[1.12.x] Alcubierre Warp Drive (Stand-alone)

[goldenpsp]

1 hour ago, TheRagingIrishman said:

He was just joking. RoverDude is one of KSP most active modders and actually works for Squad as well as modding. This mod definitely works in 1.2.2.

Yea I was.  The answer is also clearly in the release notes on the download page linked in the OP for those who look before asking.

Edited April 17, 2017 by goldenpsp

[ZuluDoggy]

I think I could use a little help.  I've read through a good chunk of this thread (not all, admittedly) and I've even read jd284's wiki but I think I must be missing something.  I've been putzing around with this mod (in sandbox mode) and keep encountering the same situation.  With velocity conservation on, I launch straight out - I don't circularize.  At about 650 Km my velocity is somewhere in the vicinity of 1500 m/s and I engage the Alcubierre drive, continuing straight out.  Shortly after I pass the orbit of Minmus, my velocity jumps to somewhere in excess of 10,000 m/s. I then head for Duna or Eve, depending on how I feel and try to keep my ship somewhere outside their respective orbits before entering either system.   But, upon entering the Duna or Eve systems, my speed jumps even higher.  Duna is usually over 15,000 m/s and Eve has been in excess of 20,000 m/s. 

Can someone tell me either what I am doing wrong (highly likely) or explain what I need to do to keep this from happening? Thanks!

(edited to fix my continued use of Km/s when I meant m/s)

 

Edited April 29, 2017 by ZuluDoggy

[superdavekerman]

2 hours ago, ZuluDoggy said:

I think I could use a little help.  I've read through a good chunk of this thread (not all, admittedly) and I've even read jd284's wiki but I think I must be missing something.  I've been putzing around with this mod (in sandbox mode) and keep encountering the same situation.  With velocity conservation on, I launch straight out - I don't circularize.  At about 650 Km my velocity is somewhere in the vicinity of 1500 Km/s and I engage the Alcubierre drive, continuing straight out.  Shortly after I pass the orbit of Minmus, my velocity jumps to somewhere in excess of 10,000 Km/s. I then head for Duna or Eve, depending on how I feel and try to keep my ship somewhere outside their respective orbits before entering either system.   But, upon entering the Duna or Eve systems, my speed jumps even higher.  Duna is usually over 15,000 Km/s and Eve has been in excess of 20,000 Km/s. 

Can someone tell me either what I am doing wrong (highly likely) or explain what I need to do to keep this from happening? Thanks!

 

For an example, I was able to successfully use the drive with minimal deltaV cost by waiting until Eve was directly adjacent.  Left from the outer side of the orbit, so my kerbol relative speed would've been about 9200 m/s + 1500 m/s.   Since Eve's orbital velocity is ~10800 according to the wiki, it was simple to find a spot near Eve that was already a valid orbit.  Had I left from the inner side, my kerbol relative speed would've been 9200 - 1500, which is about what you need for Duna. 

As to why your speed increases when you enter the SOI, that sounds very strange. 

[ZuluDoggy]

15 minutes ago, superdavekerman said:

For an example, I was able to successfully use the drive with minimal deltaV cost by waiting until Eve was directly adjacent.  Left from the outer side of the orbit, so my kerbol relative speed would've been about 9200 m/s + 1500 m/s.   Since Eve's orbital velocity is ~10800 according to the wiki, it was simple to find a spot near Eve that was already a valid orbit.  Had I left from the inner side, my kerbol relative speed would've been 9200 - 1500, which is about what you need for Duna. 

As to why your speed increases when you enter the SOI, that sounds very strange. 

That's what I am wondering.  My first attempts were similar to what you are describing - I would leave from the "correct" side of the orbit so as to increase/decrease my speed and use that to reduce the dV needed when encountering Eve/Duna.  However, I soon discovered it seemed to make no difference where I left orbit from, my speed always jumped to 10K+ m/s leaving the Kerbin SOI.  Then I would get a second speed boost upon entering the Eve/Duna SOI.  This is why I gave up on orbiting Kerbin and just started launching straight out...

 

[helaeon]

The jump to 10km/s you see is your speed relative to Kerbol. You had that velocity while you were orbiting kerbin too. All about frame of reference. When you leave kerbin SOI it should be 9284.5 m/s in this case your best case departure window is when the planet is directly lined up, worst is when it's on the opposite side of kerbol., so likely you're launching straight out and have about 2km/s excess velocity in relation to kerbol. It's always going to be about 9km/s regardless of orbiting or not.
Then when you hit Eve or Duna your velocity shown is then relative to them in their SOI. You have to correct that just like you do when you do an inefficient transfer and have a bonkers velocity vector upon arrival. Which will be very very high regardless in velocity mode. That's one reason people suggest diving to near Kerbol and using it to change your velocity vector so that it is close to equal with your target (so parallel to your target and the same. For Duna it is  about 7500 m/s), then when you arrive your velocity difference should be very low.

Velocity mode can give you some really bonkers relative vectors to your destination but it's simpler to understand. Momentum mode less so (both in ease of understanding and how crazy the vectors can get). The final delta-v needed at arrival in that mode is the same as a normal transfer but without the time involved... and you can also repeatedly slingshot yourself at periapsis or use the oberth effect repeatedly to circularize.

Edited April 29, 2017 by helaeon

[CantSpellSlaughterWithout]

For whatever reason, I've forgotten what file to put the mod folder into. Anyone know which one?

[goldenpsp]

1 hour ago, CantSpellSlaughterWithout said:

For whatever reason, I've forgotten what file to put the mod folder into. Anyone know which one?

you put mods into your gamedata. If the zip has a ganedata folder you put the contents of gamedata into your gamedata folder. You don't want nested gamedata folders like gamedata\gamedata

 

[RoverDude]

0.6.1 - KSP 1.3
-------------------
KSP 1.3 Compatibility
Dependency updates
 

[Sky strato]

Love this mod I just have one little Itsy problem

i didnt tamper with anything I promise but when I pressed z to go full speed I though I would go to 1.6 x the speed of light it when to over 9000 times the speed of light leaving references out of the way it was closer to 900000 times

anything?

[luxor00]

I am a user of this mod over 1 year as well as the remaining USI.
In the upgrade from KSP to 1.3, this mod stopped working, I explain:
- When used in existing or new ships, it is simply impractical because it is not possible to stabilize in acceleration, making it impossible to launch or any operation in space.
I have tried different approaches in the new ships, from the most usual and simple to the most exoteric, with no result. Those that already existed and that worked well, present the same problem.
Can you help?
Thank you

[liltimma]

Any chance for larger form factors? This is the most practical, balanced drive for use with a galaxy pack & MKS to colonize the stars. We would need a larger form factor to get the mass needed to start a self sufficient base out there. 

[Spaceception]

This may have been answered a long time ago, but is this combinable? Can I stick one near the front, and another near the back, and have an extended warp bubble?

[helaeon]

@Spaceception Nope.... and if you do it will be very bad. For looks sake you can but you need to disable all of the drives but one. However you only get the warp bubble of that one drive.

[Spaceception]

23 minutes ago, helaeon said:

@Spaceception Nope.... and if you do it will be very bad. For looks sake you can but you need to disable all of the drives but one. However you only get the warp bubble of that one drive.

Dang, thanks for the reply though 

[TiktaalikDreaming]

3 hours ago, helaeon said:

@Spaceception Nope.... and if you do it will be very bad. For looks sake you can but you need to disable all of the drives but one. However you only get the warp bubble of that one drive.

That's pretty much how the answer should be.  Based on the physics of the things.  Larger, yep, joined, nope, and probably say goodbye to local star systems if you try.  That bubble edge has a lot in common with black hole event horizons.

[luxor00]

On changing values, we have in the config file:
BubbleSize = 5
MaxAccelleration = 7
But, it does not make sense because it stays in planetary systems impractical in speed and size is more than enough.
Can anyone help with my question?
I created a Reaction Wheel with very large values to try to compensate even losing the current ships, results:
- Or it turns out but the ship is shaking when it activates to the point of being unmanageable
- Or it stays stable, but when it changes direction in a maneuver never stabilizes.
The file has values:
PitchTorque = 6000
YawTorque = 6000
RollTorque = 6000
TorqueResponseSpeed = 1000
I have tested 3000 to 12000 in each.
Suggestions?

 

Edited June 19, 2017 by luxor00
corrections

[helaeon]

Do you have any RCS ports or engines activated besides the warp drive? Where are your reaction wheels located (game does not like them away from center of mass), you'll notice if you have a reaction wheel on one side of a large heavy space station it will shake apart on any kind of motion? Are you autostrutted? You are using the current version for KSP 1.3 in 1.3 right?

Unfortunately a balance cannot be met between an interstellar drive that some people requested and a friendly in-system drive. Back when I made my changes I figured it was an in-system only drive... lots of people wanted something else so the top speeds were further cranked up, and for 1:1 scale solar system use as at warp 1 Neptune or Neidon is an hour and a half away. I agree it accelerates too quickly and the top speed is too high for a 1:10 scale solar system, thing is, not everyone is playing in that sandbox so a balance has to be met.

[liltimma]

I would contribute to creating larger form factors if this isn't in your time budget - I don't see any blend files in the repo though. I was thinking radial nacelles that expand the warp bubble (and possibly the warp factor to decrease travel time for stars) and a 3.5m inline module that creates the exotic particles. Similar to star trek ones but in kerbal fashion and style. Thoughts? 

[jd284]

2 hours ago, liltimma said:

I would contribute to creating larger form factors if this isn't in your time budget - I don't see any blend files in the repo though. I was thinking radial nacelles that expand the warp bubble (and possibly the warp factor to decrease travel time for stars) and a 3.5m inline module that creates the exotic particles. Similar to star trek ones but in kerbal fashion and style. Thoughts? 

I would like a larger form factor. I sometimes use the drive to maneuver large asteroids into an elliptical Earth orbit (6400 x 200) where they can be aerobraked to my space factory. But the maximum asteroid size is limited by the warp bubble size to about 800t.

Keep in mind that currently only one part in a craft can have the warp drive or things will break. So adding nacelles to expand the field would require code changes to add this behavior, basically the actual drive at the center of the bubble would have to scan for nacelles and enlarge its field if it finds them.

This would be a nice way to expand an existing ship though.

[Stevie_D]

3 hours ago, liltimma said:

I would contribute to creating larger form factors if this isn't in your time budget - I don't see any blend files in the repo though. I was thinking radial nacelles that expand the warp bubble (and possibly the warp factor to decrease travel time for stars) and a 3.5m inline module that creates the exotic particles. Similar to star trek ones but in kerbal fashion and style. Thoughts? 

Perhaps a better compromise would be to suggest following on from the work of the actual theory behind the Alcubierre drive.

Nasa Eagleworks' Dr.Harold White, creator of the IXS concept,  took Alcubierre's research and expanded on it to theorize that having 2 warp rings makes the drive work more feasibly. In other words for KSP - adding a second ring or more increases the speed/and or/size of the warp bubble.

 

Edited June 20, 2017 by Stevie_D

[liltimma]

7 minutes ago, jd284 said:

I would like a larger form factor. I sometimes use the drive to maneuver large asteroids into an elliptical Earth orbit (6400 x 200) where they can be aerobraked to my space factory. But the maximum asteroid size is limited by the warp bubble size to about 800t.

Keep in mind that currently only one part in a craft can have the warp drive or things will break. So adding nacelles to expand the field would require code changes to add this behavior, basically the actual drive at the center of the bubble would have to scan for nacelles and enlarge its field if it finds them.

This would be a nice way to expand an existing ship though.

Exactly, so the inline module would create the warp bubble, the radial nacelles would add a multiplier. Something like - each nacelle multiples the warp bubble size and factor by .75 in an additvie fashion. So two nacelles makes bubble 1.5 times bigger and "faster". Idk, the actual numbers could be played around with a little bit for balance, but after looking through the code it should just be a matter of multiplying the warp factor and bubble scale by the number. Going from 3.5 to higher sizes would just involve creating bigger "tube" that creates exotic particles. Long term, it would be cool to make the bubble configurable like a fairing. 

[luxor00]

On ‎20‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 1:42 AM, helaeon said:

Do you have any RCS ports or engines activated besides the warp drive? Where are your reaction wheels located (game does not like them away from center of mass), you'll notice if you have a reaction wheel on one side of a large heavy space station it will shake apart on any kind of motion? Are you autostrutted? You are using the current version for KSP 1.3 in 1.3 right?

Unfortunately a balance cannot be met between an interstellar drive that some people requested and a friendly in-system drive. Back when I made my changes I figured it was an in-system only drive... lots of people wanted something else so the top speeds were further cranked up, and for 1:1 scale solar system use as at warp 1 Neptune or Neidon is an hour and a half away. I agree it accelerates too quickly and the top speed is too high for a 1:10 scale solar system, thing is, not everyone is playing in that sandbox so a balance has to be met.

Thanks for the let.
The ship is not big, let's say it fits in size 15 bubble.
I have the RCS turned off.
For greater stability - I have one reaction wheel. Unfortunately it's near the center of mass, I'll test putting on one end.

I changed the position of the reaction wheels (with the acceptable value of 300), 1 isolated at the top and then another at the bottom, in either case the stability problem remains

What gave rise to the stability problem was the upgrade to 1.3
The ships that were stable began to "tip" at the launch side (even at very low speeds) and to become unstable in space.
The attempt for altered reaction wheels in values is an attempt to overcome the problem that has arisen.

Without the alcubierre engine, the spacecraft is perfectly stable in space and upon rising. When setting the engine, the ship "falls" to the side between 1000m and 5000m even at low speed.

Edited June 21, 2017 by luxor00
more information

[Bill Phil]

Man, this mod is great. Three days to Laythe, baby! (not sure if Kerbin days or Earth days, but I think it was Kerbin days...)

With some clever translation you can abuse gravity to slow you down. Is that okay? Speeding up might be an issue, but so far I've managed to get to Laythe without actually using any propellant (maybe some xenon, but I don't recall). This is fun.

[Beale]

A lot of fun!

 TKS-Interkosmos
 Away we go!
 No chance of entering orbit in any normal way, not with tiny monopropellant engines.

(You know it is bad when the Delta-V requirement goes into two-lines).

 A pretty view though.

@RoverDude are you interested to expand this further? I would love to create a warp-drive in an intermediate (1.25m) form.
Maybe a fixed-ring type, extending out towards 3.75m.

Edited July 3, 2017 by Beale

[Abpilot]

On ‎22‎/‎11‎/‎2014 at 1:33 AM, RoverDude said:

(Reserved for new stuff)

lol i would like the exotic mater to charge a hell of a lot faster than me having to do 5,000 kerbin orbits for a jool/lythe mission.

Edited July 22, 2017 by Abpilot