Liking .24.2 better than .25

[Roflcopterkklol]

Anyone else?

I am going to build complex designs that take upwards of 5 hours in build times, get to the end and something that would have worked in .24.2 simply will not in .25.

My main beef is the new space plane+ parts, mainly that they removed all the old wings/control surfaces, to make a complex SSTO actually fly i am having to make it near 300 tonnes using these new wings, and the new control surfaces seem to be terrible as well.

My comparison would be between these two planes, One was built for .24.2 using stock parts, one was made for .25 using stock parts,

Both were made to be as maneuverable as i could possibly make them, use the same amount of fuel and weigh nearly the same.

0.25

0.24.2

[bsalis]

The .25 plane does fly more realistically though.

I see other reasons that the .25 plane is less maneuverable, other than less effective control surfaces...

* Control surfaces on the canards is further forward on the .24.2

* CoD looks to be further in front due to the intake placement on the .24.2

* I think the .25 craft has proportionally less lift from control surfaces then non-control lifting surfaces (say, from lifting body parts)

[TheScareCake!]

I suck at planes, but when i do a normal plane, i love it. I started a new career in 0.25 (with some obvious mods like fine print, deadly reentry, NEAR and other)

and i like it more somehow.

[NWDogg]

Planes do seem to be...different, in this build for sure. SP+ parts that easily flew to space in 24.2 are giving me trouble in .25, but it's not worse just something new to get used to. A lot of that trouble also has to do with FAR being slightly tweaked as well. The new features like alt-key turning off surface attach, Z key to full throttle, science experiments in sandbox, internal crew transfer, and the new navball vectors all make .25 worth the upgrade.

Better than all that above, combined, though: KSP 32 bit runs absolutely beautifully in OpenGL now compared to 24.2. I get same performance as DX, and WAY less memory usage which means more and more mods without hitting a memory barrier. Those mods are my bread and butter with KSP...and the ability to freely run as many as I want without even using ATM is just too awesome. Of course, it could just be my system that is running it better, but still...I'll take it.

[WWEdeadman]

I'm currently stil playing 0.24.2 cause I have a modded career going on, and neither do I want to deal with version conflicts on parts of ships/satellites I already got flying through space, nor do I want to update all the mods.

I do, however, want to start playing 0.25 in stock for my Saturday streams next week.

And, from what I've tested, I have no problem with the new plane parts. Quite the contrary, I love them. And the 0.24.2 plane you show in your video has absolutely ridiculous maneuverability. Calling it unrealistic is probably an understatement. And the one from 0.25 still very maneuverable IMO.

[Roflcopterkklol]

The .25 plane does fly more realistically though.

I see other reasons that the .25 plane is less maneuverable, other than less effective control surfaces...

* Control surfaces on the canards is further forward on the .24.2

* CoD looks to be further in front due to the intake placement on the .24.2

* I think the .25 craft has proportionally less lift from control surfaces then non-control lifting surfaces (say, from lifting body parts)

The .24.2 craft has more clipped control surfaces on the inside, the old control surfaces are a lot smaller, could simply put more on the inside of a plane lol.

you are right about the flying more realistically, it is just when you get into large designs like this plane here, the parts nearly weigh more than the lift they generate and you can not clip enough control surfaces inside the craft for it to fly either.

Without the wings it flies with just thrust and SAS control from a vertical take off, there is no reason why wings should make it too heavy to fly, i have made much larger craft that weigh less and fly fine using the old wings, cant do it with these.

heck this has too many wings imo and it still has trouble getting off the runway.

I going to have to use FAR or NEAR to be able to make planes in .25 maybe lol? it works alright with FAR on... which annoys me.

[bsalis]

heck this has too many wings imo and it still has trouble getting off the runway.

Actually, more wings will make it harder to lift-off from the runway. Something I learned back in version .17 or there abouts.

[Roflcopterkklol]

Actually, more wings will make it harder to lift-off from the runway. Something I learned back in version .17 or there abouts.

Being 200 tonnes there is no less wings gets it further sadly lol, i have tried with a hell of a lot less lift and it still does not get it anywhere, with FAR i can get it off the ground no worries it is just stock KSP i am having troubles with it

[Superfluous J]

I've had no real experience with the new wings. Destructible buildings is a wash. The new difficulty settings have made my Kerbal life so much easier though so I voted that I like it better.

[BudgetHedgehog]

Well then, it would appear the problem isn't the parts, it's stocks awful souposphere.

[Jas1126]

I prefer the slightly more realistic .25.

I know this is off topic but... Good lord.. Trying that with real planes would rip them to shreds. KSP is incredibly more forgiving.

[Roflcopterkklol]

I prefer the slightly more realistic .25.

I know this is off topic but... Good lord.. Trying that with real planes would rip them to shreds. KSP is incredibly more forgiving.

oh i know lol, i was going for unrealistic on both of those planes, wanted them to be as maneuverable as you could possibly make a plane and still have it flyable

[Godot]

I definitely prefer 0.25.

Especially as the mod Kerbal Construction Time in connection with 0.25s difficulty settings gives me a totally new feeling of KSP

(forcing me to decide beforehand whether a flight is a pure simulation run (that accomplishes no contracts) or a real run (risking a rocket that took a long time to build and being non revertable)

Can´t do any statements about the plane parts however ... I am more a rocket builder, therefore buiding planes doesn´t have a high priority for me

[nine_iron]

.24 looks like an RC plane...

.25 looks far more "Realistic"

BUT .24 would be more FUN to fly..

Based on those videos alone I would vote .25 as better

[tater]

This poll needed a 4th option, "pretty much the same."

[Overfloater]

Everything handles the same, except for one problem: When attaching a wing to the backside of a wing, it will not add lift :-/

I haven't checked before, but the new wings might be heavier. My heavy (179t) cargo planes have gained 3 extra tonnes. O_O

Other than that, the wings act the same. Just note that the small control surface is a lot less effective than the old one, so I don't use it on big planes.

I can't load any videos right now, but if you have problem lifting,

- check that your landing gear isn't too far behind (should be close to the mass center)

- Concentrate control surfaces far in front, and far behind the mass center.

[Oafman]

It seems to be getting very few mentions, but I am a huge fan of the hold-down-Alt-to-only-connect-to-nodes in the VAB/SPH.

The obvious benefit is adding stuff to cargo bays, but actually you can use this for various situations where you're struggling to get 2 nodes to meet.

A small thing but a really helpful one.

[qromodynmc]

You guys just need to get used to it,Im pretty sure first humans missed their cave when build new homes.

[Alshain]

Both planes fly completely unrealistic. No plane in existence can turn like that.

tl/dl: Needs more FAR.

[TheFlyingPigs]

I would be playing it for hours, if the game didn't glitch on patcher. I opened up the game, started a career, and in my face was two parts of everything. The different cupolas, SAS, everything was screwed. I might download it from the website nextime

[Godot]

I would be playing it for hours, if the game didn't glitch on patcher. I opened up the game, started a career, and in my face was two parts of everything. The different cupolas, SAS, everything was screwed. I might download it from the website nextime

Or you just delete the Squad Folder (and maybe the NASA mission nfolder) in Game Data and start the patcher anew.

[Beachernaut]

The .24.2 craft has more clipped control surfaces on the inside, the old control surfaces are a lot smaller, could simply put more on the inside of a plane lol.

you are right about the flying more realistically, it is just when you get into large designs like this plane here, the parts nearly weigh more than the lift they generate and you can not clip enough control surfaces inside the craft for it to fly either.

Without the wings it flies with just thrust and SAS control from a vertical take off, there is no reason why wings should make it too heavy to fly, i have made much larger craft that weigh less and fly fine using the old wings, cant do it with these.

heck this has too many wings imo and it still has trouble getting off the runway.

I going to have to use FAR or NEAR to be able to make planes in .25 maybe lol? it works alright with FAR on... which annoys me.

http://i.imgur.com/M56GiNk.jpg

Keep in mind that wings also add drag in addition to weight. Yes, each wing piece has more than enough lift to overcome it's weight and drag at a particular speed, but it's diminishing returns. The more weight and drag you add, the more thrust you need to get it off the ground, thus even more weight. I have yet to build a spaceplane quite that big yet in .25, but I have some that are a bit smaller and have not experienced too many issues. IMO the secret to the larger spaceplanes is finding the balance between weight, drag, wing area, and thrust. Simply spamming wing pieces and control surfaces is not the fix it used to be.

[Pecan]

Yeaahhhh! 0.25 Changelog (readme.txt in the install folder), with annotations:

• Destructible Facilties at KSC: Even gentle landings with heavy vehicles make the launchpad/runway explode. A completely negative 'feature' except ...
  
• Added a new Context Menu to Facilities at KSC which show extra info...: Is quite nice.
  
• New Explosion Particle and Sound FX: *sigh*, yeah ok, if you must.
  
• New Difficulty Options Menu: not applicable in sandbox.
  
• Administration Facility: not applicable in sandbox.
  
• Strategies: not applicable in sandbox.
  
• Crew Transfer: Hooray!
  
• Spaceplane Parts Overhaul: Well, you know, there's good and bad in there but on the whole it's an improvement.
  
• KSC Vessel Markers: Oooh, cool :-)
  
• NavBall Vectors: Very nice.
  
• Added ... the Learstar A1: I LOL'd, then deleted it along with all the other stock craft I can't hide in sandbox.
  
• MapView Filtering state is now persistent: Excellent.
  
• Added a Full Throttle Key (Z): Even more use than I expected. I'm 'blipping' the throttle full/min to maintain Ap during launch-cruise.
  
• New "Space Center" Button: That's really handy too.
  
• Added MonoProp gauge to OMS engines: Still haven't had any need for OMS engines so, ok.
  
• Added 'Return to Editor' buttons: Not seen, presumably - not applicable in sandbox.
  
• VAB and SPH scenes now show visible KSC facilities in their current states (as in destroyed): *sigh* again.
  
• Hold ModKey to override surface attachment: Not yet used, but nice.
  
• Crew Management: not applicable in sandbox.
  
• Scenery: Er, right, "worldspace triplanar mapping", got it.
  
• R&D: not applicable in sandbox ... but wait "Science Results in Sandbox Mode"! Excellent, it is quite fun, even if it's pointless :-)
  
• Misc: Probably nice for those that know what it means.
  
• Bug Fixes and Tweaks: Can't complain about any of that. Some are more important or useful than others of course and it seems a shame to pass-off such a lot of work with a little comment, so I'll make it a good one - Thanks Squad.
  

Seem to be more things I like than not, so that's good, but mostly a, 'yeah alright' update. Not every release can be a spectacular.

[AlternNocturn]

More fun, because I'm confused as to how you can have less when you have so much more to do.

[Redhotita1]

0.24.2 for the simple reason that Realism Overhaul it's not updated yet and because FAR for 0.24.2 supports 64bits.