[1.2.2] Realistic Progression Zero (RP-0) - Lightweight RealismOverhaul career v0.53 June 12

[leudaimon]

@Maxsimal 

On 3/8/2016 at 6:32 PM, NathanKell said:

Allow easy ingame hiding of Non-RP-0 parts, just create a folder in GameData called NoNonRP0 and then delete GameData/ModuleManager.ConfigCache then start the game

[Maxsimal]

13 hours ago, leudaimon said:

@Maxsimal 

Just tried this - get an errorless CTD when loading my game however.

[leudaimon]

7 hours ago, Maxsimal said:

Just tried this - get an errorless CTD when loading my game however.

Weird... Worked OK for me

[nablabla]

Hi guys, I must say your work is getting better and better. I am just about playing it again! thank you so much.

question: I am in year 9, and suddenly I had +3Mio funds, I checked my contract and there was the crewed lunar flyby in there. ok maybe i clickted on it by accident, I can pull that off yo.

but then after launchin my next rocked there suddenly also is the crewed lunar landing. wtf?

Are those contracts automatically added?

Also there are some crewed plane missions I never accepted. I dont Play with planes, i actually deleted them to save Memory.

but why are These added automatically? I dont like that particularly.

And finally, why is the Duration for the lunar lander less than 2 years? 10 Years of preparation is what Comes into my mind.

best regards

▼

[chrisl]

2 hours ago, nablabla said:

Hi guys, I must say your work is getting better and better. I am just about playing it again! thank you so much.

question: I am in year 9, and suddenly I had +3Mio funds, I checked my contract and there was the crewed lunar flyby in there. ok maybe i clickted on it by accident, I can pull that off yo.

but then after launchin my next rocked there suddenly also is the crewed lunar landing. wtf?

Are those contracts automatically added?

Also there are some crewed plane missions I never accepted. I dont Play with planes, i actually deleted them to save Memory.

but why are These added automatically? I dont like that particularly.

And finally, why is the Duration for the lunar lander less than 2 years? 10 Years of preparation is what Comes into my mind.

best regards

▼

Neither of those missions are supposed to be setup as "autoAccept".  Though you will be offered them as soon as you meet the requirements.  But you don't have to actually accept them until you think you're ready for them.

[PTNLemay]

I've reached the point in my career run where I'm starting to unlock a bunch of the orbit-cabable rockets like the Agena-Atlas and the Titan II.  I've been having difficulty reaching orbit using my procedurally generated rockets, so I decided to try recreating the Titan II part for part.  The final rocket seems very underpowered, with a 300 kg payload I have just enough to reach orbit (about 11 km/s deltaV) and the TWR at lift-off is 1.05.  I did some quick checking, and I realized that the in-game LR-87 engine has a thrust of 1294 kN.  Whereas wikipedia says the first stage of the Titan II had over 1900 kN.

So I'm really wondering, why are some of the game's parts weaker than the real parts they're based on?

Edited April 16, 2016 by PTNLemay

[Phineas Freak]

@PTNLemaywhat variant of the LR-87 are you using? The Titan II used the AJ-5 with approximately 1734 kN of ASL thrust.

[Theysen]

58 minutes ago, PTNLemay said:

The final rocket seems very underpowered, with a 300 kg payload I have just enough to reach orbit (about 11 km/s deltaV) and the TWR at lift-off is 1.05.

Besides the other thngs, if you're going just to LEO - I assume this is the case - 11km/s of delta-v seems oddly high and makes the rocket heavier than it needs to be. This results in such low TWR's. Normally you should be fine with ~9.5km/s for low earth orbit missions (of course depending on the specific design).  

[PTNLemay]

47 minutes ago, Theysen said:

Besides the other thngs, if you're going just to LEO - I assume this is the case - 11km/s of delta-v seems oddly high and makes the rocket heavier than it needs to be. This results in such low TWR's. Normally you should be fine with ~9.5km/s for low earth orbit missions (of course depending on the specific design).  

I like having extra deltaV because I'm not very good at reaching orbit.  So 11 km/s is a nice safe amount.  I'm using the tanks and engines that are intended to be part of the Titan II (LR87 engine on the lower stage and LR91 engine on the second stage), so I'm not sure why it would be heavier than normal.  Here's another attempt I made, this time using a Mercury top stage, the heavier mass of the capsule has decreased the deltaV to 8900 m/s, and the TWR is down to 1.02.  I know this can't be normal because the Titan II was meant to transport the Gemini into orbit, and the Gemini capsule was even heavier than the Mercury.

 

@ Phineas Freak

I'm not sure, from what I can tell in the tech tree there's only one kind of LR87.  Here's a screengrab of the game's description of it.  I wasn't able to find the AJ-5, lots of AJ-10s, but they're all upper stages that don't have the needed super thrust.

 

EDIT:
Hmm... I think I've found my problem.  I hadn't realized the engines were customizable like this:  

That would indeed explain why my LR87 is so much weaker than the one used on the real Titan II.  But... while researching this more, I found that the real one was supposed to use Aerozine instead of kerosene.  Why isn't Aerozine an option when fueling the tank?

Edited April 16, 2016 by PTNLemay

[Phineas Freak]

@PTNLemayyou have not unlocked (at least) the AJ-5 variant yet and because of that it is impossible to fill the tanks with AZ50 + NTO.

Edited April 16, 2016 by Phineas Freak

[PTNLemay]

Is the Aerozine more effective than the Kerosene?

[Phineas Freak]

On paper, Kerolox has a much better performance than Hypergolics but ultimately, the engine is the weak link. Propellants can be as good as the engines that burn them are.

[nablabla]

is it normal that there is no scaling of parachutes?

if yes how am I supposed to recover probes. the smallest chute is 23kg and huge. There should be some chutes for souning rockets or how can I make them scaleable?

best regards

[leudaimon]

1 minute ago, nablabla said:

is it normal that there is no scaling of parachutes?

If you have realchutes installed, when you go to the action group options and click the parachutes, the options will appear, you can resize and set the preferences to match the size and weight of your probe.

[NathanKell]

@Maxsimal Sorry for the long delay here. Been a bit busy.

First things first: great to hear, and feedback is always welcome!

1. Yep, targeted experiment/altitude/time or season would be good for early on, and all the satellite stuff needs replacing.

2. DMagic Orbital Science doesn't autoinstall in CKAN, it's merely suggested. We will have to consider how to handle mods that add more science. That said, Normal and even Moderate are IMO too easy on all counts.

3. Ironically, satellite avionics have the most options AFAIK: Early Controllable Core, Ranger I, Ranger III, Surveyor, and the 5t Satellite Bus. What areas are lacking for them? (And yes, they are expensive.)

4. Yep, known issue, engines need (and will get) a cost overhaul.

5. That's getting fixed, there's an issue on the repo about it.

 

Regarding funding...I agree, we're looking at BROKE very eagerly.

 

Can you post the log for the CTD you got?

[nablabla]

9 hours ago, leudaimon said:

If you have realchutes installed, when you go to the action group options and click the parachutes, the options will appear, you can resize and set the preferences to match the size and weight of your probe.

oh man! Thank you. I really didnt believe it at first until I read it carefully THE ACTION GROUP OPTION, ok Kind of hidden. There should be a Kind of hint (or why not adding a regular "Show UI" button :/

anyways, thank you

[nablabla]

hi, another question. After playing like 20 launches the games gets: totally slow and laggy, takes more and more time to Switch Scenes and has graphical Memory leak of about 200mb per Scene Switch (according to graphical Memory Monitor)

I tried terminating all debris, but it does not help. I know this can have so many reasons. But I guess you Play the game as well and have some ideas.

other than rp0,ro,rss and dependencies, I have some more mods: kerbal engineer, transfear window planer, alternate resource Panel, rcs build aid, quickscroll, kOS, navball Docking indicator and I guess some more

Edited April 17, 2016 by nablabla

[stratochief66]

@PTNLemay

 

The LR87 designation (this works for thinking about many other engines as well) covers many different actual engines used in many vehicles as the design was improved upon or entirely changed. The very first, which is what you have available in your game was used as the first stage of the Titan I.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LR-87

If you look in the 'Vehicle Design' tab here, you will see that the Titan II used a later version of the LR87:

http://www.b14643.de/Spacerockets_2/United_States_6/Titan_II/Description/Frame.htm

When you have unlocked the later variants of the LR87 and selected that variant for your craft in the VAB then the tank will have an auto-fill option for the fuel appropriate to that variant. If you hover over one of the variants that reports 'lack tech for' (and you have a recent enough version of RealFuels) it should tell you which technology you will need to unlock to be able to access that variant.

The Titan I was never used to place an orbital payload, but it had similar capabilities to the Atlas D. If you design a vehicle after the Titan I specs you should be able to place roughly the mass of the Mercury capsule into orbit, but that would leave you no dV for extra margin. If you build something with more dV than minimally necessary to reach orbit, expect to be able to carry a smaller payload.

6 hours ago, nablabla said:

hi, another question. After playing like 20 launches the games gets: totally slow and laggy, takes more and more time to Switch Scenes and has graphical Memory leak of about 200mb per Scene Switch (according to graphical Memory Monitor)

I tried terminating all debris, but it does not help. I know this can have so many reasons. But I guess you Play the game as well and have some ideas.

other than rp0,ro,rss and dependencies, I have some more mods: kerbal engineer, transfear window planer, alternate resource Panel, rcs build aid, quickscroll, kOS, navball Docking indicator and I guess some more

That is entirely normal in my experience. My solution is simply to restart once in a while. My install is so shake-y and bulky that I can only make 2-4 flights before I restart.

[Maxsimal]

@NathanKell 

No worries!  You're amazingly responsive.

Naturally when I try to reproduce the crash, it fails to occur and everything works.  Sorry I don't have the original either, since I did the test by copying my folder before testing and then deleted that install.   Guess the 'éngineer standing over shoulder' QA curse works remotely as well.  I'll try a few more times to see.

W/respect to the satellite avionics cores - yeah there're more options, but they generally are quite similar in terms of capabilities/scaling so they don't feel like much of an improvement - You go from the early core which gives you a control/mass ration of 4, max .2t, to very late cores that are several times as expensive and a control/mass ratio of 8, max 1t.  Ranger Block 1 is in fact worse than the early core in terms of control/mass ratio, and block 3 is barely better.

The guidance units, just looking at the standard ones, stay at roughly the same price(~2-300), and go from a ratio of 33 to 1500. 

In fact, even accounting for the extra solar panels you need to operate it, the 1m guidance unit is both cheaper and lighter than the surveyor/1t satllite bus, while giving you 150x more control tonnage.  Something I just found looking around in sandbox mode is that by the far the best 'satellite' core is actually the probodyne rovemate rover package.

Anyway, all that is just a purely balance-oriented issue, I didn't look too much into what these things really cost in the past - the articles I did read shocked me in terms of how much Boeing/Honeywell charge NASA for things today that should be solved technology by now.  But it's cool to know that SpaceX avionics runs on Linux.

[Phineas Freak]

On the topic of probe cores and avionics, it would be really nice if we could make the avionics have a multiplier that can be changed procedurally and combine it with a "Procedural Probe Core" part. The procedural probe core is easy but coding the avionics to be proceduraly generated might be difficult.

[MatBailie]

Does anyone have any idea on how long something as large as RP-0 will take to become 1.1 compatible?

• Lots of dependencies on other mods being updated first
• Lots of RP-0 specific changes
• At-least one patch to 1.1 still to come

I'm expecting that's going to be at least "a few weeks"?  Or would people in the know (I'm certainly not) expect it to be more like days (seems a bit optimistic) or months (seems very possible if somewhat sad)?

 

EDIT: A huge thank you to everyone involved in RP-0, it's fantastic.

Edited April 21, 2016 by MatBailie
politeness

[chrisl]

5 hours ago, MatBailie said:

Does anyone have any idea on how long something as large as RP-0 will take to become 1.1 compatible?

• Lots of dependencies on other mods being updated first
• Lots of RP-0 specific changes
• At-least one patch to 1.1 still to come

I'm expecting that's going to be at least "a few weeks"?  Or would people in the know (I'm certainly not) expect it to be more like days (seems a bit optimistic) or months (seems very possible if somewhat sad)?

 

EDIT: A huge thank you to everyone involved in RP-0, it's fantastic.

I wouldn't expect RP-0 to be updated for 1.1 until after RO is.  And it looks like RO is only about half way according to the Github checklist (https://github.com/KSP-RO/RealismOverhaul/issues/1120)  Just have to be patient which I know isn't easy.  Like you, I'm chomping at the bit to be able to upgrade to 1.1 

[PTNLemay]

I'm having a problem performing suborbital manned space-flights.   I understand that if I go straight up into space, and then fall straight down, the forces imparted on the capsule will be so great that the astronaut dies.  What's bothering me though is that it feels like no amount of latteral velocity can correct for this.  Even when I have an arc that's crossing a quarter of the planet (with the hope that this will create a drawn out and slower deceleration) I still peak at 15+ Gs of deceleration and my astronauts die.  The only time I can get it to work is when I perform a full orbit and come back in from the upper atmosphere.

I'll get a screengrab on my next attempt to show my ballistic arc to show you guys what I'm doing.

EDIT:  Here's the latest attempt.  Apoapsis is around 300 km, Periapsis is -1.0 Mm.  It's as wide as I can make it short of actually getting into orbit, but still... he hits 15Gs and holds it long enough to kill the kerbalnauts.  Is there something I'm obviously doing wrong?

 

Also, is it just not possible to put RCS fuel in procedurally generated fuel tanks?  I can put Hydrazine and HTP and that sort of stuff in the normal tanks, but when I make a procedural one, those options just no longer show up in the fuel list.

Edited April 23, 2016 by PTNLemay

[PTNLemay]

Sorry for the double post but this next question is really unrelated to my previous one.

I've been noticing a few crashes lately, and I've just not bothered to post them because... I don't really know how that works, but I'd like to take the effort and find out.  In the automatically generated error report window there are 4 different files.  

crash.dmp error.log output_log.txt and report.ini

Which of these do I post to help you guys find and repair bugs?   Or even just track down what it is that keeps crashing my game.  It happens maybe... 1 out of 3 times I play.

 

Another related question is that, I've been thinking of lightening my install somewhat.  I find that there are a lot of mods that are included that I never use.  But I don't want to remove anything that is a big dependency on the mods I want to keep.  I know when I first started up CKAN it clearly labelled mods as "depends" and "recommends", but now that everything is already installed, I'm not sure where these are listed.

For example, which is the mod that creates a million different launch sites?  I really don't need that one, can I uninstall it and not have the rest my career bug out?

Edited April 23, 2016 by PTNLemay

[NathanKell]

@PTNLemay It looks like you have an additional heat shield attached. Remove it, the capsule has a built in heat shield. Also try a 200km apogee, not 300km. Finally, I believe @Starwaster noticed an issue in the latest DRE regarding g-force limits, and you may be hitting that.

 

Regarding tanks: you need to change the tank type of the procedural tank to Fuselage or ServiceModule in order to add highly-pressurized propellants. Right-click on the tank you've placed and change its type.

 

The mod that creates the launch sites is KSCSwitcher. However the colored dots are from RemoteTech groundstations, and you need those for comms; they will exist even after you remove KSCSwitcher.