Realism Overhaul Discussion Thread

[MissMolly]

16 hours ago, Phineas Freak said:

@MissMollynon - RO for even the stock parts? Something is really wrong here. Did you check the installation paths?

Also, CrossfeedEnabler is deprecated and it's functionality is now included in stock KSP, I would suggest removing it.

@Phineas Freak I don't have any stock parts, and very few parts that don't say non RO. I have gone thoutgh the file path and every thing loom right. I'll take another look when I get home. I did get my tech tree to work other then there's no RO parts like the one 20xray probe part i think thtats what it's called.  So i checked the folder paths and there all correct.

So i tried removing any thing that did not need to be in the gamedata folder and it still has not changed play in sandbox 

this is what i though needed to be in there https://www.dropbox.com/s/ecq2od8q4vk3lgn/IMAG0002.jpg?dl=0

so i went ahead and pulled every thing out and just had MM xx16 RO,RP-O  in sand box i got only stock was there nothing else thats needed?

Edited January 9, 2016 by MissMolly

[NathanKell]

Did you download an RP-0 release, or did you just download the repository zip or a source zip? Verify that there is a Tree.cfg file inside the RP-0 folder in GameData.

I don't see RP-0 there in the screenshot...

[MissMolly]

opps sorry wrong  Screen shot 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/k17clsmyxlxd1ms/Screen%20Shot%202016-01-08%20at%205.47.44%20PM.png?dl=0

[NathanKell]

You're lacking SXT. RP-0 requires it.

Also please verify you have a Tree.cfg file as I mentioned. Lacking it would explain the issue.

[MissMolly]

14 hours ago, NathanKell said:

You're lacking SXT. RP-0 requires it.

Also please verify you have a Tree.cfg file as I mentioned. Lacking it would explain the issue.

ok so i found SXT and its working. the tech tree has three solid green tabs, there is tech in them but can't see them till i unlock them.

but the contracts are still off so many of them that i can not do. don't have the tech for them nor are there the ones you get at the start like  breached the Karman line or even first flight, and the like. i had to remove Ven Sock Revamp as my ram hit 3.1g and well boom!!

Contracts: https://www.dropbox.com/s/khyblyw819vnzwm/IMAG0012.jpg?dl=0

Tree: https://www.dropbox.com/s/0hmx890poebivke/IMAG0013.jpg?dl=0

log: https://www.dropbox.com/s/n1ke0esl4he5cvt/Player%20copy.log?dl=0

Edited January 9, 2016 by MissMolly

[cytosine]

Why the dog-leg and not a 'hockey-stick'?

My Atlas-Agena is really struggling to get a tiny com-sat into an equatorial geo-sync orbit from KSC.  Ferram suggests a dog-leg, but what about driving south-ish, then hanging a left at the equator?  Wouldn't a 'hockey-stick' maneuver be more efficient than dog-leg or is this untrue because the atmosphere is denser (like me) near ground?

*hockey-stick = I don't know what to call it, so I'm making it up....    Is there an 'official' term for something like this?

Is 'pork-chop' the right term?

 

-Cyto!

 

Edited January 9, 2016 by cytosine
Inaccuracy of the tongue...

[NathanKell]

@MissMolly Ah I also missed you didn't have Contract Configurator installed. And CommunityTechTree. Please, please, go carefully through the list of Required and (heavily) Recommended mods for RO and RP-0 and ensure you have all of them. If in doubt I highly recommend using CKAN as it will avoid exactly this sort of situation.

I would suggest removing one of your part packs and putting VSR back--as I said, RO and RP-0 will not play right without it.

 

@cytosine I thought that's what a dogleg was.

[cytosine]

1 hour ago, NathanKell said:

 

@cytosine I thought that's what a dogleg was.

Err, maybe I'm just confused.  In the example of the ISS, the picture from one of Ferrams links seems as if the rocket starts in a  parallel direction as the target orbit, but then veers toward the ISS orbit, then later turning again to match the parallel ISS orbit.  I'm just wondering why the rocket wouldn't start by launching East, then make a single turn when it meets the targets parallel orbit...?

So for my equatorial need, I would think it would be more efficient to launch at 135 degrees, then half-way up turn to 90.

Thanks!

Edited January 9, 2016 by cytosine
Added stuff.

[NathanKell]

Ah. Because you're trying to minimize delta V expended, and thus you minimize steering losses. You need to get correct as soon as possible, and minimize the amount of time you're burning in the wrong direction. Burning to the equator and then burning at 90 is like burning up and then burning right rather than performing a gravity turn.

[MissMolly]

@NathanKell @Phineas Freak i Must apologize for the unneeded annoyances. i totally miss the RP-O recommend and highly recommend parts after get RP-O. 

And thank you both very much for your help and your patience with me, i can only imagine how annoying i must of been. 

and i did find that little AutoPruner script it helped nicely. 

[Phineas Freak]

@MissMollyno problem! And do not feel bad about it!

[cytosine]

4 hours ago, NathanKell said:

Ah. Because you're trying to minimize delta V expended, and thus you minimize steering losses. You need to get correct as soon as possible, and minimize the amount of time you're burning in the wrong direction. Burning to the equator and then burning at 90 is like burning up and then burning right rather than performing a gravity turn.

Ok, so I think I understand my confusion now.  I don't own a dog so that other picture was confusing me with the shape of a rabbit-leg. 

A dog-leg maneuver is more like this:

 

Edited January 10, 2016 by cytosine
Finally understand!!! :)

[NathanKell]

@MissMolly apologies if I sounded annoyed! I'm not! I was just trying to be very clear. (And, err, I guess I often sound like that.)

Further, RO/RP-0 *is* hard to install. That is literally the reaosn CKAN was created; @pjf didn't want to do it manually.

And then it turned into this:

https://xkcd.com/1319/

[MissMolly]

4 hours ago, NathanKell said:

@MissMolly apologies if I sounded annoyed! I'm not! I was just trying to be very clear. (And, err, I guess I often sound like that.)

Further, RO/RP-0 *is* hard to install. That is literally the reaosn CKAN was created; @pjf didn't want to do it manually.

And then it turned into this:

https://xkcd.com/1319/

@NathanKelloh no you we'r fine, i was getting frustrated with myself. as well i got liquidy with ckan so i had to do it by hand took some time and i miss a bunch and had to bug you and get you to hold my hand when i should of taken my time looking through all your notes. so far today was good still having ram problems but not much more i can do.. So Again thank you very much for all your help and for the awesome mod/s. I can't wait till i get my ships up in orbit.

[Laie]

@cytosine: a dogleg is good for a *minor* correction during launch, as in your "launching to the ISS" example.

In order to get into an equatorial orbit, you first have to cross/touch the equator, and that's way to the south from the Florida launch site. It's better to launch due east into a standard low 28-degree orbit, then combine plane change and transfer burn. You may shave off a degree or three from your initial inclination during launch, but that's about it (and probably not worth the hassle). Most of your inclination change will have to happen at the AN/DN. Schematic:

It's not obvious from the perspective, but deltaVP already includes a few degrees of plane change. It's been while since I last did this, but IIRC it took me about 4km/s in order to get from 28°LEO to 0°GEO.

Edited January 10, 2016 by Laie

[MissMolly]

@laie do you know if there more info on changing orbit and such? I'm just starting to play with RSS/RO and having to unlearn what iv leaned from playing stock.

[cytosine]

Thanks all, I finally got my tiny little ComSat into equatorial Geo from KSC.  Whoever said "space is hard" was *not* kidding.... 

[Phineas Freak]

@MissMollysome useful (i think) points:

1. When launching a payload, always select the launch site that is closer to the final orbit. For example, if you want to reach GEO, it is better to use Kourou instead of Plesetsk.

2. For launch steeling ("gravity turn"), a rule of thumb is to have a pitch angle of ~45 degrees when reaching a surface speed of 1 km/s with. After that, steer as required.

3. Try to correct the trajectory inclination either as soon as you leave the launch pad or by launching to a high apoapsis (higher than the final one) and correcting it there.

4. Drop the fairings as soon as you can. Minimum height is ~90 km for sensitive payloads, lower for the more rugged.

5. You do not need a TWR higher than 1 for the upper stage (assuming a two - stage launch vehicle). Values ranging from 0.1 to 0.8 will do the job.

6. Do not be afraid of passing apoapsis while trying to make orbit. Most real - life rockets do it.

7. Most engines only have 1 or limited ignitions and do not throttle. Try to complete a stable orbit even if it is not the correct one (you can fix it later).

Of course this is not a complete list. Also, play in sandbox mode for a while to get the overall handle of RSS.

[Laie]

12 hours ago, MissMolly said:

@laie do you know if there more info on changing orbit and such? I'm just starting to play with RSS/RO and having to unlearn what iv leaned from playing stock.

 

In the stock game, the space center sits at the equator. So just launching due east will get you into an equatorial orbit; and the Mun also sits in an equatorial orbit, so getting from the launchpad to the Mun is pretty straightforward, while in RSS it's all out of whack, forcing you to deal with plane changes and launching into particular planes.

So RSS makes you solve problems you don't encounter in stock. However, I don't think there's much to unlearn. When it comes to orbital mechanics, what works in stock also works in RSS.

As a practical matter: MJ (or KER) can display relative inclination; and if you want to get into an "unknown" orbit, like the first launch to GEO, I recommend using hyperedit to place something into the desired plane so you have an object you can use as target, and get the AN/DN displayed in map view.

[MissMolly]

9 hours ago, Phineas Freak said:

@MissMollysome useful (i think) points:

1. When launching a payload, always select the launch site that is closer to the final orbit. For example, if you want to reach GEO, it is better to use Kourou instead of Plesetsk.

2. For launch steeling ("gravity turn"), a rule of thumb is to have a pitch angle of ~45 degrees when reaching a surface speed of 1 km/s with. After that, steer as required.

3. Try to correct the trajectory inclination either as soon as you leave the launch pad or by launching to a high apoapsis (higher than the final one) and correcting it there.

4. Drop the fairings as soon as you can. Minimum height is ~90 km for sensitive payloads, lower for the more rugged.

5. You do not need a TWR higher than 1 for the upper stage (assuming a two - stage launch vehicle). Values ranging from 0.1 to 0.8 will do the job.

6. Do not be afraid of passing apoapsis while trying to make orbit. Most real - life rockets do it.

7. Most engines only have 1 or limited ignitions and do not throttle. Try to complete a stable orbit even if it is not the correct one (you can fix it later).

Of course this is not a complete list. Also, play in sandbox mode for a while to get the overall handle of RSS.

@Phineas Freak thanks for the info, just one thing i thought i only want a 85º pitch and let gravity do the rest. Also I'm still get vapour in the lines when i try to hit the second stage, iv tried all morning with no luck. i can get it to work in sims but as soon as i do a real launch I'm hopped. 

Craft: https://www.dropbox.com/s/dyesmbtamiclv88/Sound%20Braker%20MKI.craft?dl=0

9 hours ago, Laie said:

 

In the stock game, the space center sits at the equator. So just launching due east will get you into an equatorial orbit; and the Mun also sits in an equatorial orbit, so getting from the launchpad to the Mun is pretty straightforward, while in RSS it's all out of whack, forcing you to deal with plane changes and launching into particular planes.

So RSS makes you solve problems you don't encounter in stock. However, I don't think there's much to unlearn. When it comes to orbital mechanics, what works in stock also works in RSS.

As a practical matter: MJ (or KER) can display relative inclination; and if you want to get into an "unknown" orbit, like the first launch to GEO, I recommend using hyperedit to place something into the desired plane so you have an object you can use as target, and get the AN/DN displayed in map view.

@Laie thanks i did not think of using hyper edit, good idea at least till i get the hang of it..

[gonzo98x]

Can anyone point me to a resource for building a shuttle in RO?

I am using RO/RP-0 and am recreating all US satellite launches with FASA/US-Probes pack/Procedural parts. I just finished the thirty or so lunches up through the 1970's. I have recreated so many rockets. I love this game and these mods. (@Nathankell I owe you so many beers) So now I am up to the 80's which means launching probes from the Shuttle. Problem is the MK-3 Cabin and bay look good but the Big-s Delta wings and tail shrunk (weren't increased in size?) They look so tiny on the body of the MK-3. I have spent the last 3-4 days trying different ideas and mods but nothing works. An for some reason when I download mods like B9Spaceplane wings they show up miniaturized as well.

 

I have tried using the SSP mod with minor success but that mod is still very heavy into development and has issues of its own. Though it looks amazing.

 

Thanks in advance.

[MissMolly]

@gonzo98x have you tried Ferram_Aerospace_Research theres a shuttle included in the D/L at https://kerbalstuff.com. 

[NathanKell]

@gonzo98x your best bet is using B9 Proc Wings (they're a recommended addition for RP-0, just one tiny step down from utterly required). Use the spaceplane version of the wings, they unlock in, um, Practical Spaceplanes I think? Once you place the wing, hover over it and press J, and then you can use the interface to resize it.

[MissMolly]

Well i finally make it first Telsat in an almost perfect Geostationary with just over 5º inclination , have to say what a pain it was but worth it in the end..

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1bmytz67k3nj79f/screenshot3.png?dl=0

[NathanKell]

@MissMolly congrats!