New Horizons

[regex]

Tweets like these make me thing that the soul purpose of New Horizons is just to get Pluto reinstated as a planet.

Yes, the sole purpose of the New Horizons mission is to reinstate Pluto as a planet even though it was launched before Pluto was "demoted". Science literally had nothing to do with it, the engineers were prescient.

OTOH, Maybe the New Horizons team feels pretty strongly about the classification and wants a further narrowing of the IAU classification scheme, or something else rational.

Edited July 19, 2015 by regex

[lajoswinkler]

Tweets like these make me thing that the soul purpose of New Horizons is just to get Pluto reinstated as a planet.

Don't they have a rule to only post professional things instead of jumping on the "Pluto is a planet" band wagon every time it passes.

[basic.syntax]

Ars Technica has republished a good article about this subject:

Pluto’s demotion is a great opportunity for science

[-ctn-]

I think it's more of an awareness thing. Most of the general public (that I've talked to at least) still wants Pluto to be a planet, and if they do a petition online, more people are going to indirectly be interested in New Horizons.

The Dawn team did the same thing; they had a poll online to vote for what the bright spots were: salt, ice, cryovolcanoes, ect.

I don't see it as being a serious attempt to redefine the planet... I see it as a publicity thing to get people interested in the crazy awesome things happening these days. Which I don't see as a bad thing. More people need to pay attention, in my opinion.

[magnemoe]

Ars Technica has republished a good article about this subject:

Pluto’s demotion is a great opportunity for science

Main problem is that its multiple Pluto sized objects out past Neptune, we don't know how many, if Pluto is an planet so is they and we might end up with 20 planets or more depending on where we put the limit. Note that them pluto was discovered they thought it was a bit smaller than Earth, they thought it was larger than Mars until they found its moon.

I bit simlar to Ceres, they could kept it an planet this would made the mess in the outer system even worse as we would get loads of new planets.

[Technical Ben]

I blame the education system. Or the facade put up in pretence of one.

[Aethon]

(Facepalm)

Nothing appeals to successful (not hungry) groups of monkeys more than a good argument -look at baboon troops or the Congress of the United States.

Often we waste time and energy arguing because our language is not precise enough to properly convey what we truly mean.

As an amateur Greek scholar, I can say with confidence that the Ancient Greeks were another highly successful group of monkeys with much free time on their hands. Consequently they made up a lot of words for things, which is why the roots of many of our words come from the Greek.

The word planet, I'm sure you are aware comes from the Greek :Àλάνε (planes) and means nothing more than wanderer or Àλάνε άÃĀηà(planes aster): wandering star.

The point being, you can slap whatever name or title you want on Pluto, it's not going to change what Plato would call the Form of the thing, or Aristotle would call 'the thing in itself'. It is what it is. Regardless, the squawking noise applied by some silly monkeys thousands of years ago in reference to Pluto (even though they didn't have any idea what the 'thing in itself' was they were squawking about) doesn't change the scientific facts that will define the object Pluto we will come to know over the next few months.

TL;DR Another thing to blame the Greeks for . Lets move on.

( I should mention, both of my paternal grandparents were Greek immigrants. )

Edited July 20, 2015 by Aethon

[basic.syntax]

Main problem is that its multiple Pluto sized objects out past Neptune, we don't know how many, if Pluto is an planet so is they and we might end up with 20 planets or more depending on where we put the limit. Note that them pluto was discovered they thought it was a bit smaller than Earth, they thought it was larger than Mars until they found its moon.

I bit simlar to Ceres, they could kept it an planet this would made the mess in the outer system even worse as we would get loads of new planets.

I don't think that's a worry - the article argues for the opposite (not a planet). As did Neil deGrasse Tyson, unmoved by any New Horizons data, in his

[PB666]

(Facepalm)

Nothing appeals to successful (not hungry) groups of monkeys more than a good argument. Look at baboon troops or the Congress of the United States. Often we waste time and energy arguing because our language is not precise enough to properly convey what we truly mean.

As an amateur Greek scholar, I can say with confidence that the Ancient Greeks were another highly successful group of monkeys with a lot of free time on their hands. Consequently they made up a lot of words for things, which is why the roots of many of our words come from the Greek.

The word planet, I'm sure you are aware comes from the Greek :Àλάνε (planes) and means nothing more than wanderer or Àλάνε άÃĀηà(planes aster): wandering star.

The point being, you can slap whatever name or title you want on Pluto, it's not going to change what Plato would call the Form of the thing, or Aristotle would call 'the thing in itself'. It is what it is. Regardless of the squawking noise applied by some silly monkeys thousands of years ago in reference to Pluto, even though they didn't have any idea what the object was they were squawking about, doesn't change the scientific facts that will define the object Pluto we will come to know over the next few months.

TL;DR Another thing to blame the Greeks for:). Lets move on.

( I should mention, both of my paternal grandparents were Greek immigrants. )

I mostly agree. Systematic position and value are not synonymous. Pluto has value created from its observations and because of its unique position in apparently variable gravitation circumstances in the solar system (both a transneptunian planet and a member of the Kuiper belt). If we are to return to pluto its going to because of its interesting qualities, had it been another gassy planet Neptune it would not be near as interesting. I think what New Horizons teaches us that a low resolution view of something could reveal anything from a Ceres like planet to the strange thing everyone gasp at when they saw the high resolution images for the first time. Pluto basically tells us that we need to invest more in space astronomy and in observation missions around the solar system. If such objects exist in the Kuiper belt there are probably a few comets that wander in and out of the solar system that are equally interesting.

And more to the point Pluto basically is now the Epic dwarf planet, its the champion for the exploration of the Kuiper belt. If it was just another planet it would not warrant as much discussion, but as a dwarf planet it represents a number objects out there that beg to be discovered, and at least the thought now of coming up with the technology to land on one of these things and at some future point (given the level of water and the possibility that at some future point fusion power will be cheap) an in fuel depot on a world with a miniscule dV.

I think its romantic to see Pluto go back as a planet, but it doesn't bother me that its not, because I think now Pluto is its own champion, nothing, including systematics will relegate it to a petty status.

[WinkAllKerb'']

pluto = first step ; ) until next biggy one ; )

[kiwi1960]

Two points....

1) Pluto is a planet.... albeit a "dwarf" *PLANET* ... what was your point again?

2) You all assume Pluto started off its life right where its at... which creates more questions and baffling observations than it answers...

Given its age... has no one considered that Pluto was a rogue planet and was captured to its present spot, with help from its moon?

It would certainly answer many questions... mainly to do with its age and lack of craters.

[Camacha]

Main problem is that its multiple Pluto sized objects out past Neptune, we don't know how many, if Pluto is an planet so is they and we might end up with 20 planets or more depending on where we put the limit. Note that them pluto was discovered they thought it was a bit smaller than Earth, they thought it was larger than Mars until they found its moon.

I bit simlar to Ceres, they could kept it an planet this would made the mess in the outer system even worse as we would get loads of new planets.

Having too many planets otherwise is possibly the worst argument ever to demote dwarf planets. Should we lump together ant species because there are too many too? Convenience has nothing to do with fitting classification (without making comments on whether the convenient scheme would be the most scientifically useful or correct).

[Lord Aurelius]

It ultimately doesn't really matter what we call various astronomical bodies (or anything really for that matter) as it doesn't change what they actually are, but a sensible classification system does have some major benefits for convenience.

That said, I think "dwarf planet" is a perfectly reasonable category for Pluto and the growing number of other objects we're finding that are large enough to be spherical, but are still much smaller and very different than the current 8 planets. The status change has nothing to do with convenience/demotion/etc and everything to do with new data. Historically, astronomers were looking for a Planet X that was assumed to have significant mass (based on an incorrect assumption of Neptune's mass) and when they initially found Pluto, they assumed it to be this new planet and so (correctly given the information available at the time) called it a planet. All the status change really did is to acknowledge the new data showing that Pluto is quite different from the other planets and actually has much more in common with the other Kuiper belt objects.

[jfull]

I'm okay with the classification as long as schools teach kids about all the dwarf planets.

[NFUN]

Two points....

1) Pluto is a planet.... albeit a "dwarf" *PLANET* ... what was your point again?

2) You all assume Pluto started off its life right where its at... which creates more questions and baffling observations than it answers...

Given its age... has no one considered that Pluto was a rogue planet and was captured to its present spot, with help from its moon?

It would certainly answer many questions... mainly to do with its age and lack of craters.

1.) The IAU explicitly said that 'Dwarf Planet' is a unique and separate category than 'Planet'.

2.) The Kuiper Belt as a whole is theorized to have formed closer to the Sun/Jupiter than it is now, and migrated outwards thanks to the influence of the gas giants. Pluto itself is likely similar to many of the other TNOs (Trans-Neptunian Objects), and it has the same resonance with Neptune that the others do, which could indicate a similar origin (or perhaps not, I'm not an astrophysicist).

[Superfluous J]

Pluto is a planet.... albeit a "dwarf" *PLANET*

W is a U. Albeit a "double" *U*.

Grape Nuts are nuts. Albeit "grape" nuts.

A meerkat is a cat. Albeit a "meer" cat.

Language is funny. 2 words put together does not necessarily mean that an object described by those words belongs in another group of object described by one of the words. With no evidence to the contrary it's generally safe to assume it does, but when the people who defined the category specifically state that it does not, you have to defer to them.

[bos]

W is a U. Albeit a "double" *U*.

Grape Nuts are nuts. Albeit "grape" nuts.

A meerkat is a cat. Albeit a "meer" cat.

Albeit is an it. Albeit an "allbe" it.

[Scotius]

Could you please stop confusing people with linguistic weirdness of english language? :)Thank you very much.

[magnemoe]

Having too many planets otherwise is possibly the worst argument ever to demote dwarf planets. Should we lump together ant species because there are too many too? Convenience has nothing to do with fitting classification (without making comments on whether the convenient scheme would be the most scientifically useful or correct).

However its probably the reason, if not who not keep Ceres as an planet and include Vesta too, make the definition an body who is spherical because of hydrodynamic pressure and in orbit around the sun.

Planet is just an definition you can make it however you want however Ceres was dropped then they found it was not unique in the belt only the largest.

[rkman]

Can we please have this thread for discussion of the NH mission, and keep discussions about Pluto's classification to the appropriate thread:

Pluto the Planet

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/128639-Pluto-the-Planet-D

[Frida Space]

You all assume Pluto started off its life right where its at... which creates more questions and baffling observations than it answers...

No one assumes Pluto formed where it is, in fact everyone assumes the exact opposite. Pluto is a Plutino, meaning it is in a 2:3 resonance with Neptune. Obviously it didn't form in that resonance, so this means it has moved a bit. If you then consider the various Grand Tack / Nice Model you see how much the outer planets moved and, consequently, the KBOs too.

[lajoswinkler]

All of the planets moved in their past. What matters is the present state.

[WinkAllKerb'']

Could you please stop confusing people with linguistic weirdness of english language? :)Thank you very much.

hihi, i m sorry to say that and this is not possible ; ) as i tend to see language evolve exactly the same way as for exemple DNA and darwin law ; ) (and a few other thing of that kind )

; ) ; ) ; ) languages genealogia, word as sequencies, ideopictogram draw letter and other stimulisssssss etc related as different coding layer ; ) and as far as i made my own experiment around this concept since quite a while now all i can really say is that it's quite interesting ; )

Edited July 20, 2015 by WinkAllKerb''

[Frida Space]

; ) ; ) ; ) languages genealogia' date=' word as sequencies, ideopictogram draw letter and other stimulisssssss etc related as different coding layer ; ) and as far as i made my own experiment around this concept since quite a while now all i can really say is that it's quite interesting ; )[/quote']

I'm fascinated by languages too, but this thread should only be about discussing the New Horizons mission and its findings on Plutonian geology, atmosphere, etc. The New Horizons mission and whatever we call Pluto are two totally unrelated things. Plus, as someone already pointed out, there's already an active thread on discussing just Pluto's status.

[WinkAllKerb'']

you can't ask someone wich brain tend to work kinda like "spad" not talk kinda like "spad" and "suggest similitude" http://www.coheris.com/produits/analytics/logiciel-data-mining/ metaphorically speaking. welcome to my 0.000001% kim peek and autistic fiber specter ° world wich already tend to be kinda heavy to assume even with this low % ; )

"it's not because it appear to be a mess that it's a mess or neither a mess"

Edited July 20, 2015 by WinkAllKerb''
lol@ric i do believe working for too long with this crap of a software totally brainwashed me by mimetism somehow ; ) & xDr