[1.3.x] SETI, Unmanned before Manned [Patreon]

[Yemo]

2 minutes ago, _Zee said:

Hello Yemo, thanks for all the work you put into your mods!

I running into an issue with Unmanned Before Manned and Remotetech. Whenever a new career is started, the very first probe core you're given does not have the 3km Always-On Omni antenna. You can slap one of the actual antenna parts onto the ship and those will work, but the probe core itself does not have a connection to the KSC when sitting on the launch pad. By contrast, starting a new Sandbox mode game DOES give the same probe core the 3km omni antenna. 

I'm not sure where the problem is or how to fix it. Appreciate any help you can provide!

That 3km omni is a technology perk from RemoteTech. It is totally independent from UnmannedBeforeManned. I m not sure anymore what tech node activates it (thats why it is working in sandbox and not in career), because I usually play with SETIrebalance, which gives probe cores an integrated 160km omni antenna from the start.

[_Zee]

1 minute ago, Yemo said:

That 3km omni is a technology perk from RemoteTech. It is totally independent from UnmannedBeforeManned. I m not sure anymore what tech node activates it (thats why it is working in sandbox and not in career), because I usually play with SETIrebalance, which gives probe cores an integrated 160km omni antenna from the start.

Yes, and before you posted update 1.0.8.1, the tech perk was listed in the Start tech node. RemoteTech intends for that perk to be something you have from the start, so that probes can talk with the KSC from the launchpad and other local craft without real antennas. This becomes even more important with the changes your mod makes.

[JeffreyCor]

I like the SETI Greenhouses with USI-LS as I find them much better suited for space stations than the one that is included with it.

[Yemo]

9 minutes ago, _Zee said:

Yes, and before you posted update 1.0.8.1, the tech perk was listed in the Start tech node. RemoteTech intends for that perk to be something you have from the start, so that probes can talk with the KSC from the launchpad and other local craft without real antennas. This becomes even more important with the changes your mod makes.

I looked it up in the remote tech folder and it says that the 3km omni is intended to be unlocked at the node "unmannedTech".

Hm, did you by any chance install the mod SETI-ProbeControlEnabler?

[_Zee]

10 minutes ago, Yemo said:

I looked it up in the remote tech folder and it says that the 3km omni is intended to be unlocked at the node "unmannedTech".

Hm, did you by any chance install the mod SETI-ProbeControlEnabler?

I stand corrected, you are right, Remote Tech's default config is that the 3km omni is unlocked further down the tree on unmannedtech. However, your mod places this tech in the start node, but doesn't actually put the effect into affect, which means it can never be utilized during a career. The fix is to either put the tech back in the unmannedtech node, or make sure the perk is actually applied to all the probe cores at game start. Either way is fine I suppose, given what both your mod and RT are doing.

I have not installed ProbeControlEnabler btw.

Edited April 24, 2016 by _Zee

[Yemo]

11 minutes ago, _Zee said:

I stand corrected, you are right, Remote Tech's default config is that the 3km omni is unlocked further down the tree on unmannedtech. However, your mod places this tech in the start node, but doesn't actually put the effect into affect, which means it can never be utilized during a career. The fix is to either put the tech back in the unmannedtech node, or make sure the perk is actually applied to all the probe cores at game start. Either way is fine I suppose, given what both your mod and RT is doing.

I have not installed ProbeControlEnabler btw.

Hm, that is strange, I find no reference to that tech within UnmannedBeforeManned configs and I do not recall messing with it for UbM. So if you only installed UbM, it should still be like it is in RemoteTech originally.

[_Zee]

1 hour ago, Yemo said:

Hm, that is strange, I find no reference to that tech within UnmannedBeforeManned configs and I do not recall messing with it for UbM. So if you only installed UbM, it should still be like it is in RemoteTech originally.

Ya I have no idea why its doing that, because other techs added in that you just left to default work just fine, like Dmagic for example.

Anyway, I figured out how to correct it. I added this line to the UnmannedBeforeManned-TechTree.cfg

@PART[RTPassiveAntennaTech]:NEEDS[RemoteTech,!SETIctt,!ETT,!OpenTree,!RP-0]:FOR[UnmannedBeforeManned]
{
	@TechRequired = unmannedTech
}

I'm not entirely certain I used all the right tags, but it's correctly placing the perk into the correct node and researching it gives the correct intended results.

[Maegil]

Yemo,

Is there a technical reason for Unmanned Before Manned to have a dependency to KSP AVC on CKAN? Since CKAN already keeps stuff up-to-date and AVC sometimes glitches I would rather not use the latter, but it can't be removed without losing your great technohistoriological rebalancing mod.

Any chance to remove the dependency?

[Yemo]

On 24.4.2016 at 1:56 AM, _Zee said:

Ya I have no idea why its doing that, because other techs added in that you just left to default work just fine, like Dmagic for example.

Anyway, I figured out how to correct it. I added this line to the UnmannedBeforeManned-TechTree.cfg

@PART[RTPassiveAntennaTech]:NEEDS[RemoteTech,!SETIctt,!ETT,!OpenTree,!RP-0]:FOR[UnmannedBeforeManned]
{
	@TechRequired = unmannedTech
}

I'm not entirely certain I used all the right tags, but it's correctly placing the perk into the correct node and researching it gives the correct intended results.

Thank you!

I ll add it in the next recompile for KSP 1.1.1 (also I will wait for that to be released before updating the other mods).

PS: I thought the pre-release was intended to avoid the mini update version dance from 1.0.x. Really annoying...

8 hours ago, Maegil said:

Yemo,

Is there a technical reason for Unmanned Before Manned to have a dependency to KSP AVC on CKAN? Since CKAN already keeps stuff up-to-date and AVC sometimes glitches I would rather not use the latter, but it can't be removed without losing your great technohistoriological rebalancing mod.

Any chance to remove the dependency?

No technical dependency. But due to the meta-mod pack character of UbM, the "unlimited RAM" allowing massive mod collections, previous and current issues with CKAN, as well as manually installed mods, and the KSP version dance (which I thought we left behind after the 1.0.x experience), it really helps in decreasing support issues.

And decreasing support issues increases time for mod development/maintenance. If you are determined to not have it, I guess you can try to "cheat the system" by replacing the actual ksp avc dll with a dummy file or something like that. Of course that is at your own risk.

Edited April 28, 2016 by Yemo

[blnk2007]

I'd like to contribute Compatibility for B9 Procedural Wings. I put them in stability so they would be close to the modular wing section. 

@PART[B9_Aero_Wing_Procedural_TypeA|B9_Aero_Wing_Procedural_TypeB|B9_Aero_Wing_Procedural_TypeC]:NEEDS[B9_Aerospace_ProceduralWings,UnmannedBeforeManned,!SETIctt,!ETT,!OpenTree,!RP-0]
{
	@TechRequired = stability
}

This will keep away the clutter. 

Note: It works with the B9 Wings Modified. I haven't tested it with B9 Wings official or B9 Wings Fork, although I assume it will work.

[Yemo]

I really hope that KSP 1.1.1 fixed everything that was buggy in KSP 1.1.

edit: I guess not:

https://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/4gzxyg/it_seems_111_gave_us_a_new_kraken_the_moonwalk/

 

 

Unmanned before Manned v1.0.8.2 (for KSP 1.1.1)

RemoteTech dummy part fix, thank you very much @_Zee

B9Procedural compatibility, thank you very much @blnk2007

 

SETI RemoteTech Config v1.0.8.1 (for KSP 1.1.1)

Simple recompile for KSP 1.1.1

 

SETI ProbeControlEnabler v1.0.8.1 (for KSP 1.1.1)

Simple recompile for KSP 1.1.1

Edited April 29, 2016 by Yemo

[kcs123]

I just read a few comments in announcment aricle for 1.1.1. relese. This post from ZodiusInfuser:

Quote

This change worries me: 

* Added auto-struts to every wheel, similar to fairing payload struts. They attach to the most massive part on the vessel. This prevents wheel suspensions from becoming unstable when the wheel is attached to a weaker part. (Attaching legs to pylons no longer causes vessels to bounce and/or break dance.)

Any way to turn it off? This sounds like it will prevent deployable rovers that use Infernal Robotics from being a thing again, since the robotics parts will be fighting this invisible strut whenever you try to move them.

 

Looks like SQUAD found very hacky solution to that bug. That could create even more kraken forces than it will solve.
Need to test everything in game, though, before tell more criticism about it.

[nobodyhasthis2]

On 4/28/2016 at 9:01 AM, Yemo said:

PS: I thought the pre-release was intended to avoid the mini update version dance from 1.0.x. Really annoying...

Here we go again 

Edit; MM ending .23 is toast by the looks of it.

Edited April 30, 2016 by nobodyhasthis2

[Yemo]

19 hours ago, kcs123 said:

I just read a few comments in announcment aricle for 1.1.1. relese. This post from ZodiusInfuser:

 

Looks like SQUAD found very hacky solution to that bug. That could create even more kraken forces than it will solve.
Need to test everything in game, though, before tell more criticism about it.

 

1 hour ago, nobodyhasthis2 said:

Here we go again 

Edit; MM ending .23 is toast by the looks of it.

Yeah, 1.0.x all over again...

 

Unmanned before Manned v1.0.8.3 (for KSP 1.1.2)

SETI RemoteTech Config v1.0.8.2 (for KSP 1.1.2)

SETI ProbeControlEnabler v1.0.8.2 (for KSP 1.1.2)

And the InitialContracts were recompiled as well, for the heck of it: https://github.com/Y3mo/InitialContracts/releases

 

I want to thank all the patrons and supporters, it really helps keeping motivated in those times.

[theonegalen]

Thanks for everything, @Yemo! I tried doing an unmodded career when 1.1 dropped, and couldn't stand it - I have to have at least UnmannedBeforeManned, and the InitialContracts update is just icing on the cake, thank you!

[doudou]

Hello !

Update CKAN ? 

[kjub]

@doudou

I support this!

Edited May 2, 2016 by kjub

[doudou]

Sorry but I can not find it on CKAN . What does he like to say to find it?

[doudou]

C is good, your mod appears in ckan ! excuse me for the disruption !

[SpacedInvader]

Has anyone tried the SETI Rebalance with 1.1.x yet? When I stopped playing a year ago due to frustrations for lack of x64 and/or decent memory management, SETI was one of my required mods, not in small part due to the EC rebalance (eating a 200 unit battery to transmit 3 basic experiments is kinda dumb). I've noticed this hasn't been updated yet, so I'm wondering if it will be / if it works with the new version thanks to it being only mm configs?

Thanks

EDIT: Also the SETI-CTT... Unmanned before manned is nice, but I've always liked the comprehensiveness of the SETI-CTT,

EDIT/Apology: Nevermind, I found my answer on the last page... I guess I need to get back into the habit of reading a few pages of a thread before opening my dumb mouth again.

Edited May 4, 2016 by SpacedInvader

[nobodyhasthis2]

@Yemo Is the tech tree rebuild still being planned and is there a diagram of it ?

I am building up a list of personal patches for a list of non supported mods. I am not sure if the mapping should be planned against the current tree on the new proposal. I know it might be very early to ask this. Especially with the version dance and RT reverse engineering stuff coming up at some undetermined point in the future..  

[kingoftheinternet]

Unmanned Before Manned wasn't successfully changing the tech tree around for me without messing with its config. For example, one of the lines I had to change was:

@PART[probeCoreOcto|sensorBarometer|batteryBankMini|sensorThermometer|longAntenna|solidBooster|standardNoseCone|adapterSmallMiniTall]:NEEDS[!SETIctt,!ETT,!OpenTree,!RP-0]:FOR[UnmannedBeforeManned]

by removing the :NEEDS clause. I don't think I have any of those mods that it's checking for, though; I'm not sure what RP-0 or ETT are but there's nothing I can find that seems to correspond to those, and I definitely don't have SETIctt or OpenTree.

Any ideas?

Edit: Never mind, I *did* have the SETIctt folder there, it's just been completely removed of any files (by CKAN, I guess, since now it's out of date? I'm just starting with 1.1). Removing the folder itself causes a segfault on game load though, rofl. Probably nothing to do with you.

Edited May 8, 2016 by kingoftheinternet

[SpacedInvader]

Moving to thread of mod conflict.

Edited May 8, 2016 by SpacedInvader

[kjub]

Could you please tell us if SETI Rebalance Mod will appear on CKAN again? I'd appreciate it very much.  If so then will it be closer to 2 weeks since now or rather 2 months from now?

I've stopped playing KSP some time ago. No when 64 bit version popped, I'd be happy to return but SETI is must be for me in its hugest setup.  But as I can see on spacedock, SETI is still in 1.0.5 built.

Is it why it's not on CKAN yet?

Best regards,

kjub.

[Yemo]

On 7.5.2016 at 10:01 PM, nobodyhasthis2 said:

@Yemo Is the tech tree rebuild still being planned and is there a diagram of it ?

I am building up a list of personal patches for a list of non supported mods. I am not sure if the mapping should be planned against the current tree on the new proposal. I know it might be very early to ask this. Especially with the version dance and RT reverse engineering stuff coming up at some undetermined point in the future..  

With the squad strategic decision regarding the update/versions and the current state of the game (looking at bug reports here and on reddit as well as the information on reddit regarding the cause of this version dance), I can not say when I can work on the SETI tech tree again.

It is still planned, but I will wait for a stable (non-marketing) KSP release until I put time into it.

There was a dev version some time ago, but many changes have come up since then and there will most likely be more changes. What I can say is, that nearly all additions are planned for the early game (90 science and below) and the mid to late game "tech lines" will just be reordered to make more sense. So except for the early game, current SETIctt part positions within nodes are not planned to be affected too much.

Sorry if I could not give a more detailed answer. I m just not sure myself, how it will turn out.

On 8.5.2016 at 3:51 AM, kingoftheinternet said:

Unmanned Before Manned wasn't successfully changing the tech tree around for me without messing with its config. For example, one of the lines I had to change was:

@PART[probeCoreOcto|sensorBarometer|batteryBankMini|sensorThermometer|longAntenna|solidBooster|standardNoseCone|adapterSmallMiniTall]:NEEDS[!SETIctt,!ETT,!OpenTree,!RP-0]:FOR[UnmannedBeforeManned]

by removing the :NEEDS clause. I don't think I have any of those mods that it's checking for, though; I'm not sure what RP-0 or ETT are but there's nothing I can find that seems to correspond to those, and I definitely don't have SETIctt or OpenTree.

Any ideas?

Edit: Never mind, I *did* have the SETIctt folder there, it's just been completely removed of any files (by CKAN, I guess, since now it's out of date? I'm just starting with 1.1). Removing the folder itself causes a segfault on game load though, rofl. Probably nothing to do with you.

Unfortunately the CKAN uninstall routine does not necessarily delete the folders, thus modulemanager still detects the mod to be installed. This is a complicated issue due to mods being able to use the same folder.

2 hours ago, kjub said:

Could you please tell us if SETI Rebalance Mod will appear on CKAN again? I'd appreciate it very much.  If so then will it be closer to 2 weeks since now or rather 2 months from now?

I've stopped playing KSP some time ago. No when 64 bit version popped, I'd be happy to return but SETI is must be for me in its hugest setup.  But as I can see on spacedock, SETI is still in 1.0.5 built.

Is it why it's not on CKAN yet?

Best regards,

kjub.

SETIrebalance update was planned to be done about a week ago. But due to the KSP version dance, I decided to wait for a stable KSP release. Constantly recompilling mods due to squad marketing reasons is not something I want to do.

I also suggested a manual override function within CKAN to relieve that issue, since all the mods within this thread (ksp 1.0.5 versions) still work with ksp 1.1, 1.1.1 and 1.1.2:

But it seems as if this is not going to happen unless players ask for it.

So everyone interested in installing mods via ckan, which do not join the ksp version dance but otherwise work just fine, please ask for that "manual override of compatibility" functionality in the CKAN thread:

But please remind yourself that ckan is a community provided mod manager and the modders over there are also doing that in their own time. Thus a demand and debating a feature suggestion makes a difference.

 

I ll continue working on SETI once there is a somewhat "stable" KSP version available, in the sense that I do not have to expect a recompile of 8 mods every 2 weeks or so just for the fun of it. Until then or until CKAN allows manual override, there is always the option of a manual install, all mods within this thread work with KSP 1.1.2 as far as I can tell.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Yemo