[0.90] KSP Interstellar port maintance thread

[Northstar1989]

First make sure you have a working KSPI 0.90 Boris installation (see OP) then download my mod, extract the contents into the GameData folder and allow everything to override, then you can profit!!

Any chance you could get Boris to add your config into his OP version? It seems that the changes are in line with the KSP-I mod, generally speaking...

Technically, if you have a (Real Fuel) CarbonDioxide Tank, and installed my patch corectly, you should already be able to scoop CarbonDioxide from the atmosphere (using the modified OSR definition file).

Nice- but can we actually do anything with the CO2 on the KSP-I side? Like use it to run a Sabatier Reactor in Duna orbit via CO2 collected on the suface, rather than having to send the ISRU refinery (and seed Hydrogen) all the way to the surface? (Theoretically this also would also work with PFA's, although good luck building a CO2 Propulsive Fluid Accumulator that gains more mass than it expends fighting drag... The best ISP you can get this way is from Methane/LOX propelled thermal rockets running off the Sabatier products...)

Also, just an idea that I've suggested before to Fractal_UK (he didn't want to implement it because of time constraints, and because he felt it would overwhelm players with too many possible ISRU reactions in a cluttered interface- this was BEFORE the ISRU interface overhaul that he implemented for precisely the reason of adding more reactions...), but this reminds me of the Solid Oxide CO2-Electrolysis (SOCE) reaction. Which turns CO2 directly into O2 and graphite residue (which is periodically cleaned off the electrolysis unit) The only problem with it is that it requires crew members to clean off the electrolyzers periodically. Nonetheless, it's made it into NASA's Design Reference Missions, as a SOCE unit is simpler and less massive than a Sabatier Reactor... The other option for CO2--> O2 with no consumption of H2 is the Reverse Water Gas Shift Reaction (CO2 + H2 --> CO + H2O) coupled with Water Electrolysis... (this is how Robert Zubrin wants to do Mars Direct)

See this study for more information on both reactions.

Yes, in the short term I will add a configuration setting that will allow you to scoop what ever is available with the Atmospheric Scoop. At high warp this should allow you to scoop any selected resource at a very slow rate. Later I tend implement also an off screen version that will retrieve multiple gases the moment processing is reactivated.

So the code isn't implemented yet? Any idea when it WILL be ready? I want to hold off on installing KSP-I a little bit until this is added, as PFA's take a LONG time to run at physical time-warp, and should be the first KSP-I project I attempt in my current RSS save... (where propellant costs in orbit are ENORMOUS at 7.5 km/s to LKO...)

Also, it would be helpful to have the code check for some sort of power-source (either a Microwave receiver or a generator+reactor or generator+thermal receiver) in addition to a plasma engine when deciding to allow an Atmospheric Scoop to work above the Karman Line (the edge of the atmosphere in KSP) to prevent exploits with unpowered plasma thrusters... Or maybe it's not worth the time- just let cheaters cheat- I dunno...

Regards,

Northstar

[FreeThinker]

So the code isn't implemented yet? Any idea when it WILL be ready? I want to hold off on installing KSP-I a little bit until this is added, as PFA's take a LONG time to run at physical time-warp, and should be the first KSP-I project I attempt in my current RSS save... (where propellant costs in orbit are ENORMOUS at 7.5 km/s to LKO...)

Also, it would be helpful to have the code check for some sort of power-source (either a Microwave receiver or a generator+reactor or generator+thermal receiver) in addition to a plasma engine when deciding to allow an Atmospheric Scoop to work above the Karman Line (the edge of the atmosphere in KSP) to prevent exploits with unpowered plasma thrusters... Or maybe it's not worth the time- just let cheaters cheat- I dunno...

No, I have already implemented offline Propulsive Fluid Accumulator and it includes several checks which verify you should have been able to perform the accumulation task (including power, max/min height, eccentricity, availability of electric engines). You can now simple park you refuel station at the edge of space, switch to space control/other vessels, return back after several days/weeks and you will be informed of the amount and type of resource you have Accumulated. If you also have a cryostat tank available and set to compression before you left, the accumulated resource will be converted to liquid form. To keep the GUI simple, If you want to collect multiple types of gas, you simply have to bring more Atmospheric Scoops configured for different types of Gas. This is an example what you will see when switching back

Edited January 25, 2015 by FreeThinker

[FreeThinker]

Alright you can download the new KSPI 0.90 Extended 0.4.1 from Kerbalstuff

Features

• Added ability of Atmospheric Scoop to function as Propulsive fluid accumulator which can be achieved by placing a vessel in a circular orbit at the edge of space (+/-10%) with access to KSPI plasma engines and enough power to counter the simulated drag
  
• Added many new configuration settings including MaxThermalNozzleIsp, RadiationMechanicsDisabled
  
• Added Liquid Nitrogen en (RealFuels) Nitrogen as a resource which can be used for Thermal/Magnetic/Electric Rockets
  
• Added Cryotank which stores Liquid Nitrogen at low temperature, requiring electric power to maintain
  
• Added Integrated Nitrogen Radiator which stores Nitrogen gas and can perform Active cooling with Liquid Nitrogen
  
• Nitrogen can be scooped from the atmosphere with Atmospheric Scoop
  
• Improved Science Lab research : Profession & Skill now matter (+/- 50%) , effect of stupidity reduced (+/- 10%)
  
• Improved Science Lab feedback, it will at real time show how much science is already collected
  

Installation

• First remove any existing KSP Interstellar folder (WarpPlugin in GameData)
  
• Second install KSPI 0.90
  
• Third extract this patch into Your GameData folder.
  

Changelog

Edit: updated 1.4.1 hotfix which is required to play with the realfuel Nitrogen

Edited January 25, 2015 by FreeThinker

[Olympic1]

Alright you can download the new KSPI 0.90 patch from Kerbalstuff

Features

• Added ability of Atmospheric Scoop to function as Propulsive fluid accumulator which can be achieved by placing a vessel in a circular orbit at the edge of space with access to KSPI plasma engines and enough power.
  
• Added many new configuration settings including MaxThermalNozzleIsp, RadiationMechanicsDisabled
  
• Added Liquid Nitrogen en (RealFuels) Nitrogen as a resource which can be used for Thermal/Magnetic/Electric Rockets
  
• Added Cryotank which stores Liquid Nitrogen at low temperature, requiring electric power to maintain
  
• Added Integrated Nitrogen Radiator which stores Nitrogen gas and can perform Active cooling with Liquid Nitrogen
  
• Nitrogen can be scooped from the atmosphere with Atmospheric Scoop
  
• Improved Science Lab research : Profession & Skill now matter (+/- 50%) , effect of stupidity reduced (+/- 10%)
  
• Improved Science Lab feedback, it will at real time show how much science is already collected
  

Installation

• First remove any existing KSP Interstellar folder (WarpPlugin in GameData)
  
• Second install KSPI 0.90
  
• Third extract this patch into Your GameData folder.
  

Changelog

Does your patch change any parts? This is because I'm working on a CTT config

[FrostX1]

Is this fix still working?

[Olympic1]

Is this fix still working?

of course .

[yafeshan]

Thanks for great patch. KSPI is a must have mod for my kerbal, I was dissapointed when i couldn't play it in 0.90. I even kept my version at 0.25. Then I saw your awesome patch . I worked hard with new career and reached antimatter stuf but I have a problem that kills my game.

My problem;

My antimatter tanks are absurdly expensive for some reason. I did some search on this and other related threads. It was reported and fixed said to be fixed before. I tried many things to solve but it stays same.

Fixed:I deleted everything related with KSPI and MKS-Karbonite-CRP and installed their last versions. solved the problem

Edited January 25, 2015 by yafeshan
fixed bug

[FreeThinker]

Does your patch change any parts? This is because I'm working on a CTT config

No it doesn't change any existing part files. What It does change is the number of resources that can be used for propulsion and can be collected from the atmosphere. It also Introduces Liquid Nitrogen as an New resourse and uses an existing one (realfuels) Nitrogen (gas) and add a few new fuel tanks to store them.

[Olympic1]

No it doesn't change any existing part files. What It does change is the number of resources that can be used for propulsion and can be collected from the atmosphere. It also Introduces Liquid Nitrogen as an New resourse and uses an existing one (realfuels) Nitrogen (gas) and add a few new fuel tanks to store them.

Ok, then I can integrate your fix into my CTT support

[Atrius129]

-Snip-

Features

• Added ability of Atmospheric Scoop to function as Propulsive fluid accumulator which can be achieved by placing a vessel in a circular orbit at the edge of space with access to KSPI plasma engines and enough power

What actually constitutes as the edge of space? How close to you have to be? Does it scale at all with other planets or is it a set distance above the Karman line?

Why do you need plasma thrusters to make this work if you are already in orbit?

[FrostX1]

I'm having an issue with the tech tree. I get to electronics 1 buy it and the game crashes.

[Atrius129]

I'm having an issue with the tech tree. I get to electronics 1 buy it and the game crashes.

Make sure TechManager is installed and that there is NO Treeloader folder in GameData.

[FreeThinker]

What actually constitutes as the edge of space? How close to you have to be? Does it scale at all with other planets or is it a set distance above the Karman line?

Why do you need plasma thrusters to make this work if you are already in orbit?

• By edge of space, I mean the (artificial) KSP border where the atmosphere ends and space starts. For Kerbin this is at 70.000 meter , but it should scale with any planet/moon or Mod that increase the overall scale.
  
• With the current configuration setting (MaxAtmosphericAltitudeMult) your location must be within 10% at the edge of space. For Kerbin this is between 63000 - 77000 meter. You eccentricity must be less than 0.1 to qualify at an epileptic orbit.
  
• Plasma thusters are required to counter the (simulated) drag. Even though KSP does not simulate real drag, we pretend it does. Plasma engines have high enough ISP to use less fuel than is required to keep the vessel in the same orbit.
  

Edited January 27, 2015 by FreeThinker

[Atrius129]

• By edge of space, I mean the (artificial) KSP border where the atmosphere ends and space starts. For Kerbin this 70.000 meter , but it should scale which any planet/moon.
  
• With the current configuration setting (MaxAtmosphericAltitudeMult) your location must be within 10% at the edge of space. For Kerbin this is between 63000 - 77000 meter. You eccentricity must be less than 0.1 to qualify at an epileptic orbit.
  

Thank you for answering. That is an awesome feature. It would be good to include the 10% info in your release data. Any word as to why the plasma thrusters are needed when you are already in orbit?

[Olympic1]

Sorry for the delay on the CTT support but school comes first.

It's all done now, the only thing left is to test it.

Here is the CTT config you're all be waiting for. I tested it and it plays nicely with MKS/OKS, Karbonite, ...

It is spread over the whole tech tree, starting fom tier 5.

If you have any suggestions for changing a parts node, please let me know via PM or via the KSPI thread.

DOWNLOAD

404!

We can't find what you're looking for!

heavierRocketry

name = 25PureLiquidTank

advElectrics

name = circradiatorKT

name = circradiatorKT2

name = circradiatorKT3

name = SmallFlatRadiator

name = LargeFlatRadiator

name = RadialRadiatorzzz

name = RadialRadiatorzzz2

nuclearPower

name = NuclearReactor0625

name = NuclearReactor125

name = FNPFissionReactor0625

name = FNPFissionReactor125

highAltitudeFlight

name = ThermalTurbojet

name = ThermalTurbojet2

name = warpAtmIntake

name = warpAtmIntake2

ionPropulsion

name = BigXenonTank

largeElectrics

name = tinyBrayton

name = Brayton1

name = radiator0

name = radiator1

name = radiator2

electronics

name = FNDeuteriumCryostat

name = FNDeuteriumCryostat2

name = FNHeliumCryostat

name = DTMagnetometer

name = sensorGammaRaySpectrometer

resourceUtilization

name = FNAmmoniaTank

name = FNLiquidWaterTank

name = FNInlineRefinery

nuclearFuelSystems

name = HexCanThoriumFl4

name = HexCanUraniumFl6

name = HexCanUraniumN

largeNuclearPower

name = NuclearReactor250

name = FNPFissionReactor250

improvedNuclearPropulsion

name = smallerThermalRocketNozzle

name = smallThermalRocketNozzle

veryHeavyRocketry

name = AluminiumHybrid1

name = 375PureLiquidTank

hypersonicFlight

name = atmosphericScoop

name = atmosphericScoop2

name = radial_atmospheric_scoop1

name = radial_atmospheric_scoop2

advIonPropulsion

name = FNSmallerAugmentedArcjet

name = FNSmallAugmentedArcjet

specializedElectrics

name = Brayton2

advScienceTech

name = scienceModule

name = FNGCMS

name = FNLCMS

offworldMining

name = FNRefinery

name = FNInlineRefineryLarge

advNuclearPower

name = NuclearReactor375

name = FNPFissionReactor375

advNuclearPropulsion

name = ThermalRocketNozzle

name = bigThermalRocketNozzle

experimentalRocketry

name = FNMethaneEngine

name = FNMethaneTank3-1

name = FNMethaneTank3-2

automation

name = computerCore

plasmaPropulsion

name = smallerMPD

name = smallMPD

name = MPD

experimentalElectrics

name = Brayton3

cuttingEdgeSolarTech

name = SM-Solar-Sail

experimentalScience

name = FNIRTelescope

nuclearSupport

name = HexCanLithium

name = HexCanDeutTritLarge

name = HexCanHe3Large

fusionPower

name = FusionReactor250

name = FusionReactor375

fusionRockets

name = vista

advPlasmaPropulsion

name = KSPIMagneticNozzle1

name = KSPIMagneticNozzle2

name = KSPIMagneticNozzle3

electricalSystems

name = microwaveTransmitter

name = microwaveReceiver

name = microwaveReceiver_micro

exoticReactions

name = AntimatterCollector

name = FusionReactor0625

name = FusionReactor125

powerTransmission

name = microwaveThermalEnergyReceiverS

name = microwaveThermalEnergyReceiverM

name = microwaveThermalEnergyReceiverL

name = phasedArray1

highEnergyScience

name = FNAntimatterBottle

name = AntimatterTank125

name = AntimatterTank250

name = AntimatterTank375

name = FNFissionFusionCatReactor

antimatterPower

name = AntimatterReactor125

name = AntimatterReactor250

name = AntimatterReactor375

ultraHighEnergyPhysics

name = WarpDrive

name = WarpDrive2

name = WarpDrive3

[zsternhagen]

Here is the CTT config you're all be waiting for. I tested it and it plays nicely with MKS/OKS, Karbonite, ...

It is spread over the whole tech tree, starting fom tier 5.

If you have any suggestions for changing a parts node, please let me know via PM or via the KSPI thread.

By CTT do you mean Community Tech Tree? If thats the case I'm kinda of bummed, accidently broke my old save by installing NF Propulsion and CTT into existing KSPI tech tree. Already started new save and deleted backup of old one.

[Northstar1989]

Any word as to why the plasma thrusters are needed when you are already in orbit?

I can answer that!

To understand why you need thrust to maintain an orbit, you need to understand that the line between "space" and the "atmosphere" is entirely arbitrary- it doesn't abruptly cut off at some altitude, like in KSP. The Karman Line (100 km in real life) is one arbitrary distinction between the two that is used in real life, because orbits below it are highly unstable. It roughly corresponds to the edge of the atmosphere in KSP (70km- but the scale height of Kerbin is 5 km, whereas Earth's is 7.64 km). Actually, the atmospheric density at Kerbin sea level is about 1.2 times that of Earth sea level when using FAR, if I remember correctly- which would mean 70 km is just about right for the Karman Line. Don't quote me on that last one.

Anyways, 70 km in KSP acts like the Karman Line in real life in that it is the point where atmospheric gas behavior starts to change significantly (going inwards towards the Earth), reaching a sufficient density to allow for effects like compression-drag and aerodynamic-lift... So there is MUCH more drag below the Karman Line than above it. But there is still drag *above* the Karman Line, because there is still atmosphere. In fact, the Thermosphere doesn't even end until about 1000 km above the surface- placing the International Space Station squarely in the middle of it. There is still atmosphere around the ISS (though not enough to stop your blood from boiling and your skin from simultaneously freezing and exploding due to the incredibly low pressure), and this is a big part of the reason it requires regular "station-keeping" burns- to counteract that drag! (there are also instability effects from the Moon's gravity and the solar wind, among other effects...)

Anyways, a Propulsive Fluid Accumulator operates within the Thermosphere, and still encounters some drag from the extremely low density of gasses at this altitude. In fact, it couldn't operate at all without these gasses- as the whole point is to collect them for propulsion!

In order to counteract that drag, the Propulsive Fluid Accumulator requires some form of thrust. In order for it to expend less fuel than it gathers, it requires a high-ISP engine like a Helicon Double Layer Nitrogen-electric Plasma Thruster... Although the balance between drag and gas pressure DOES become more favorable at higher altitudes as gas behavior changes with decreasing density (allowing PFA's to profitably be deployed above 150 km with solar panels instead of nuclear reactors, for instance), the gasses of the Thermosphere also layer according to molecular mass- so there is an upper limit to how high up you can operate and still collect Nitrogen (rather than lighter molecules/atoms like Methane, Helium, and Hydrogen...)

Regards,

Northstar

[Atrius129]

I can answer that!

-Snip-

Oh yeah, I understand why you would need to in a real world application (where Karman line is 100km, but you still experience atmospheric drag for several hundred more km), I just didn't understand gamewise since you don't actually need ÃŽâ€v to stay in orbit past 70km.

So I would like to harvest Hydrogen and Deuterium from around Jool for my Vistas and Thermal Rockets. Could we make this viable for more than just plasma engines?

Also, it would be really nice to see the use of LN2 as cold gas thrusters.

[Northstar1989]

Oh yeah, I understand why you would need to in a real world application (where Karman line is 100km, but you still experience atmospheric drag for several hundred more km), I just didn't understand gamewise since you don't actually need ÃŽâ€v to stay in orbit past 70km.

It's for balance reasons, mostly. And, it's realistic.

So I would like to harvest Hydrogen and Deuterium from around Jool for my Vistas and Thermal Rockets. Could we make this viable for more than just plasma engines?

See the above. Thermal rockets shouldn't be capable of sustaining a Propulsive Fluid Accumulator... I guess I could see reasoning for allow a Vista to do the job, but a Vista engine seems like drastic overkill for station-keeping a PFA satellite. Why don't you just set up a small, specialized satellite with the job of collecting these resources (the code for scooping gasses above the atmosphere should work for more than just N2, right FreeThinker?), and a depot in a higher orbit for storing them and refueling interplanetary vessels? That's basically how a real life Propulsive Fluid Accumulator scheme would work... Scooping Hydrogen off Jupiter should be equally possible in real life, if the H2 is used for plasma thrusters, by the way...

Also, it would be really nice to see the use of LN2 as cold gas thrusters.

You mean RCS? Adding additional RCS fuels is a little beyond the scope of KSP-Interstellar, but if you're interested in that, RealFuels+Stockalike already has a module that uses Nitrogen (the compressed gas, not the cryogenic form) as an RCS propellant. You can also use Hydrogen Peroxide (aka. HTP, which is already consolidated with the KSP-Interstellar version of the resource by the RealFuels/KSP-I integration config built into RealFuels...) or the bipropellant combination of MMH/N2O4 as RCS propellants as well...

Speaking of which, if you're interested FreeThinker, adding support to manufacture RealFuels hypergolic propellants from Nitrogen, Carbon Dioxide, and Hydrogen in various proportions (all resources in both RealFuels and KSP-Interstellar, albeit with different names) would be AWESOME.

All RealFuels (and real life) hypergolic fuel components (as opposed to the oxidizer, N2O4) are derived from Hydrazine (N2H4), with varying amounts of methylation (basically, adding -CH3 groups) for the Hydrazine determining the difference between MMH (one -CH3 group), UDMH (two -CH3 groups), and Aerozine... (which is really just a blend of MMH and UDMH- and is in fact often prepared by simply mixing the two)

All that is needed as feedstocks for these reactions are sources of Nitrogen, Hydrogen, and Carbon- which can all be found in the various atmospheres modeled in KSP-Interstellar... (although it might be wise to carry Ammonia to Duna as a Nitrogen and Hydrogen-source, Carbon Dioxide from Laythe to Jool, or scooped Hydrogen from Jool orbit to Laythe orbit, due to the limiting concentrations of certain elements in each atmosphere...)

Regards,

Northstar

P.S. The atmosphere of Mars is 1.9% Nitrogen, so it *should* be possible to manufacture hypergolic propellants there entirely out of local resources, assuming an adequate local source of Hydrogen can be found... (and without any of the active-cooling requirements of "mildly" cryogenic fuels like LiquidMethane/Liquid Oxygen) Similarly, I should think Duna's atmosphere contains at least some Nitrogen- does it?

Edited January 26, 2015 by Northstar1989

[FreeThinker]

Speaking of which, if you're interested FreeThinker, adding support to manufacture RealFuels hypergolic propellants from Nitrogen, Carbon Dioxide, and Hydrogen in various proportions (all resources in both RealFuels and KSP-Interstellar, albeit with different names) would be AWESOME.

I have investigated this already and I think I can get KSPI to support many more resources without over-cluttering (by using smart detection). this should allow you to collect Hydrogen/Liquid Hydrogen/ LqdHydrogen (what ever resource storage is available) from the Atmosphere instead of Liquid Fuel (=Kerosine) which in my view is an abomination!

[Olympic1]

By CTT do you mean Community Tech Tree? If thats the case I'm kinda of bummed, accidently broke my old save by installing NF Propulsion and CTT into existing KSPI tech tree. Already started new save and deleted backup of old one.

sorry to hear that, and yes I meant Community Tech Tree

[Northstar1989]

I have investigated this already and I think I can get KSPI to support many more resources without over-cluttering (by using smart detection). this should allow you to collect Hydrogen/Liquid Hydrogen/ LqdHydrogen (what ever resource storage is available) from the Atmosphere instead of Liquid Fuel (=Kerosine) which in my view is an abomination!

That's GREAT that you think you can get KSP-I to support more resources w/o clutter using "smart detection"!

I assume you mean that collecting LiquidFuel is an abomination?

Fractal_UK just assumes LiquidFuel represents Hydrogen, although you're right its performance is in many ways more similar to Kerosene. The RealFuels+KSP-I integration config already replaces LiquidFuel with LH2 (Liquid Hydrogen) whenever you can gather or require LiquidFuel in normal KSP-I, though, so a substitution for this case might not be useful... (and in fact could break KSP-I/RealFuels compatibility)

Also, just confirmation: so will the Propulsive Fluid Accumulator mechanic also work with other gasses, like Hydrogen on Jool, or Oxygen/Oxidizer on Kerbin? (with a plasma engine, it can be assumed the craft is collecting enough Nitrogen to cancel drag, and surplus Oxygen for other uses...) Speaking of the latter, is it possible to collect BOTH Nitrogen and Oxygen/Oxidizer at the same time with a single Atmospheric Scoop? OR do I need to alternate between the two if I want both resources?

EDIT: Looks like I missed this post before. An IMPORTANT question though- is it possible to run the Propulsive Fluid Accumulator off Microwave Beamed Power? It *SHOULD* be- in fact this is one of the major ways to power PFA's suggested in real life (one plan- "PHARO"- called for solar power satellites in higher orbits beaming microwave power down to the Propulsive fluid Accumulator, to avoid having to launch nuclear reactors or beam large amounts of power up from the surface and through the atmosphere... It is actually mentioned briefly by the Wikipedia article on Propulsive Fluid Accumulators...)

Regards,

Northstar

P.S. I created a thread about Propulsive Fluid Accumulators on the Science Labs some time ago. I'm thinking about reviving it, now that we finally have a working version of KSP-Interstellar which allows for Nitrogen-electric Propulsive Fluid Accumulators... Feel free to check it out and comment on it...

- - - Updated - - -

Freethinker,

One more thing- whenever you reach a point where you feel this is ready (all the bugs have been wiped out, if any should appear, all the features you want to add have been integrated, etc.) I *HIGHLY* suggest making a pull request on the Github for the main KSP-Interstellar version so that Fractal_UK can integrate it if he wants, as well as a post on the main thread asking him to do so (although he'll likely miss the post even if you address it with @Fractal_UK as he has been gone for a long time and has much to catch up on...)

Also, could you see about getting Boris to integrate this into his main 0.90 port? I see no reasons these tweaks/features/bugfixes shouldn't be part of the main 0.90 portm and it increases the likelihood of them making it into the main version of KSP-Interstellar when Fractal_UK returns...

Regards,

Northstar

Edited January 26, 2015 by Northstar1989

[FreeThinker]

EDIT: Looks like I missed this post before. An IMPORTANT question though- is it possible to run the Propulsive Fluid Accumulator off Microwave Beamed Power? It *SHOULD* be- in fact this is one of the major ways to power PFA's suggested in real life (one plan- "PHARO"- called for solar power satellites in higher orbits beaming microwave power down to the Propulsive fluid Accumulator, to avoid having to launch nuclear reactors or beam large amounts of power up from the surface and through the atmosphere... It is actually mentioned briefly by the Wikipedia article on Propulsive Fluid Accumulators...)

Technicaly, it shouldn't matter what powers the Admospheric Scoop, all what it realy does is is apply the percentage of power which was applied before the vessel became unfoccused. This means that If you make sure your vessel is in an circular orbit (<0.1 essentricity) near the edge of space and the admospheric scoop is fully powered the moment you put it on rails, it will assume it will continue to collect resources untill the vessel get's back into focus at which point you recieve a percentage (currently 95%) of the amount of resource you would have collected if you would have stayed with the vessel.

Edited January 26, 2015 by FreeThinker

[Northstar1989]

Sorry for the solid wall of text, but two more things:

@FreeThinker

You should deleted the "Asteroid" and "Resources" .CFG files from the Regolith folder you included in the Extension config. I understand you need the Regolith .DLL for the ability to make Atmospheric Scoops work just outside the atmosphere, but you don't need the "Asteroid" or "Resources" files- which refer solely to asteroid-mining for resources. If players want to utilize that mechanic of Karbonite (which might be wise, since SQUAD has announced they will be using Regolith/Karbonite as a framework for some parts of their ISRU system, particularly when it comes to asteroid-mining), they can install Karbonite separately, and overwrite the Regolith folder with the more complete one including these files. Personally, I don't play with Karbonite, and don't need to waste a single Byte of disk space on my pathetically weak laptop (which currently has jsut over 1 GB of free disk space...)

@Boris

The KSP-Interstellar 0.90 port download should be updated to include the ModuleManager 2.5.8 .DLL instead of the 2.5.6 .DLL as older versions being present can create issues with the proper functioning of newer versions, and 2.5.8 is requited for some other mods. I assume KSP-Interstellar 0.90 still works correctly with MM 2.5.8 instead of 2.5.6? If not, I'm about to find out *VERY* soon, as I just installed the port (and FreeThinker's Extension Config- which I ardently suggest you integrate into the main 0.90 port version) and am about to run KSP for the first time since adding the new mods...

Regards,

Northstar

- - - Updated - - -

Technicaly, it shouldn't matter what powers the Admospheric Scoop, all what it realy does is is apply the percentage of power which was applied before the vessel became unfoccused. This means that If you make sure your vessel is in an elyptic orbit near the edge of space and the admospheric scoop is fully powered the moment you put it on rails, it will assume it will continue to collect resources untill until vessel get's back into focus at which point you recieve a percentage (currently 95%) of the amount of resource you would have collected if you would have stayed with the vessel.

Wait a second- is it an elliptical orbit or a circular orbit the Atmospheric Scoop needs to function correctly?

I made a point of indicating before that circular orbits work *better* for Propulsive Fluid Accumulators, because it means they have a lower average velocity when they are close enough to the planet to scoop significant amounts of the desired gasses (which for a low circular orbit, is all the time- whereas an elliptical orbit may pass in and out of this region), resulting in lower atmospheric drag. Objects in circular orbits are also slightly easier to target (with Microwave Beamed Power or communication systems) and communicate with, and there's no point in expending the energy putting a Propulsive Fluid Accumulator in anything higher than a circular orbit *just* above the atmosphere in the first place...

When operating *below* the Karman line for part/all of the orbit, it's a slightly different case- because an elliptical orbit allows you to spend part of your time outside the atmosphere, making up the velocity you lose when near periapsis with your plasma thrusters. This allows a Propulsive Fluid Accumulator to get by on less thrust/power, but actually hurts the energy-efficiency per unit of gas collected (you might scoop 50% the gas for 75% the electrical requirements, to give some arbitrary numbers) as you benefit more from the Oberth Effect when traveling faster, and a low circular orbit has a higher average velocity and lower average altitude than an elliptical orbit with a higher Semi-Major Axis...

But the bottom line is this: if you have enough power to run your plasma thrusters on a high enough setting to counteract drag at the same rate it is occurring, a low circular orbit is *always* more efficient for collecting a single type of gas (see my note below). An elliptical orbit is only desirable for collecting just one gas when your thrust is exceeded by drag at your target scooping altitude...

Regards,

Northstar

P.S. There's one other potential advantage of an elliptical orbit. In the Thermosphere, gasses layer according to molecular mass, with lighter elements/molecules being found further up. So, with an elliptical orbit you can pass through the regions for multiple different gasses (say diatomic Nitrogen and ionized elemental Hydrogen) and collect several different resources with a single Propulsive Fluid Accumulator without having to perform burns to move to different orbital altitudes... However modeling different layers for different gasses above the Karman Line is a rather involved project (basically on the order of complexity of when Fractal_UK added magnetic field lines around the planets to determine Antimatter concentrations and radiation exposure), and not something I have the nerve to request you add into the Extension Config... (it may not even be worth the additional RAM usage from a gameplay perspective, considering how little of a Delta-V difference there is between the different Thermosphere layers...)

Edited January 26, 2015 by Northstar1989

[FreeThinker]

One more thing- whenever you reach a point where you feel this is ready (all the bugs have been wiped out, if any should appear, all the features you want to add have been integrated, etc.) I *HIGHLY* suggest making a pull request on the Github for the main KSP-Interstellar version so that Fractal_UK can integrate it if he wants, as well as a post on the main thread asking him to do so (although he'll likely miss the post even if you address it with @Fractal_UK as he has been gone for a long time and has much to catch up on...)

Also, could you see about getting Boris to integrate this into his main 0.90 port? I see no reasons these tweaks/features/bugfixes shouldn't be part of the main 0.90 portm and it increases the likelihood of them making it into the main version of KSP-Interstellar when Fractal_UK returns...

Well it has been my intention from the start to do this. I discussed it with Borus and he suggested to integrate as soon as he has the time. The last thing I want is to create 2 code bases that go seperate ways, I only want to differ in configuration/balance, that's why it's called "extended configuration": it extends the plugin with additional configuration settings which can be used to create mods. One thing that would realy help is if people who actually downloaded my patch, to report their findings! There have been over 200 downloads an not a single bug report, or a conformation that it works (except for a quick configuration setting that disables radiation simulation). So please people, report your findings!

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Wait a second- is it an elliptical orbit or a circular orbit the Atmospheric Scoop needs to function correctly?

Sorry, I ment circular orbit, to be more precise, I check is the essentricity of the vessel is smaller than 0.1

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You should deleted the "Asteroid" and "Resources" .CFG files from the Regolith folder you included in the Extension config. I understand you need the Regolith .DLL for the ability to make Atmospheric Scoops work just outside the atmosphere, but you don't need the "Asteroid" or "Resources" files- which refer solely to asteroid-mining for resources.

Good find, I will fix it in my next release

Edited January 27, 2015 by FreeThinker