just crashed non-stop at least once every hour... Even with no mods!! So, new Linux partition, back to KSP 64-bit on Linux.

No problems, no crashes, plays perfectly and I run almost 2 dozen mods. In fact, I leave KSP running for days on end. I just pause it, minimize and do other stuff, then reopen and carry on. KSP Windows sucks...

Edit: Correction, I'm using almost 50 mods lol

Edited by xtoro
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Renegrade

Renegrade

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Man, you're triggering my 'meh' meter with that list. It's like a Steam/Android/iOS sale of crowdfunded low-end pre-orders, spinoffs...and KSP. (Also, I stand corrected, I have seen Rust and Robocraft before.. also meh though)

Anyhow, I filtered out the phone garbage and checked out a half dozen of the games, and they all seem to be Win32.

If you can provide a specific example (or three) of an x86-64 Unity game that a) actually uses more than 3.5g of assets at once and B) runs flawlessly, we can review it in detail and bring this to Squad's attention, as the Official Squad Word is that Unity x86-64 is the issue.

As long as Squad believes it to be a Unity issue, they're not likely to aggressively attack bugs until they're on Unity 5. Which, in their defense, is fair enough, as Unity 4's Windows 64-bit support is officially beta last I checked.

Or we can just wait until Unity 5, and then pin it on them if the 64-bit version is still problematic. I don't know the official timeframe for that, but it sounds like soon - and not just Squad Soonâ„¢ either.

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Mister Spock

Mister Spock

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Endless Legend is one of the games on that list, and it uses Unity 64-bit. It runs smooth as silk, and it looks beautiful.

Pretty good gameplay, too; certainly improvement over the developer's first game, "Endless Space." In fact, I've halted all KSP while I play Endless Legend endlessly.

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Alshain

Alshain

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Yeah, just because you don't like the games doesn't make the point any less valid. Look, if you want to keep drinking the Kool Aid, go right ahead. If your looking for the 64-bit games, don't filter by Windows, filter by XBOX, because that's basically a 64-bit only PC.

Edited by Alshain
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xtoro

xtoro

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Yeah, just because you don't like the games doesn't make the point any less valid. Look, if you want to keep drinking the Kool Aid, go right ahead. If your looking for the 64-bit games, don't filter by Windows, filter by XBOX, because that's basically a 64-bit only PC.

Err, don't forget about Linux... runs in 64-bit no problems...

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samstarman5

samstarman5

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One thing to remember, is that list of games is pretty much of finished games. Granted what we get with each update is polished, whenever they upgrade the engine, there are going to be additional hiccups to overcome, especially with the change to 64-bit. I am sensing an underlying impatience and/or resentment that Squad isn't delivering on all the goods where 64-bit is concerned. It may not even be intentional.

KSP doesn't need 64-bit. With the current layout, we have been doing just fine. But it should be considered that they are implementing it into the game, and it may take some time for it to run smoother. I, myself, am already seeing an incredible performance increase, and I am fine with that.

Let's be careful with this thread, in that it doesn't turn into something more than it is intended. Too many people tend to enjoy hopping on bandwagons and making them out more than they are meant to be, and it can end up working against us.

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smysha

smysha

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Well guys, I have no idea why you are all complaining abot KSP x64 crashes and mods not working. My x64 version works perfectly. Yup, sometimes I have crashes, but not more often than on x32 version. And even more: finaly I can install all my favorite mods without that ugly "No more memory avalible!!!" loading crash. You guys say that this is some sort of Russian roulette? In that case, I think I won it.

Hopefuly, Squad will update x64 version aswell. Because since x64 was released, I had never returned to x32.

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