[1.12.x] Alcubierre Warp Drive (Stand-alone)

[capi3101]

1 minute ago, helaeon said:

That sounds almost exactly as I intended. Maybe the 3.75 should be more power needy, but stock is massively nerfed energy wise anyway so I think it's okay.

I have yet to get the 3.75 out and fiddle around with it, but with the 2.5 meter drive I notice an appreciable but acceptable consumption of xenon, exotic matter and fuel (for the Fuel Cell Arrays) as I travel along. I have to refuel the craft every time I return to Kerbin, which I see nothing wrong with having to do.

2 minutes ago, helaeon said:

Angular momentum mode is supposed to conserve h (direction and magnitude). Direction of velocity vector remains unchanged.

Ah, okay. So the trick there would be to hit the right h value for the desired orbital altitude around the target body. I've been trying to wrap my head around how to navigate in that mode...it would almost have to be the maneuver where you're travelling directly towards/away from the target body to gain/lose the speed you need, wouldn't it? Definitely harder to calculate that value on the fly

2 minutes ago, helaeon said:

Happy you're enjoying the changes. I think it's much better than it was personally.

I certainly agree.

[helaeon]

@capi3101 I don't always fly warp but when I do, I fly exclusively in AM mode... I take advantage of the fact that in AM mode gravitational forces still affect  your ship and the warp bubble and that gravitational assists work properly.

So yes, I do the warp towards-away maneuver and I fly it intuitively in map mode rather than calculating a value or doing some complicated maneuver. The plug in uses the state vectors pos and vel and sets the velocity vector's magnitude directly.

I go to my destination and make the adjustments needed upon arrival so I end up in an acceptable orbit rather than having one in mind. In OPM I will sometimes stage the journey like go out to Jool and circularize there (so I can steal some orbital energy from Jool), then the adjustments at Neidon or Sarnus are not so extreme provided Jool isn't on the opposite side of Kerbol. Sometimes I will also warp somewhere that it will quickly change the direction of my velocity vector so it is more alike to the planetary body I am travelling to. This is usually only really worth it when the destination is opposite my origin. I do this by making the orbit a very narrow ellipse then hitting warp again once I've turned appropriately. When warping inside systems like the gas giants where orbits aren't extremely long I'll wait until I'm sitting parallel to my target body then warp.

[Jetski]

This mod doesn't appear to work with a Linux install running Galileo's Planet Pack.  Everything loads fine, but when I hit Activate Engine the bubble is black and the ship doesn't move.  Plenty of electricity, Exotic Matter, and well outside of gravity wells.  Both AM and Vel modes.

screenshot

Edited December 18, 2017 by Jetski

[Space Kadet]

try going to a higher altitude and trying again, it could be you are too deep in the gravity well. other option would be throttling up (sorry if this is daft but your throttle was nill in the pic)

[helaeon]

@Jetski In the screenshot you're showing no electric charge available to the engine. You're also not using the latest dev version from github (either mine or roverdude's should work).

Should look something like this http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1235271551

[capi3101]

15 hours ago, Jetski said:

This mod doesn't appear to work with a Linux install running Galileo's Planet Pack.  Everything loads fine, but when I hit Activate Engine the bubble is black and the ship doesn't move.  Plenty of electricity, Exotic Matter, and well outside of gravity wells.  Both AM and Vel modes.

screenshot

 

10 hours ago, helaeon said:

@Jetski In the screenshot you're showing no electric charge available to the engine. You're also not using the latest dev version from github (either mine or roverdude's should work).

Should look something like this http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1235271551

 

I'll second the observation that the craft isn't showing electrical charge in the staging. What does your resource window look like? It only takes 3-4 RTGs to power the drive in the current version; it's also been established that angular momentum mode isn't working properly in the current version, but is working in the dev version (FYI note for the dev version - resource depletion has been increased; your 2.5 m engine will require 6 activated Fuel Cell Arrays to maintain power to the drive. You might pack an RTG or two to maintain power to the craft while the drive isn't running; just a suggestion.)

Edited December 18, 2017 by capi3101

[The man on eloo]

I cant seem to get it to work properly. I'm using plenty amounts of electric charge but I cant seem to make exotic matter. And when it said it needed the regolith mod do you really need it because I cant seem to find Regolith mod.

[RoverDude]

OP is out of date as Regolith is stock.  Are you trying to make Exotic Matter while warping, or while standing still?

[capi3101]

4 hours ago, The man on eloo said:

I cant seem to get it to work properly. I'm using plenty amounts of electric charge but I cant seem to make exotic matter.

Can you give us a breakdown of what you've got on your craft that generates electricity? "Plenty" is a tad vague.

Also, as @RoverDude hinted, you do not want to be trying to generate exotic matter while operating the drive.

[helaeon]

Also... exotic matter is supposed to be generated extremely slowly. It should burn down all of the electric charge (for most ships) and then generate exotic matter based on the electrical production rate alone.

[The man on eloo]

17 hours ago, capi3101 said:

Can you give us a breakdown of what you've got on your craft that generates electricity? "Plenty" is a tad vague.

Also, as @RoverDude hinted, you do not want to be trying to generate exotic matter while operating the drive.

I'm using about 15-30 on my ship of the B-12K rechargeable battery tank from the near future electrics mod, 5 fuel cell arrays, and some battery packs.

 

16 hours ago, helaeon said:

Also... exotic matter is supposed to be generated extremely slowly. It should burn down all of the electric charge (for most ships) and then generate exotic matter based on the electrical production rate alone.

Ok that's why it won't work most likely. I've just started exotic matter right away and just assumed that it would work. I'm going to test that out.

 

EDIT: ok I just tested it out and it says exotic matter full but it still wont allow me to start the engine.

[capi3101]

2 hours ago, The man on eloo said:

I'm using about 15-30 on my ship of the B-12K rechargeable battery tank from the near future electrics mod, 5 fuel cell arrays, and some battery packs.

Okay...can you give me the stats on the B-12K? Near Future Electrics is not a mod I use, so I'm not familiar with it (and the wiki lacks information about it). How does it recharge?

My instinct is to say you've got great electrical charge storage. What about electrical charge generation? You know, reactors, RTGs, solar panels, etc.

[The man on eloo]

4 hours ago, capi3101 said:

Okay...can you give me the stats on the B-12K? Near Future Electrics is not a mod I use, so I'm not familiar with it (and the wiki lacks information about it). How does it recharge?

My instinct is to say you've got great electrical charge storage. What about electrical charge generation? You know, reactors, RTGs, solar panels, etc.

I don't have any sort of electrical generation but I have electric charge. Do I need electrical generation and not charge?

[helaeon]

@The man on eloo and everyone else....
The release version is broken. That's version 7.0.0. If you're using the current official release... I can't really help you because likely it's caused by one of many problems I fixed when I made version 8.
Here is the link to my git repo. Use what's in the "For_release" folder and install like normal. https://github.com/helaeon/WarpDrive, you can also use https://github.com/BobPalmer/WarpDrive
If your warp part menu doesn't look like this when the drive is activated  http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1235271551 (same screenshot as above) you're on an old or improperly installed version.

If you have FarFutureTechnologies, NearFutureElectrical, KolonyTools (USI-MKS mostly), or DSEV installed you are under the advanced electricals rules. That makes these warp drives use something like 25x the electricity vs stock. You will need a big fission or fusion reactor - this is intended. You're going to want to generate the power for the warp drive on demand. Unless you have tens of millions of ec of battery storage you're going to have a bad time if you're not feeding the warp drive on the fly.

[Jesusthebird]

Can I use multiple warp drives to extend the range of the bubble? I want to put some of these on a large space vessel. Large like b9's hx1 parts

At the moment only a quarter of the ship fits inside the bubble.

[Space Kadet]

4 hours ago, Jesusthebird said:

Can I use multiple warp drives to extend the range of the bubble? I want to put some of these on a large space vessel. Large like b9's hx1 parts

At the moment only a quarter of the ship fits inside the bubble.

nope, but open a new sand box mod and try it, its hilarious how it falls apart! 

[RoverDude]

15 hours ago, The man on eloo said:

I don't have any sort of electrical generation but I have electric charge. Do I need electrical generation and not charge?

Yeah that might help

[The man on eloo]

15 hours ago, helaeon said:

@The man on eloo and everyone else....
The release version is broken. That's version 7.0.0. If you're using the current official release... I can't really help you because likely it's caused by one of many problems I fixed when I made version 8.
Here is the link to my git repo. Use what's in the "For_release" folder and install like normal. https://github.com/helaeon/WarpDrive, you can also use https://github.com/BobPalmer/WarpDrive
If your warp part menu doesn't look like this when the drive is activated  http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1235271551 (same screenshot as above) you're on an old or improperly installed version.

If you have FarFutureTechnologies, NearFutureElectrical, KolonyTools (USI-MKS mostly), or DSEV installed you are under the advanced electricals rules. That makes these warp drives use something like 25x the electricity vs stock. You will need a big fission or fusion reactor - this is intended. You're going to want to generate the power for the warp drive on demand. Unless you have tens of millions of ec of battery storage you're going to have a bad time if you're not feeding the warp drive on the fly.

Ok I just installed the second one and it isn't inside my game anymore. can you give me a run-down of the install process?

[capi3101]

17 hours ago, The man on eloo said:

I don't have any sort of electrical generation but I have electric charge. Do I need electrical generation and not charge?

Yeah. The exotic matter generator requires 10,000 units of electrical charge per second input to output 1 unit of exotic matter per second. It'll drain your electrical storage really fast.

So what likely has happened is that you fired up the generator and it sucked your electricity bone dry. Electrical charge is also required for the drive, but since you have none left, the drive will be non-operational.

Not all is necessarily lost if you've still got Exotic Matter and Xenon - the situation can be rectified but you'll need KAS/KIS to do it. Here's what you do:

1. Launch a parts delivery craft to your warp ship. You're hauling up four PB-NUK RTGs and eight Gigantor Solar Panels. Take an engineer and don't forget the KAS screwdriver. A Pegasus ladder or two will also help matters.
2. Have your engineer attach the electrical generators (the RTGs and Gigantors) to the warp ship. The ladders are there to give her something to hang on to while she does the work.
   1. Alternatively, you could just have the engineer attach a docking port (any size) to the warp ship, and then dock a module with the generators installed.
3. Once it's attached, warp to a relatively low altitude over Kerbol. 1.6 Gm (1,640,000 km) should do the trick.
4. Make sure all eight Gigantors are pointed at Kerbol. The flow reading should optimally be 1250 or greater.
5. Shut off the warp and activate the exotic matter generator. 
6. Profit.

Now, this is assuming you're using the release version. If you're using the development version, replace "RTGs" with "Fuel Cell Arrays". You also want to be careful about warping towards Kerbol not to get closer than 261,600 km; if you do, the failsafe kicks in and the drive won't activate.

 

Come to think of it, what's your current altitude? Current version you have to be at least 600 km over Kerbin or you're below failsafe. Dev version the distance is 300 km, but the failsafe is still there.

[helaeon]

@The man on eloo installing things from github (not from the releases tab) you clone repository zip - it's a big green button on the right about the middle of the screen, find the gamedata folder in the for-release folder, and merge like normal.
You should then have /GameData/UmbraSpaceIndustries/WarpDrive/

[Jesusthebird]

Just making sure...mass doesnt really play a role once youre in orbit right?? My Dv is pretty low even tho i have about 250K EC and about 500K xenon.kerbol engineer shows only about 800Dv. Can i assume its calculating dv from the xenon?

[helaeon]

@Jesusthebird Probably. We use the xenon thruster at a piddly piddly thrust output to allow throttle control. DV should be vanishingly close to zero due to the new changes. I made the thrust .001 kN and the ISP is 1 so it would show no or very little delta-V.

Also check how your staging is set up. I think both KER and Mechjeb show your current stage not necessarily activated engines. And even though it isn't documented... weird stuff happens when you use your normal engines with the warp engine - another reason I made the thrust tinier.

[Jesusthebird]

1 hour ago, helaeon said:

@Jesusthebird Probably. We use the xenon thruster at a piddly piddly thrust output to allow throttle control. DV should be vanishingly close to zero due to the new changes. I made the thrust .001 kN and the ISP is 1 so it would show no or very little delta-V.

Also check how your staging is set up. I think both KER and Mechjeb show your current stage not necessarily activated engines. And even though it isn't documented... weird stuff happens when you use your normal engines with the warp engine - another reason I made the thrust tinier.

I havnt checked staging yet. But with those resources i should be able to go anywhere basically. 800dv would get me almost to mun. I guess im just confused on how to know how far i can travel. Ker or any other plugin readout like it goes off thrust and related factors. Since the warp drive works different. Those dont help much.

 

Edit: maybe its the limited ec?? I accidently deleted my craft so... gotta redo and see if thats whats wrong. I have plenty of solar panels...but 250k ec prolly isnt that much for the warp drive in operation..

Edited December 28, 2017 by Jesusthebird

[helaeon]

@Jesusthebird It really could give you a silly number now that I think about it. Delta-V will always work on your most limited fuel, and I guess I could see how if you had a ton of everything it might come up with a big number.
Then again though... should be a thrust of .001 and ISP of 1, that is unless you're on an old version. I know for my use I ignore that delta-v number and set up my ship such that I'm getting a read-out for my reaction mass propulsion. 

[capi3101]

@Jesusthebird Mass (and subsequently delta-V) doesn't matter with the operation of the Alcubierre drive itself; the consumables do. Provided you don't use anything beyond stock power sources, xenon's the main limiting resource (with the development version, fuel cell arrays are your best source of electrical charge for the drive, so liquid fuel and oxidizer become secondary limiting resources, which can be mitigated through off-world refueling operations). You'll need sufficient power to run the exotic matter generator to recharge that at some point, but in my experience interplanetary travel generally requires at least a portion of the flight in close proximity to Kerbol, close enough that eight Gigantor solar panels will provide more than sufficient power. MSV Fat Man has made a trip out to Duna, back to Kerbin and then back out to Duna without recharging its xenon tanks; she's currently got about half the xenon tank still full. This is with the dev version, where the resource consumption has been increased substantially; the Phoenix probes (using the current release version of the mod) have barely used any xenon at all.