Thoughts on mod concept?

[rbray89]

So, I was thinking about building ships. Specifically, very, very large ships. Or ships that are not aerodynamic at all. Or space stations. Basically, things that should really be assembled in orbit.

Name: Orbital Dry Dock (ODD)

It would work like this:

1) You send up a small build platform.

2) you send up resources and attach them to said platform.

3) you use the platform, and select a ship/structure to build.

4) ship is built, and you can un-dock it from the build platform.

Additional Notes:

The build platform will have a docking node on it, and ships that you want to build will have to be saved with said dock attached (so it knows how to orient the ship, and how it should be docked.

There will be multiple styles/sizes of build platforms, each with mass and size restrictions. (won't be able to build a huge ship from a tiny platform)

Platforms should be upgradable to larger build platforms.

Tonnage will be the resource used. There would be several sizes of cargo pods. Ships will be based off of their dry weight, and when built have to be filled with fuel separately. The tonnage would then be subtracted from the tonnage resource in the cargo pods.

Basically, I'm thinking of a small, short cylinder with a robotic arm for the most simple construction platform, and a huge dry dock or space hanger for the larger ships. The player would be responsible for getting enough payloads to the construction site, but this should allow players to get huge ships/stations into orbit with much less fuss.

I'm aware of orbital construction (defunct?), but I'd rather be more generic with resources, and add expandability to the build platform.

I'd REALLY like to pursue this, but I am also working on EVE and ATM (can't you tell I like 3-letter acronyms?), and I'm terrible at modeling.

Thoughts?

[nli2work]

wouldn't this be very similar to EPL? And yes I've been thinking about the same thing. ships larger than 100m assembled with modules that are built in orbit. though I figured I would simply rely on the EPL mechanics for everything, plus a one-shot docking module for assembling the ship chunks. KSP seems to handle mid size ships up to 400m alright. not sure what the upper bound is, less than 1500m I'm pretty sure.

Edited December 11, 2014 by nli2work

[RoverDude]

Build it, and I'll happily integrate with it.

[rbray89]

wouldn't this be very similar to EPL? And yes I've been thinking about the same thing. ships larger than 100m assembled with modules that are built in orbit. though I figured I would simply rely on the EPL mechanics for everything, plus a one-shot docking module for assembling the ship chunks. KSP seems to handle mid size ships up to 400m alright. not sure what the upper bound is, less than 1500m I'm pretty sure.

I hadn't seen EPL before... looks cool, however I'm thinking more from a realism/simplicity standpoint. The assumption here is that you wouldn't be able to extract ore to build things, you would require shipments of parts. Lets face it, if we manage to land a human on another planet in the next 100 years, we probably won't be doing any manufacturing for a long time. And if we ever do manage to send a ship to another planet with (many) humans on-board, it will probably be assembled in space.

Build it, and I'll happily integrate with it.

DANG... just looked at the USI catalogue. How do you have all the time to do this? I can barely juggle ATM and EVE.

[klgraham1013]

I like this idea. Also, a ground based platform would be great.

I love KSP modders. They make this game so awesome.

[nli2work]

I hadn't seen EPL before... looks cool, however I'm thinking more from a realism/simplicity standpoint. The assumption here is that you wouldn't be able to extract ore to build things, you would require shipments of parts. Lets face it, if we manage to land a human on another planet in the next 100 years, we probably won't be doing any manufacturing for a long time. And if we ever do manage to send a ship to another planet with (many) humans on-board, it will probably be assembled in space.

EPL builds subassemblies that you save in the Editor with "Rocket Parts" resource, which is converted from metal, which is converted from Ore you dig up from the surface somewhere. I figure down in the code it's more less the same, just different names. whether you require the "Rocket Parts" resource being launched from a planet's surface, where the other conversions are done on the surface; or launching "Ore" from the surface and do the conversions in space isn't terribly different. I mean it's different game play wise; but for code, it's the same either way. At least that's what I figured from looking at the part modules and source. haven't actually played with the mod yet.

[rbray89]

EPL builds subassemblies that you save in the Editor with "Rocket Parts" resource, which is converted from metal, which is converted from Ore you dig up from the surface somewhere. I figure down in the code it's more less the same, just different names. whether you require the "Rocket Parts" resource being launched from a planet's surface, where the other conversions are done on the surface; or launching "Ore" from the surface and do the conversions in space isn't terribly different. I mean it's different game play wise; but for code, it's the same either way. At least that's what I figured from looking at the part modules and source. haven't actually played with the mod yet.

Do you know if size limits are imposed on ships for dry-docks?

I want to integrate it into the tech tree, such that it provides a nice, linear progression into larger, interplanetary ships.

[nli2work]

I don't know what the size limit is, if any. Philotical says he's made objects up to 17km. though I had trouble getting a 1500m, very light part to do anything other than float in space.

[NathanKell]

I'd suggest sending taniwha a PM, I do think you'd get what you're looking for much more easily with a few pull requests than rewriting from scratch. And EPL has *really* awesome features, and if I know taniwha the code will be very clean.

[Van Disaster]

EPL has an orbital construction component ( and there are 3rd party ones ) and I think has all the functionality you want - you just seem to want a different resource chain? may be best just to work with taniwha on this, perhaps you can get any hooks you need for your particular version added to the EPL core, rather like people use the Karbonite or Kethane cores for things not terribly related to either.

[rbray89]

Very good points... I think that I might just be stubborn I have something in my head like the star-trek dry docks that they would use to construct huge ships and think that was really what i would like to see in-game, along with a nice tech progression.

[nli2work]

I just looked at some pics of Philotical's NCI mod. some of the objects are very large. Looks KSP doesn't have problems handling something like an orbital construction dock for building ships kms in size. NCI appears to manipulate physics range so that maybe part of the reason it has objects much larger than 2.5km.

[artwhaley]

I'm still learning, and at the moment I'm working on a docking guidance handler for RPM, but when that's finished (probably around the first of the year, but of course maybe much sooner or later) I'd happily help with models for the platforms, if you'd like.

[wasml]

I've been thinking along the same lines but lacking the modeling and modding skills....

One thing I would have liked to implement is a salvage function like ELP's recycle - but instead of returning generic rocket parts - add the actual parts to inventory. In other words you wouldn't be able to turn 3 tons of solar panels into an LV-N - you'd just have 3 tons of solar panels in inventory - always seems a shame to toss spent boosters back into the atmosphere.

I'll be watching this thread with interest.

PS. Thanks for EVE - fantastic mod.

[passinglurker]

I've been thinking along the same lines but lacking the modeling and modding skills....

One thing I would have liked to implement is a salvage function like ELP's recycle - but instead of returning generic rocket parts - add the actual parts to inventory. In other words you wouldn't be able to turn 3 tons of solar panels into an LV-N - you'd just have 3 tons of solar panels in inventory - always seems a shame to toss spent boosters back into the atmosphere.

I'll be watching this thread with interest.

PS. Thanks for EVE - fantastic mod.

funny I've always wanted the same thing I'd be perfect for repairing ships after you accidentally stage a decoupler or just plain playing with your debris without having to go through EPL's long and overkill tool chain

[FreeThinker]

Personally, I would be happy to have a mod that allows me to create something in the VAB at in increased cost and lauch it directly into orbit. The added cost would simply be the result of a simple calculation based on mass, delta V (to orbit) and dimensions. Also an ability to salvage any ship in orbit return to the VAB, allow modification and relaunch it to orbit would make it gold

Edited December 12, 2014 by FreeThinker

[hab136]

First let me say these are great ideas! The fact that some of them are already implemented just validates how great they are

Very good points... I think that I might just be stubborn I have something in my head like the star-trek dry docks that they would use to construct huge ships and think that was really what i would like to see in-game, along with a nice tech progression.

Star-Trek-style dry docks (EPL-compatible): http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/92816 (scroll down on the page for the spackdock-only package, or just grab it from KerbalStuff)

You don't *have* to mine in EPL. You can just send up a drydock, then a container full of the "RocketParts" resource. Resupply with "RocketParts" as you build ships. LiquidFuel, RCS, and other resources have to be supplied separately.

I would encourage you to simply add to EPL, since most of the work is already done.

1) You send up a small build platform.

2) you send up resources and attach them to said platform.

3) you use the platform, and select a ship/structure to build.

4) ship is built, and you can un-dock it from the build platform.

Yep, this is exactly how EPL works if you ignore the optional mining, and/or don't have mining installed (Kethane or Karbonite).

The build platform will have a docking node on it, and ships that you want to build will have to be saved with said dock attached (so it knows how to orient the ship, and how it should be docked.

I believe EPL just attaches the ship via the root node to the drydock. Just like subassemblies, with the same rules. Then you click "release" on the drydock, and it releases the new ship. It works pretty well. SelectRoot is helpful when building; 0.90 will have a built-in root node selection, so SelectRoot won't be necessary any more.

There will be multiple styles/sizes of build platforms, each with mass and size restrictions. (won't be able to build a huge ship from a tiny platform)

Platforms should be upgradable to larger build platforms.

That wold be cool. This is where you could definitely add value - adding this size-checking system into EPL. All the rest of the work is already done for you.

Tonnage will be the resource used. There would be several sizes of cargo pods. Ships will be based off of their dry weight, and when built have to be filled with fuel separately. The tonnage would then be subtracted from the tonnage resource in the cargo pods.

Rename "Tonnage" to "RocketParts", and that's already how it works in EPL.

[Disposeable]

Im just gonna leave this here.

While I personally don't use the provided part ( I add the module to something more in my style) I would say it helps out a lot with EPL Since you can mod it to ship rocket parts for you.