[0.90] KSP Interstellar port maintance thread

[micheal rosen]

also, it seems i cant get any of the reactors to go above 28% active, and i dont know why. AND I FIXED THE NOT UPGRADING THING!!! me, Mr. Stupid/bad with computers, somehow fixed it. it turns out when you open the config for any upgradeable parts, it has something like this:

MODULE

{

name = InterstellarTokamakFusionReator

ReactorTemp = 15513

PowerOutput = 2277

upgradedReactorTemp = 23078

upgradedPowerOutput = 6831

upgradedName = High-Q Tokamak

originalName = D-T Tokamak

upgradeTechReq = interstellarTechFusionPower2

upgradeCost = 200

radius = 2.5

animName = e6

minimumThrottle = 0.1

powerRequirements = 45.54

chargedParticleRatio = 0.2

consumeGlobal = true

reactorType = 4

upgradedReactorType = 8

fuelEfficiency = 0.99

upgradedFuelEfficiency = 0.99

}

you see the line "animName = e6" is the thing that was missing before, now on other parts that do upgrade they have e13 and e9, e-whatever, i just figured that because the generators upgraded, and they say e6, that i should put animName = e6 into the config, and it worked!!! it however the reactors do not go more than 28% active, which is odd. THIS ALSO FIXES THE THERMAL TURBOJETS!!!! SO HAPPY.

Edited February 1, 2015 by micheal rosen
spelling eror, amazing realisation

[FreeThinker]

I've done some further testing. In a new Sandbox campaign, everything works as it should. In a new Career campaign that I edited to have 100000 science, I unlocked KSPI nodes one by one, and then eventually the entire tech tree. At every step, the only generator that was ever upgraded was the 0.625m version, as above. I didn't check the radiators, but I'm guessing they're not upgrading either.

So it seems to be something wrong with KSPI recognising the upgraded tech node?

According to the source code, the check whether it can upgrade or not is the same for the editor as for retrofit (you do have to switch). The only thing that puzzles me is how the isupgraded flag (which determines if it's upgraded or not) is never changed by an retrofit, only available fuelmodes is upgraded, but they should get lost after you switch vessels. This means you have to upgrade every time you want to use it (paying with science). fixing should be real easy.

- - - Updated - - -

also, it seems i cant get any of the reactors to go above 28% active, and i dont know why. AND I FIXED THE NOT UPGRADING THING!!! me, Mr. Stupid/bad with computers, somehow fixed it. it turns out when you open the config for any upgradeable parts, it has something like this:

MODULE

{

name = InterstellarTokamakFusionReator

ReactorTemp = 15513

PowerOutput = 2277

upgradedReactorTemp = 23078

upgradedPowerOutput = 6831

upgradedName = High-Q Tokamak

originalName = D-T Tokamak

upgradeTechReq = interstellarTechFusionPower2

upgradeCost = 200

radius = 2.5

animName = e6

minimumThrottle = 0.1

powerRequirements = 45.54

chargedParticleRatio = 0.2

consumeGlobal = true

reactorType = 4

upgradedReactorType = 8

fuelEfficiency = 0.99

upgradedFuelEfficiency = 0.99

}

you see the line "animName = e6" is the thing that was missing before, now on other parts that do upgrade they have e13 and e9, e-whatever, i just figured that because the generators upgraded, and they say e6, that i should put animName = e6 into the config, and it worked!!! it however the reactors do not go more than 28% active, which is odd. THIS ALSO FIXES THE THERMAL TURBOJETS!!!! SO HAPPY.

Strange, as far as I can tell, animName is not used in any way in InterstellarTokamakFusionReator.

Edit: I can confirm it is not upgrading even though it should But I found a solution. After I deleted the CTT, the problem was solved. CTT (Community Tech Tree) with Techmanager, it must somehow effected the available techs in the save file .. strange

Edit2, ALright, I found the culprit of the problems, it's Olypic CTT config file which includes the following line:

@PART[FNFissionFusionCatReactor]:NEEDS[CommunityTechTree,TechManager]
{
    @TechRequired = highEnergyScience
    @MODULE[InterstellarCatalysedFissionFusion]
    {
        @upgradeTechReq = antimatterPower
    }
}

There are several other changes which can cause heavoc, you better remove his file!

I should have know better to install a config file specifically for CTT, I now realize it has cause several other issues as well which have buged me.

Edited February 1, 2015 by FreeThinker

[Aspen Space]

Hey Guys, I'm having a weird issue where my fuel tanks drain incredibly quickly on take off, no idea why but I think it's an interstellar issue.

Basically: All the rockets I create have strangely low Delta-V, the fuel drains incredibly quickly when I take off, whether it's LFO, Boosters, Etc. I know how to build efficient rockets, I've done plenty of extra planetary missions in differently modded versions so it's not a noob issue (I wish it was, because it's so confusing!)

Example: I had a .craft file from an unmodded KSP (Orbiter 1) that has about 4800 delta v, gets into orbit and back down great. I used it in a pretty heavily modded version later, same Delta-V good performance (With Ferram). Now with interstellar installed, it's listed as having 1300dV. I ran two versions at the same time to check and see what the hell was going on, and it turns out the fuel for some reason is draining super fast in the Interstellar modded version.

Solution: Could it be a tweak scale thing? Potentially an ORS, CRP thing? It has to do with the fuel so maybe resource mods, and it drains super fast so maybe tweak scale? No idea.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[Aspen Space]

Hey Guys, I'm having a weird issue where my fuel tanks drain incredibly quickly on take off, no idea why but I think it's an interstellar issue.

Basically: All the rockets I create have strangely low Delta-V, the fuel drains incredibly quickly when I take off, whether it's LFO, Boosters, Etc. I know how to build efficient rockets, I've done plenty of extra planetary missions in differently modded versions so it's not a noob issue (I wish it was, because it's so confusing!)

Example: I had a .craft file from an unmodded KSP (Orbiter 1) that has about 4800 delta v, gets into orbit and back down great. I used it in a pretty heavily modded version later, same Delta-V good performance (With Ferram). Now with interstellar installed, it's listed as having 1300dV. I ran two versions at the same time to check and see what the hell was going on, and it turns out the fuel for some reason is draining super fast in the Interstellar modded version.

Solution: Could it be a tweak scale thing? Potentially an ORS, CRP thing? It has to do with the fuel so maybe resource mods, and it drains super fast so maybe tweak scale? No idea.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Hey guys sorry if this seemed to be pointless since I just figured it out, but hopefully if anyone else has this problem they will find it here. I deleted my "Real Fuels" folder in my game data file. In the KSPI Extended Configuration patch it includes a patch for real fuels, which I didn't have installed. So it was processing the fuel as being a lot less than it was (I think).

[micheal rosen]

so, what should i do? i dont know what to delete, been looking for the community tech tree.

[LMC]

O.K... Both the radial D/T and H3 tanks are missing from my career mode. Checked their parts listing and they both list as TechRequired = nuclearFuelTank. Problem being there is no nuclearFuelTank in my tech tree. Did I miss a step somewhere? Using latest Version 0.13.6.

EDIT: Radial AM tank same thing.

Edited February 2, 2015 by LMC

[Snoman314]

Edit: I can confirm it is not upgrading even though it should But I found a solution. After I deleted the CTT, the problem was solved. CTT (Community Tech Tree) with Techmanager, it must somehow effected the available techs in the save file .. strange

Edit2, ALright, I found the culprit of the problems, it's Olypic CTT config file which includes the following line:

@PART[FNFissionFusionCatReactor]:NEEDS[CommunityTechTree,TechManager]
{
    @TechRequired = highEnergyScience
    @MODULE[InterstellarCatalysedFissionFusion]
    {
        @upgradeTechReq = antimatterPower
    }
}

There are several other changes which can cause heavoc, you better remove his file!

I should have know better to install a config file specifically for CTT, I now realize it has cause several other issues as well which have buged me.

Legend! Thankyou!

[Olympic1]

Sorry that you're experiencing problems with my CTT config, but I can use and upgrade everything when I researched the respective node.

I don't know if it's because I play on a heavily modded game or if it's something else. I will check it this afternoon.

[FreeThinker]

The next version KSPI Extended can be downloaded form KerbalStuff

Download & Installation

• First remove any existing WarpPlugin folder
  
• Second install Boris KSPI 0.90 & (optionally)BorisTweakscaleFix
  
• Third extract KSPI Extended configuration 0.5 into Your GameData folder (and allow to overwrite all files)
  

Changelog 0.5:

• Fixes KSPI Reactors Retrofit(upgrade) button
  
• Electric engine trust is affected by atmospheric pressure (-50% @ Kerbin surface)
  
• Added option to limit Electric engines by available power (activate by setting MatchDemandWithSupply in WarpPluginSettings.cfg)
  
• Distribution of power over multiple electric engines with different sizes is fixed
  

Edited February 2, 2015 by FreeThinker

[Olympic1]

Sorry that you're experiencing problems with my CTT config, but I can use and upgrade everything when I researched the respective node.

I don't know if it's because I play on a heavily modded game or if it's something else. I will check it this afternoon.

I reinstalled KSPI with the fix of Boris and FreeThinker and also reinstalled my CTT config. Everythings works just fine with the research and upgradable parts.

I will test on my other computer with only KSPI and my config.

[FreeThinker]

@Olympic When I maximize all technode in in the CTT techtree (with your mod installed), this is what I see :

As you can see, there aren't any higher fusion/antimater tech nodes that should have been available.

Why didn't they just use existing KSPI / Near future nodes, like I do in KSPI Near Future Integration Techtree, that would have prevented a lot of problems!

what you might want to do is rearrange CTT something more like this, rearrange existing KSPI & Near Future nodes to supplement each other. Notice that I didn't introduce any new nodes, I simply rearranged then into a cohered framework, which allow for a more satisfying tech progression experience. He big advantage is that it easy to switch or combines hem with existing techtrees.

Edited February 3, 2015 by FreeThinker

[Grunf911]

For me The thermal helper did not work, not sure why

[LMC]

Ah, fixed it! Had chosen UnofficialKSPI0 instead of KSPI_boris_090 for my tech tree! Thanks!

[etmoonshade]

Question for FreeThinker: What's the purpose of the RealFuels folder in your extended configuration mod? Because it's absolutely wreaking havoc with pretty much everything I have - first, Procedural Parts deletes everything but the "RealFuels" tank (which causes anything previously using those tanks to go poof.) Removing all the RF configs from the Procedural Parts folder fixed that, but then I go to land something only to find that monopropellant's density has changed. I've deleted all the RF-specific bits out of the RF resourcesfuel.cfg, but based on what I'm seeing in there, I question the need to have it at all.

[FreeThinker]

Question for FreeThinker: What's the purpose of the RealFuels folder in your extended configuration mod? Because it's absolutely wreaking havoc with pretty much everything I have - first, Procedural Parts deletes everything but the "RealFuels" tank (which causes anything previously using those tanks to go poof.) Removing all the RF configs from the Procedural Parts folder fixed that, but then I go to land something only to find that monopropellant's density has changed. I've deleted all the RF-specific bits out of the RF resourcesfuel.cfg, but based on what I'm seeing in there, I question the need to have it at all.

I'm sorry for your trouble. The purpose was maximum RF compatibility, but it seems I clearly misjudged the inpact on other mods that rely on a fully installed ornot RealFuels mod. I have fixed it in the the current version of KSPI Extended, which can be downloaded at Kerbalstuff. Note you still have to remove the RealFuels folder if you don't use it ...

Edited February 3, 2015 by FreeThinker

[Olympic1]

@Olympic When I maximize all technode in in the CTT techtree (with your mod installed), this is what I see :

http://i.imgur.com/Xy7WJ6k.jpg

As you can see, there aren't any higher fusion/antimater tech nodes that should have been available.

Why didn't they just use existing KSPI / Near future nodes, like I do in KSPI Near Future Integration Techtree, that would have prevented a lot of problems!

what you might want to do is rearrange CTT something more like this, rearrange existing KSPI & Near Future nodes to supplement each other. Notice that I didn't introduce any new nodes, I simply rearranged then into a cohered framework, which allow for a more satisfying tech progression experience. He big advantage is that it easy to switch or combines hem with existing techtrees.

http://i.imgur.com/QaT1Bm7.jpg

Then something is wrong with your save game, this is how my tech tree looks like.

If you already have a save game BEFORE you installed my CTT config and you didn't choose the CTT tech tree in the beginning, then the CTT nodes will not be available in other tech trees. You have to play with the CTT tech tree if you want to see my changes.

Edited February 3, 2015 by Olympic1

[FreeThinker]

Then something is wrong with your save game, this is how my tech tree looks like.

The problem is not my savegame, the problem is Techmanager in combination with your configuration file. If CTT used existing KSPI nodes, this would not have been a problem

Image here

where?

If you already have a save game BEFORE you installed my CTT config and you didn't choose the CTT tech tree in the beginning, then the CTT nodes will not be available in other tech trees. You have to play with the CTT tech tree if you want to see my changes.

I understand, but there wasn't any disclaimer that warned players not use CTT config with an existing KSPI campaign!!. Then again, it could all been prevented if CTT had simply used existing KSPI / Near Future nodes ID's, which would have allowed easy switching between Techtrees.

Now how are we going to solve the mess CTT created? Technically I see two solutions, either CTT renames it technodes to KSPI technodes, or KSPI renames it's nodes to CTT nodes. But KSPI has been around much longer, so it would have made sence if CTT used existing node names, which they did for stock KSP nodes but not for KSPI. The problems with incompatible technodes, is very similar to incompatible resources.

Edited February 3, 2015 by FreeThinker

[Olympic1]

The problem is not my savegame, the problem is Techmanager in combination with your configuration file.

My config doesn't have any issues with TechManager or CTT, I made the config like anyone else did using CTT. So if it works for those mods, it also works for KSPI.

If CTT used existing KSPI nodes, this would not have been a problem

...

Then again, it could all been prevented if CTT had simply used existing KSPI / Near Future nodes, which would have allowed easy switching between Techtrees.

CTT made their tech nodes with keeping in mind of the nodes that already existed, Nertea just gave them a shorter/other name. Also CTT didn't only made their nodes for expanding the stock tree, but also for making all mods using one tech tree. This is the same thing that CRP wants to do.

I understand, but there wasn't any disclaimer that warned players not use CTT config with an existing KSPI campaign!!.

Well it's obvious that if you install CTT you should stop using the KSPI tree, otherwise it has no use to install CTT if you want to keep playing with the KSPI tree.

Now how are we going to solve the mess CTT created? Technically I see two solutions, either CTT renames it technodes to KSPI technodes, or KSPI renames it's nodes to CTT nodes. But KSPI has been around much longer, so it would have made sence if CTT used existing node names, which they did for stock KSP nodes but not for KSPI. A possible third solution would be that Techmanager, would somehow allow nodes to be linked, that way if you enable an CTT technode, its equivalant KSPI technode would be enabled as well.

For the first solution see above.

For the second solution: KSPI should stop using its own tech tree and start using the Community Tech Tree.

[FreeThinker]

CTT made their tech nodes with keeping in mind of the nodes that already existed, Nertea just gave them a shorter/other name. Also CTT didn't only made their nodes for expanding the stock tree, but also for making all mods using one tech tree. This is the same thing that CRP wants to do.

No they didn't , they used similar names, but not the exact same technode ID's and that is whole the problem! It's an unofficial rule that mod makers should first look around for exisiting resource definitions, before they introduce a new resource that is identical but with a different ID. This is nothing more than common sence really, the same guiding principle should it be true for technode ID's.

KSPI should stop using its own tech tree and start using the Community Tech Tree.

As I see it, KSPI is a well respected Mod which have been around for quite some time and played by thousants of players. CTT is a new kid in town that should respect existing Mods, not kick them around and screw players by demanding they should use their technodes ID's. Technodes ID are very valuable, especialy the KSPI /NF ones, players have to pay them with a lot of Science (up to 10000). By introducing technodes ID's that are not compatible with other mod Technodes, CTT is effectively stealing players science, corrupt their game and waste Mod developers time!

By CTT do you mean Community Tech Tree? If thats the case I'm kinda of bummed, accidently broke my old save by installing NF Propulsion and CTT into existing KSPI tech tree. Already started new save and deleted backup of old one.

Obviously, there will be many more casualties like this player if something doesn't change. Instead of letting us be bullied by a mod unfriendly CTT, what we need is a Mod friendly CTT, that allows you to switch mod techtree's instead of forcing you to use one techtree that want to rule them all! Please don't let CTT become a Community Technode Terror!

Edited February 3, 2015 by FreeThinker

[Olympic1]

No they didn't , they used similar names, but not the exact same technode ID's and that is whole the problem! It's an unofficial rule that mod makers should first look around for exisiting resource definitions, before they introduce a new resource that is identical but with a different ID. This is nothing more than common sence really, the same guiding principle should it be true for technode ID's.

I didn't said that CTT uses the exact name, I said that "CTT made their tech nodes with keeping in mind of the nodes that already existed, Nertea just gave them a shorter/other name". Just like CRP (changing names).

As I see it, KSPI is a well respected Mod which have been around for quite some time and played by thousants of players. CTT is a new kid in town that should respect existing Mods, not kick them around and screw players by demanding they should use their technodes ID's. Technodes ID are very valuable, especialy the KSPI /NF ones, players have to pay them with a lot of Science (up to 10000). By introducing technodes ID's that are not compatible with other mod Technodes, CTT is effectively stealing players science, corrupt their game and waste Mod developers time!

CTT respected the mods and adjusted the node's name for other mods so you don't have a tech node with the name "interstellarTechAntimatterPower" but just "antimatterPower". Also mods don't demand players/mods to use their mod, they just want it to be used by players.

With the science cost I can agree, but you can change the cost with MM configs.

Obviously, there will be many more casualties like this player if something doesn't change. Instead of letting us be bullied by a mod unfriendly CTT, what we need is a Mod friendly CTT, that allows you to switch mod techtree's instead of forcing you to use one techtree that want to rule them all! Please don't let CTT become a Community Technode Terror!

CTT adds nodes from other mods so you don't have to install a specific mod that you don't want to use just to get a node called "interstellarTechAntimatterPower".

Just like other mods, KSPI has to adapt to the changing community/game. Example: What if Squad added the CTT tree to the base game, what then? You'll have to change your nodes to work nice with the game.

[Nertea]

*raises eyebrows*

CTT is supported by a lot more mods than KSPI's tree, and was developed in order to put any mod that wanted more nodes on the same, unified page. It literally contains every "type" of node that KSPI/NearFuture need and more besides. KSPI is literally the only incompatible "extension" tree (other ones redo things completely which is cool and different). I control the NearFuture techtree as well and I nuked it in favour of CTT. If you want to talk about standards, perhaps you should consider the most commonly used standard.

Not to mention that at the time CTT was being developed, KSPI was running on a cobbled-together port of TreeLoader which didn't play nice with anybody.

I mean, go ahead and make your own tree-ey thing and by all means have fun, but don't accuse me of tyranny and whine about me (and RoverDude, by extension) putting effort into trying to get everyone on the same page.

[Olympic1]

*raises eyebrows*

CTT is supported by a lot more mods than KSPI's tree, and was developed in order to put any mod that wanted more nodes on the same, unified page. It literally contains every "type" of node that KSPI/NearFuture need and more besides. KSPI is literally the only incompatible "extension" tree (other ones redo things completely which is cool and different). I control the NearFuture techtree as well and I nuked it in favour of CTT. If you want to talk about standards, perhaps you should consider the most commonly used standard.

Not to mention that at the time CTT was being developed, KSPI was running on a cobbled-together port of TreeLoader which didn't play nice with anybody.

I mean, go ahead and make your own tree-ey thing and by all means have fun, but don't accuse me of tyranny and whine about me (and RoverDude, by extension) putting effort into trying to get everyone on the same page.

Thx for explaining that, but I was just supporting CTT. Same for CRP and Regolith

[Yemo]

tl;dr

The necessity for a "common" inclusive tech tree is obvious and there will be casualties, but there is quite some room for casualty reduction from CTT side.

So, the stock tree is insufficient, KSPI tech tree lacks "compatibility" nodes (for eg base building), there are quite some other tech trees, but they do not include all the stock nodes for basic compatiblity due to more radical changes.

Imho, CTT is a good compromise, thats one of the reasons I support/use the CTT. From my point of view, enhanced survivability and recycling are too cheap, but I modded that with mm configs. There are some other things I would like to be different, but for an inclusive tech tree, excluding "too special" interests is key.

I can not comment in detail on the renaming of nodes compared to KSPI, it certainly makes the life of KSPI modders more difficult. If that was necessary/useful, I dont know.

I do know, that supporting two or even more "versions" of a mod is a nightmare, in terms of balancing and support. Since my mod uses the stock tech tree and the CTT, this problem is something I have to deal with, though not nearly at the scale of KSPI vs CTT.

Again weighing compatiblity vs my own vision, I tried to keep it manageable. If I personally would start to mod KSPI, with the experience I gained during the last weeks and especially the last days (MKS/OKS/Karbonite inclusion), I would honestly drop the KSPI tree itself I would require/support only the CTT. I wish I knew sooner, to give you a warning @FreeThinker.

Given the current situation, I would recommend to migrate to the CTT, since you do not have to deal with every compatibility yourself, other people will make their or other mods compatible with the CTT. Which saves quite a lot of time in the long run.

Now about the shortcomings/issues of the CTT at the moment.

While the CTT does a good job for compatibility, it certainly needs improvements in documentation/first user friendlyness, to prevent frustration among users and modders.

1. One of the reasons why I support it over other tech trees was, that it had an overview of the tree accessible from the forum thread. I could see how it progressed and what the nodes are called without having to install it, while most other trees only provide an ingame screenshot. Unfortunately, this overview is "hidden" behind a link.

It would be a great improvement if the overview could be more/directly visible in the CTT OP.

2. When I first tried the CTT, I had no idea how it worked. I did not know that I could not use it on an existing save, I did not know that selecting "stock KSP" ingame would just show the stock tree, without reassigning parts (since parts are assigned as soon as the CTT install is detected, regardless of your ingame selection).

So a visible disclaimer on how to use (and not use) the CTT is imho necessary to prevent quite some frustration.

Red highlighting right beside the download would be great (though even that is sometimes not enough, as I learned from my mods thread...)

I believe it is something like a perspective bias. People who are used to handle mods/tech trees often, forget that new users will not know something they themselves are very accustomed to.

Like not being able to use it on existing saves.

While some criticism might be too harsh/ill formulated, just discarding (imho legit) criticism without differentiation and sending people to do their own stuff leaves a bit of a sour taste as well.

There is some seniority creep going on in this forum, which is not a healthy development for a community.

And while we are on this issue, it is especially frustrating when there is a "community" label on a mod, and then legit "community" concerns are brushed off in that fashion.

The community is not only based on long term members who know their way around.

PS: And having said that, I will now take a look at my own disclaimers/documentation...

Edited February 3, 2015 by Yemo

[FreeThinker]

KSPI has to adapt to the changing community/game.

Given the current situation, I would recommend to migrate to the CTT, since you do not have to deal with every compatibility yourself, other people will make their or other mods compatible with the CTT. Which saves quite a lot of time in the long run.

Well I guess you are right, KSPI has to adapt to the new dynamic techtree environment, and CTT isn't so bad, there will be techtrees that give much more problems. In fact I would even be willing to support CTT actively. But understand that I cannot simply remove or change the existing KSPI techtree without breaking someone game. My main concern is that players with existing campaign can continue their game. So in order to facilitate this, I added a global setting (PartTechUpgrades in WarpPluginSettings.cfg) which can link any number of interstellar parts to alternative Technodes. For the moment I linked all hightech Interstellar parts to their original KSPI technodes. This should ensure players can continue to build and upgrade their Interstellar parts with whatever Techtree they desire.

You can download the new version of KSPI 0.90 Extended 0.5.1 with support for other techmanager techtrees at KerbalStuff.

Enjoy!

Edited February 3, 2015 by FreeThinker

[etmoonshade]

I'm sorry for your trouble. The purpose was maximum RF compatibility, but it seems I clearly misjudged the inpact on other mods that rely on a fully installed ornot RealFuels mod. I have fixed it in the the current version of KSPI Extended, which can be downloaded at Kerbalstuff. Note you still have to remove the RealFuels folder if you don't use it ...

Excellent - thank you. The steps I took sorted that problem, but it's good to know I can get rid of it entirely.

As a more general question, has anyone stumbled across a problem where your reactors continually run at 100% power when hooked to a generator? I finally hit the tech level where I get the graphene radiators so it isn't too horrible, but it'd be nice to conserve the fuel.