[1.3.x] SETI, Unmanned before Manned [Patreon]

[Venusgate]

I have a difficulty.

I downloaded the procedural parts mod, and pruned as best i could, given the new squad parts format, but I don't have procedural SRBs up front, and cant see proceedural fuel tanks in the first few nodes.

Ideas?

[goldenpsp]

I have a difficulty.

I downloaded the procedural parts mod, and pruned as best i could, given the new squad parts format, but I don't have procedural SRBs up front, and cant see proceedural fuel tanks in the first few nodes.

Ideas?

Please note that at the moment, only stock parts are directly supported/changed. All the other gameplay and part mods work as they do without SETI.

Further back in the thread

[Yemo]

SETI-CTT 0.8.2

Be sure to have CTT 2.1 installed!

New Hybrid Rocket Booster @basicRocketry by Lord Aurelius

TechTree changes

• New earlyAviation node between basicRocketry and engineering101
  
• All tier 2 nodes cost 16 science
  
• Mk1 cockpit, fragile landing gear and other early aviation parts moved there
  
• Shuffled around lots of other parts within the early nodes
  
• TurboJet earlier @supersonicFlight
  
• Rapier earlier @hypersonicFlight
  

Part Rebalancing

• Though I want to keep this primarily a TechTree mod, I will rebalance some of the worst inconsistencies
  
• Especially if they concern science/probe/mannedSpaceflight progression/balance
  
• Struts and Fuel lines are massless again, sorry, but 50kg per strut is annoying
  
• Especially since it is dependent on the first connection point, thus does not necessary vanish with decoupling
  
• Z-100 and Z-400 battery models rescaled based on SETI-BalanceMod, no stat changes
  
• Probe Cores have 200 integrated EC storage
  
• Probe Cores have an integrated antenna (to reduce pressure on VAB/SPH part limit)
  

SETI-CTT Mod Support

• K2 command pod for 2 kerbals @basicCommandModules
  
• ALCOR ultra IVA lander @heavyCommandModules
  
• Kerbal Aircraft Expansion - radial Prop @earlyAvionics
  

Mod Support: USI Life Support

• Tech node changes roughly provide similar relative distance to first command pod, compared to stock/CTT
  
• First containers @recycling - 90science
  
• Large container @earlyOrbitalStations - 160science
  
• Greenhouse @orbitalStations - 300 science
  
• NO part rebalances (and none are planned)
  

Mod Support: RemoteTech

• Since probes are an essential part of the progression, I included most of the changes from SETI-BalanceMod
  
• Probe Cores have 160km integrated omni-antenna
  
• DP-10 rebalanced for 1.2Mm range
  
• Masses of dishes and antennas rebalanced
  
• TechTree positions changed for progression purposes
  
• KR-8 18Gm dish config from SETI-BalanceMod is back as well
  
• Probe cores provide 2 kerbal remote control
  

The rest of the planned stuff from the last page will have to wait for the next version. I just wanted to get this patch out as soon as possible, since RemoteTech is now officially available for 1.0.2.

Also the HRB from Lord Aurelius and the new tech node at the start were priorities for the very early game. And those 50kg per strut were really annoying me, especially because the mass stayed on the part from which the strut originated, even after decoupling and "breaking" the strut...

If you have any suggestions for changes regarding part positioning in the tech tree or other things, nothing is set in stone (except for a probe core at the start ).

Edited May 9, 2015 by Yemo

[Svm420]

I do miss the balance changes especially the RT and electric, and hope once things settle 1.0 will start to feel like an improved 0.90 SETI career. Thanks for the update Yemo!

[GrimerX]

Part Rebalancing

• Though I want to keep this primarily a TechTree mod, I will rebalance some of the worst inconsistencies
  
• Especially if they concern science/probe/mannedSpaceflight progression/balance
  
• Struts and Fuel lines are massless again, sorry, but 50kg per strut is annoying
  
• Especially since it is dependent on the first connection point, thus does not necessary vanish with decoupling
  
• Z-100 and Z-400 battery models rescaled based on SETI-BalanceMod, no stat changes
  
• Probe Cores have 200 integrated EC storage
  
• Probe Cores have an integrated antenna (to reduce pressure on VAB/SPH part limit)
  

I just wanted to give feedback on this. I'd prefer if you'd keep the balancing separate from the CTT mod, even if it means creating a 'mini' balance mod. Basically because it messes with my rocket designs - they become non-usable (or at least require tweakage) outside of the mod. I want the mod for the way it handles progression, not really for other changes.

I do really love the progression you've set up though, thanks for creating this mod :-)

Edit: Is it safe to just remove the MM-PartModding directory to accomplish what I want? That might be easiest. Looking through it's hard to tell if it's all safe to whack. I can try though

Edited May 9, 2015 by GrimerX
learned more

[Lord Aurelius]

Looks good, only other suggestion I can think of for now is to indicate on the OP what part mods are supported by SETIctt at this point.

Edit:

Found one small issue, the HRBs are listed in both basic rocketry and general rocketry.

And I noticed that the bottom node of the HRB doesn't work. Sorry about that, I'll take a look at that this weekend. For now it makes a great first stage booster.

Another thought on progression: could we get the sepratron in general rocketry (instead of advanced) to have something small that can be used for deorbiting?

The cost of the stabilization fins is also very high compared to early engines (this is a problem in stock), either the engines need to be brought up or the fins need to be cheaper. 3x symmetry fins should NOT cost more than a LVT-45.

@Everyone

What do you think of the balance for the HRB? Is there any interest in a smaller HRB based on the Flea, or a larger one?

Edited May 9, 2015 by Lord Aurelius

[Yemo]

I do miss the balance changes especially the RT and electric, and hope once things settle 1.0 will start to feel like an improved 0.90 SETI career. Thanks for the update Yemo!

Yes, I miss many things, especially when I looked at all the containers from TAC Life Support and when trying to find stuff in the categories...

I just wanted to give feedback on this. I'd prefer if you'd keep the balancing separate from the CTT mod, even if it means creating a 'mini' balance mod. Basically because it messes with my rocket designs - they become non-usable (or at least require tweakage) outside of the mod. I want the mod for the way it handles progression, not really for other changes.

I do really love the progression you've set up though, thanks for creating this mod :-)

Edit: Is it safe to just remove the MM-PartModding directory to accomplish what I want? That might be easiest. Looking through it's hard to tell if it's all safe to whack. I can try though

You should be able to remove the MM-PartModding without problems, those configs should contain all the part rebalancing.

I want to keep the rebalancing as little as possible, though many parts in stock are scaled for a manned start which does not quite work with a probe start.

Another small balancing mod would be too much in terms of handling for me, sorry.

Looks good, only other suggestion I can think of for now is to indicate on the OP what part mods are supported by SETIctt at this point.

Edit:

Found one small issue, the HRBs are listed in both basic rocketry and general rocketry.

And I noticed that the bottom node of the HRB doesn't work. Sorry about that, I'll take a look at that this weekend. For now it makes a great first stage booster.

Another thought on progression: could we get the sepratron in general rocketry (instead of advanced) to have something small that can be used for deorbiting?

The cost of the stabilization fins is also very high compared to early engines (this is a problem in stock), either the engines need to be brought up or the fins need to be cheaper. 3x symmetry fins should NOT cost more than a LVT-45.

@Everyone

What do you think of the balance for the HRB? Is there any interest in a smaller HRB based on the Flea, or a larger one?

Thank you, will correct the tech tree stuff. Really liking the HRB!

Edited May 9, 2015 by Yemo

[kcs123]

As new FAR is released I noticed that something is missing on early tree nodes. It is engine with controlable thrust.

Reason for that is that boosters are way overpowered for early lightweight probes. You can't control velocity in any way, no parachute on start, so it means early probe craft is doomed to be destroyed on first flight, but that is OK.

I build very cheap rocket with probe, two thermometar, two barometar attached on probe. Measured data before launching, transmited and same in flight.

Probe was exploded due to termo/aerodinamic failures as expected, but data was transmited and some sucess is still gained from this.

So, maybe it will be good to add most simple engine with contolable thrust early on, like LV-T30 or LV-909, that will not alow you to reach orbit, but still be more usefull for early flights. Just a suggestion, probably more stuff will be revealed when I got more time to actualy play this game. As you add other mods in tree, some of weaker engines could be placed in second tier nodes, but that highly depends what kind of mod will be suported later on.

Otherwise it is refreshing change overall, compared to vanilla tech tree.

EDIT:

Just realized, it should be "SETIctt", not SSTI, silly me.

Edited February 1, 2016 by kcs123

[PeterPan]

@kcs123 did you try to reduce thrust output in the VAB? This is working quite good (adjusting TWR to 1.4-1.7)

[kcs123]

@kcs123 did you try to reduce thrust output in the VAB? This is working quite good (adjusting TWR to 1.4-1.7)

Never thought about that, good suggeston. Plenty of small customization available all times and easily overlooked.

Thanks.

[Martinoss]

I just wanted to express my gratitude to the developers for this mod. I wanted a new challenge to try out KSP 1.0, just finished the first 3 contracts, and I am hooked! You did an awesome job and keep up to good work!

I have one suggestion, the mod sane strategies is nog available for ksp 1.0 yet, is it obsolete now? Also background processing is not yet avialable for 1.0. Is this game breaking or not?

[GrimerX]

You should be able to remove the MM-PartModding without problems, those configs should contain all the part rebalancing.

I want to keep the rebalancing as little as possible, though many parts in stock are scaled for a manned start which does not quite work with a probe start.

Another small balancing mod would be too much in terms of handling for me, sorry.

I understand - whacking a directory is no big deal for me. Thanks!

[Lord Aurelius]

Ok, fixed the issue with the bottom attachment node on the HRB. Download is updated.

If you're curious, the only thing I had to change was

node_stack_bottomhybridBooster1 = 0,-2.16683,0,0,-1,0,1 <- note the -1 instead of 1 on the 3rd to last parameter. Lots of small changes from 0.90 to 1.0.

I also figured out why I had HRBs showing up in two places in my tech tree, I had the HRB mod installed alongside SETI and both were adding it. I was tired last night...

Anyways, it's all fixed now and as always I'm really liking the changes so far.

One other quick note: the starting probe core has 200EC, but the first cockpit only has 50EC. Is that intentional or just an oversight?

[Yemo]

As new FAR is released I noticed that something is missing on early tree nodes. It is engine with controlable thrust.

Reason for that is that boosters are way overpowered for early lightweight probes. You can't control velocity in any way, no parachute on start, so it means early probe craft is doomed to be destroyed on first flight, but that is OK.

I build very cheap rocket with probe, two thermometar, two barometar attached on probe. Measured data before launching, transmited and same in flight.

Probe was exploded due to termo/aerodinamic failures as expected, but data was transmited and some sucess is still gained from this.

http://imgur.com/a/ZPiwA

So, maybe it will be good to add most simple engine with contolable thrust early on, like LV-T30 or LV-909, that will not alow you to reach orbit, but still be more usefull for early flights. Just a suggestion, probably more stuff will be revealed when I got more time to actualy play this game. As you add other mods in tree, some of weaker engines could be placed in second tier nodes, but that highly depends what kind of mod will be suported later on.

Otherwise it is refreshing change overall, compared to vanilla tech tree.

EDIT:

Just realized, it should be "SETIctt", not SSTI, silly me.

Hey, as PeterPan said, adjusting thrust in the VAB for the right starting TWR is key (1.3-1.4 should be ok).

Early probes are meant to be destroyed and even later on, most of my probes do not return.

To keep the costs low, you need only one of the fully transmittable experiments, so one thermo- and one barometer, since they can be reused after transmitting. Dont forget that probe cores have the inbuilt telemetry experiment as well. Also the probe core has 200 EC capacity internally, which should reduce your need for batteries in the beginning.

The propulsion progression is intended to be uncontrollable/non-scaleable SRBs, controllable/non-scaleable HRBs and only then controllable/scaleable LFO engines. So each step feels like a progression/achievement.

Your rocket looks good for the first mission (just ditch the double experiments). I cant wait to have the RLA 0.625m SRBs back, for a slim starting rocket.

I just wanted to express my gratitude to the developers for this mod. I wanted a new challenge to try out KSP 1.0, just finished the first 3 contracts, and I am hooked! You did an awesome job and keep up to good work!

I have one suggestion, the mod sane strategies is nog available for ksp 1.0 yet, is it obsolete now? Also background processing is not yet avialable for 1.0. Is this game breaking or not?

You are welcome!

Sane strategies seems to be obsolete now. All the mods listed in the OP are for the SETI-BalanceMod, which is not KSP 1.0.2 compatible at the moment, and probably for quite some time (squad did just too many unmotivated changes, breaking too much stuff without any benefit).

SETIctt at the moment only makes changes for squad parts and the mods listed in the last update. Though I try to eventually support all the mods listed in the OP at least in terms of SETIctt. For now the other mod parts are just placed where they would be with the stock tech tree and/or the CTT.

Ok, fixed the issue with the bottom attachment node on the HRB. Download is updated.

If you're curious, the only thing I had to change was

node_stack_bottomhybridBooster1 = 0,-2.16683,0,0,-1,0,1 <- note the -1 instead of 1 on the 3rd to last parameter. Lots of small changes from 0.90 to 1.0.

I also figured out why I had HRBs showing up in two places in my tech tree, I had the HRB mod installed alongside SETI and both were adding it. I was tired last night...

Anyways, it's all fixed now and as always I'm really liking the changes so far.

One other quick note: the starting probe core has 200EC, but the first cockpit only has 50EC. Is that intentional or just an oversight?

Thank you very much!

I tried a small MM trick to deal with the problem if people have the HRBs installed in addition to SETIctt (the MM patch is in the HRB config within SETIctt). Unfortunately I forgot the brackets {} after the !PART MM patch.

Will be corrected in the next version.

I wanted to give the non probe command pods a unified EC, regardless of the installed life support mod (TAC adds EC on its own). I just couldnt get the TAC/EC patch out in time with this update. Will do so with the next one!

Edited May 9, 2015 by Yemo

[TothAval]

I would like to use this mod in combination with remote tech, but as i start my career and try to launch a probe, i can't do anything. I tried with 4 commutron-16 and batteries attached, but it can't receive any command,

is this a problem with your mod due to some value missing in the first probe core or is this a remote tech issue?

[Yemo]

I would like to use this mod in combination with remote tech, but as i start my career and try to launch a probe, i can't do anything. I tried with 4 commutron-16 and batteries attached, but it can't receive any command,

is this a problem with your mod due to some value missing in the first probe core or is this a remote tech issue?

Every probe core should have an inbuilt 160km omni antenna right from the start. Are you sure you have the SETIctt version 0.8.2 installed?

If you are sure, can you provide a screenshot of your gamedata folder?

Also, please check whether the top module when you hover over the HECS probe core is a 160km antenna.

[TothAval]

i found the reason, had a mod installed which created different launch sites, therefor the destination to ksc was to high, deinstalled the other mod, now it works

Every probe core should have an inbuilt 160km omni antenna right from the start. Are you sure you have the SETIctt version 0.8.2 installed?

If you are sure, can you provide a screenshot of your gamedata folder?

Also, please check whether the top module when you hover over the HECS probe core is a 160km antenna.

[Yemo]

i found the reason, had a mod installed which created different launch sites, therefor the destination to ksc was to high, deinstalled the other mod, now it works

Glad to hear that!

I just updated the first paragraph of the OP to avoid some confusion with the different downloads.

Will reorder the rest of it as well at another time.

[Martinoss]

Hi,

I want to use missions from the Mission Controller 2 mod. Somehow they don't show up when using SETI. Is there a setting that let's you play the SETI mod including other contracts? Or does it make changes to the other contracts? I took a look at the datastorage of Mission Controller 2 in my persistent file, and some mission progress was set to true, is this done by the SETI mod?

Also my next mission for the SETI contract mod does not show up. I completed the Orbit mission, and in my persistant file setiOrbit is set to 10. Which is a requirement for the next mission OrbitRecovery. But there is another requirement in the SETI-Contracts-Unmanned file, which states:

REQUIREMENT

{

name = Orbit

type = Orbit

targetBody = Kerbin

}

I am not sure what this means exactly, but maybe this is the reason the OrbitRecovery contract does not show up? But then what is the problem? I have a satellite orbiting Kerbin, although it does not have power, is that the problem?

Edit: I hypereditted a satellite with power and connection, and still not next contract....

second Edit: I think i found the problem, when looking in my archived contracts, the contracts are finished but the sub-objectives stay incomplete. See below in a screenshot where the destination and situation remain incomplete, although i was able to finish the mission. Also my persistent save is saying 'state = incomplete'. I am not sure what caused this bug, but it happens with all my SETI-contracts. And it happens only with SETI-contracts. The strange thing is that my last contract actually depends on the earlier starting-contracts and still showed up. Not sure what to do or what could cause this?

Edited May 11, 2015 by Martinoss

[Yemo]

Hi,

I want to use missions from the Mission Controller 2 mod. Somehow they don't show up when using SETI. Is there a setting that let's you play the SETI mod including other contracts? Or does it make changes to the other contracts? I took a look at the datastorage of Mission Controller 2 in my persistent file, and some mission progress was set to true, is this done by the SETI mod?

SETI disables the stock progression contracts (under SETI-Contracts-General) using ContractConfigurator, there are no other changes.

Also SETI uses its own variables to store the progression, so it is totally independent of any other progression mod.

MissionController2 does not use ContractConfigurator, I have no idea about the interaction between those 2.

Also my next mission for the SETI contract mod does not show up. I completed the Orbit mission, and in my persistant file setiOrbit is set to 10. Which is a requirement for the next mission OrbitRecovery. But there is another requirement in the SETI-Contracts-Unmanned file, which states:

REQUIREMENT

{

name = Orbit

type = Orbit

targetBody = Kerbin

}

I am not sure what this means exactly, but maybe this is the reason the OrbitRecovery contract does not show up? But then what is the problem? I have a satellite orbiting Kerbin, although it does not have power, is that the problem?

Edit: I hypereditted a satellite with power and connection, and still not next contract....

second Edit: I think i found the problem, when looking in my archived contracts, the contracts are finished but the sub-objectives stay incomplete. See below in a screenshot where the destination and situation remain incomplete, although i was able to finish the mission. Also my persistent save is saying 'state = incomplete'. I am not sure what caused this bug, but it happens with all my SETI-contracts. And it happens only with SETI-contracts. The strange thing is that my last contract actually depends on the earlier starting-contracts and still showed up. Not sure what to do or what could cause this?

http://i61.tinypic.com/2itfvgy.png

I m pretty sure the contract does not show up, because all your contract "offer slots" are used up (I think slots are limited based on the number of stars and your current prestige).

Decline some of the offered contracts and it should show up eventually.

This is a SQUAD restriction, and I m not aware of a method to circumvent it without causing other issues.

The archive contracts not having the stuff completed is imho a contract configurator thing and does not have any impact on the progression, only the progression variables (setiOrbit = 10) count for SETI.

The additional requirement you stated above should be beneath an ANY node, thus not really relevant.

[Errol]

RETRACTED: user error at fault.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Errol

[Martinoss]

SETI disables the stock progression contracts (under SETI-Contracts-General) using ContractConfigurator, there are no other changes.

Also SETI uses its own variables to store the progression, so it is totally independent of any other progression mod.

MissionController2 does not use ContractConfigurator, I have no idea about the interaction between those 2.

I m pretty sure the contract does not show up, because all your contract "offer slots" are used up (I think slots are limited based on the number of stars and your current prestige).

Decline some of the offered contracts and it should show up eventually.

This is a SQUAD restriction, and I m not aware of a method to circumvent it without causing other issues.

The archive contracts not having the stuff completed is imho a contract configurator thing and does not have any impact on the progression, only the progression variables (setiOrbit = 10) count for SETI.

The additional requirement you stated above should be beneath an ANY node, thus not really relevant.

Hi thanks for your respond. I figured out what the problem was of the contract not showing up. My reputation is not high enough yet to receive offers for Exceptional contracts. So until a certain reputation, contracts with prestige = exceptional are not showing up. And the contract or Orbit & Recovery is set to exceptional by default, and can not be altered by the KSP contract system.

What would be in line with the idea of the SETI contract mod? Doing other contracts until your reputation is high enough? I am not sure how long that would take, or what level of reputation would trigger exceptional contracts.

[Yemo]

Hi thanks for your respond. I figured out what the problem was of the contract not showing up. My reputation is not high enough yet to receive offers for Exceptional contracts. So until a certain reputation, contracts with prestige = exceptional are not showing up. And the contract or Orbit & Recovery is set to exceptional by default, and can not be altered by the KSP contract system.

What would be in line with the idea of the SETI contract mod? Doing other contracts until your reputation is high enough? I am not sure how long that would take, or what level of reputation would trigger exceptional contracts.

Hm, I will set the prestige to Significant for the next version, thank you.

I really dislike that prestige/slot system for progression contracts. It is really annyoing and the the only reason why I set it to exceptional in the first place was, to free up "Significant" slots...

Those artificial restrictions without merit are just annyoing, especially when modders can not circumvent them.

I m not sure about the actual threshold for exceptional, but I would just use the debug menu to provide more prestige to get around this "annoyance by design". Or you could edit the contracts prestige to significant and then decline 2start contracts. Then it should show up, as far as I understand it.

[Martinoss]

Hm, I will set the prestige to Significant for the next version, thank you.

I really dislike that prestige/slot system for progression contracts. It is really annyoing and the the only reason why I set it to exceptional in the first place was, to free up "Significant" slots...

Those artificial restrictions without merit are just annyoing, especially when modders can not circumvent them.

I m not sure about the actual threshold for exceptional, but I would just use the debug menu to provide more prestige to get around this "annoyance by design". Or you could edit the contracts prestige to significant and then decline 2start contracts. Then it should show up, as far as I understand it.

Just changed the prestige to significant and it showed up immediately, so this indeed works!

[Yemo]

Just changed the prestige to significant and it showed up immediately, so this indeed works!

Great!

I really like the small rover made possible by the suggestions from kcs123: