Seriously? over 30 KSC biomes?

[SkyRex94]

I really don't like the current clickfest science system and made several suggestions to improve it and make it more explorationary. And I hope, since squad adds biomes to everywhere in (0.26) 0.90 they might improve and revise the Science system and the Tech Tree in the same run.

But especially at KSC there are waay too many biomes right now. I stopped counting at 30. And even in hard mode with 60% Science you'll get probably around 1000 Science points from KSC alone.

I mean really Squad: What exactly was the point of this? There is no scientific gain researching the RoundVABTank after researching the RoundSPHTank ?! Or researching a Flag Pole?!

Anybody feel the same? I don't see any reason why they cluttered even more biomes at KSC. Over 30! 30!!!!

[Franklin]

I don't know if too many places to do science is an issue so much as science not being fun to do.

[worir4]

I know what you mean. You can unlock the tech tree without leaving the Kerbin system. There needs to be another incentive to go to other planets. They are bringing in resources so that's a good thing.

[NFUN]

I think the many KSC biomes might have something to do with how destructible buildings were added, but I pulled that out of my arse.

[problemecium]

I think those were meant to be more of an Easter egg than a serious data source. After all, my drive all over KSC with a pile of scientific instruments only got me like 15 points (although I may be able to do better if I try again). Perhaps SQUAD wants to have a bunch of little mini-biomes for people to discover as they explore the game to make them feel like they accomplished something.

[Captain Vlad]

I know what you mean. You can unlock the tech tree without leaving the Kerbin system. There needs to be another incentive to go to other planets. They are bringing in resources so that's a good thing.

I would really dislike a reduction in Kerbin biomes as in my career mode game I found exploring the various areas, getting to them, successfully landing, etc, a different but still welcome challenge than exploring the Mun or Minmus. We have the ability to build atmospheric craft in KSC, and taking away the incentive to go to the many different places on Kerbin where new science is available would remove the incentive to explore the planet itself as well as the other portions of the solar system.

I have no particular objection, at least in theory, to a change in the WAY you acquire science points, if a more enjoyable method were proposed. That said, I honestly don't find the current way tedious or fun-dampening.

[prophet_01]

Yeah I know what you mean... the difficulty settings should cover more than the current options an sliders. Something that turns off that kind of stuff. I don't want like 50 boxes to check, but the game has too many areas that are not covered yet. The sliders are nice but affecting everything by the same amount does not work that great

Edited October 16, 2014 by prophet_01

[brdavis]

I don't know if too many places to do science is an issue so much as science not being fun to do.

Agreed. It feels like mining, because it rapidly becomes "do the same thing over and over". Personally I added KAS, and within a couple days was using it not for its intended purpose (because… well, who uses something for it's intended purpose in KSP?), but as 'role playing' for setting up ALSEP's for Munar missions. This gave the mission something to do, and the Kerbal something to do (build it piece by piece from the KAS-carried parts), and provided something to "see" when going back to a previous landing site. As much as I love KAS, it may not be part of stock… but allowing the design and deployment of *something* seems like a good idea. Long-term stations providing special science by *virtue* of being long-term? Or if 0.90.0 will add some form of resource scanning, science for complete mapping of a planet ("hey, I actually have to think about the orbit of this, not *just* spam back science when a contract requests it").

[JayKay]

Completionists will have a nervous breakdown if there are hundreds of biomes in the completed game.

[Franklin]

Agreed. It feels like mining, because it rapidly becomes "do the same thing over and over".

I wouldn't even mind a little repetition if it was something. A mini-game, a multi-step engagement, something. But as it is it does just amount to: move to new spot, right click part, wait for animation, save, repeat.

[juanml82]

The thing is, all those biomes net very little science. And, unless you want to walk to each one of them at 4x speed, you'll probably want a rover to harvest them for science. And, by the time you have rover wheels, the science you can get by spending 10 minutes driving through the KSC is probably not worth it. You can get a lot more with a single Fine Print contract.

I know what you mean. You can unlock the tech tree without leaving the Kerbin system. There needs to be another incentive to go to other planets. They are bringing in resources so that's a good thing.

People went to other planets before science was introduced. It's a sandbox game, I don't think KSP is about "complete the tech tree = finish the game". And, while each player will play differently, an incomplete tech tree might not be a fun way to do missions. You can go to other planets without unlocking all techs and even do it in a comfortable way. But I've played at hard and made Mun landings before unlocking ladders. At some point, for me, doing repetitive missions (land at the Mun, land at Minmus) with incomplete spaceships becomes less fun. I personally rather go to Duna with nukes, senior docking ports, all the science modules and aerospikes just to plant the flag than go with only a wobbly standard docking port and riding on LV-909s so I can unlock the senior docking ports one game year after departure.

[Captain Vlad]

I wouldn't even mind a little repetition if it was something. A mini-game, a multi-step engagement, something. But as it is it does just amount to: move to new spot, right click part, wait for animation, save, repeat.

I've always wished that info sheets on different portions of each of Kerbin, the Mun and Minmus' started out basically blank and 'filled in' the more biomes you sampled in different ways. I leave out the other planets as they don't have individual biomes yet.

I don't really like the idea of 'mini-games', but I do like the idea of some kind of 'multi-step engagement', as you said, even if it's just making sure that the sensor has enough power for a certain length of time and isn't removed from the environment being sampled.

[Franklin]

Exactly. Make science science-y, not collection-y. I should feel like I'm running tests in different environments, not picking up quest items found in the grass, which is what science is now.

[Captain Vlad]

Exactly. Make science science-y, not collection-y. I should feel like I'm running tests in different environments, not picking up quest items found in the grass, which is what science is now.

I don't know. I've been looking for that +3 Rocket Booster of Ascension since I started the game, so it can provide some incentive.

I'm joking, I'm joking, Jesus, put down the gun.

[Godot]

Considering how much science you get with contracts and the outsourced science strategy, the science you get from KSC is negilible.

It´s only a problem for completionists ... and honestly, that is their own problem then ... noone forces you to explore every single Biome

[Higgs]

@skyrex94 i dont think there are enough biomes honestly. Look at earth, there are like 6-15 major biomes depending who you ask and many more minor ones. Given that i think 30 on kerbin is a nice compromise

[CaptRobau]

Yeah I know what you mean... the difficulty settings should cover more than the current options an sliders. Something that turns off that kind of stuff. I don't want like 50 boxes to check, but the game has too many areas that are not covered yet. The sliders are nice but affecting everything by the same amount does not work that great

It's worth 15 science points. You can get that on your first launch. Just ignore it and treat it like the optional easter egg that it is.

[Superfluous J]

Science gathering isn't so bad when you install ScienceAlert and ScienceContainers (and a modman config to give command pods the "collect all science here" thing.

The worst part of science is the clicking and EVAing around to gather crap. These two mods fix both of those.

Also, I use the KSC biomes as targets on returns. Try to nail a landing on top of the VAB from orbit so you can get a couple extra science points. That there IS added gameplay.

[djnattyd]

I didn't even know the tanks had biomes.

[biohazard15]

I know what you mean. You can unlock the tech tree without leaving the Kerbin system. There needs to be another incentive to go to other planets. They are bringing in resources so that's a good thing.

You can actually unlock the tech tree without even leaving LKO. And I don't remember when you get access to the testing contracts - if you can get them without completing "Get to space" and "Achieve orbit" contracts, then you can complete it even without leaving Kerbin itself.

[Sirrobert]

If you don't like going around each off these biomes, then DON'T

It's not like you need the science. If you're just doing it to mindlessly complete everything, then yes, you'll have to mindlessly do it

[metaphor]

Completionists will have a nervous breakdown if there are hundreds of biomes in the completed game.

The way science works now already doesn't appeal to completionists, since on most experiments you don't get 100% science the first time, so you have to redo it multiple times, and there's always that 0.2% left.

[kinnison]

I really don't like the Kerbal Science. That is the science on the planet. Especially with all the Biomes and lack of points. It is not much better when Minmus and Mun are the only other bodies with multiple Biomes. Too often i just get stuck farming the science points before even an interplanetary launch window opens.

And there really is no point in sending probes, when you can get more science with manned missions. Not to mention the probe cores are so much further down the tech tree.

[Francois424]

If you don't like going around each off these biomes, then DON'T

It's not like you need the science. If you're just doing it to mindlessly complete everything, then yes, you'll have to mindlessly do it

Haha. I was thinking the same thing. It's fun tho to run science for the heck of it and notice it... I was like... what what ? Biomes here ? Oh another there... it's all over the place. Nice touch.

The way science works now already doesn't appeal to completionists, since on most experiments you don't get 100% science the first time, so you have to redo it multiple times, and there's always that 0.2% left.

Well If I run into something I didn't complete, I'll do it even or 0.2% most of the time I have the lab anyways so it's trivial to finish

[Levelord]

I would really dislike a reduction in Kerbin biomes as in my career mode game I found exploring the various areas, getting to them, successfully landing, etc, a different but still welcome challenge than exploring the Mun or Minmus. We have the ability to build atmospheric craft in KSC, and taking away the incentive to go to the many different places on Kerbin where new science is available would remove the incentive to explore the planet itself as well as the other portions of the solar system.

I have no particular objection, at least in theory, to a change in the WAY you acquire science points, if a more enjoyable method were proposed. That said, I honestly don't find the current way tedious or fun-dampening.

People had incentive to visit other planets even before science gathering was implemented into the game. KSP is about exploration and this is why a lot of people still stick to sandbox.