Squadcast Summary (2015-02-07) - The 'Not Very Interesting' Edition

[BudgetHedgehog]

Hullo everyone, and here's the summary for Squadcast 2015-02-07.

Sorry for speeling mistakes, I'm a terrible transcriber. I try and clarify what is an actual quote from Max (if it's wrapped in "quotation marks", it's the best transcript of an official Squad member you'll find on the web), and what is a summary from myself as I'm aware I switch between the two with 0 notice. When I say 'Squad', I mean 'the relevant people who are currently developing the game'.

As always, this is just a transcript of an off the cuff vlog of a non-native english speaker - some details may change or be entirely incorrect. So, here it is, I guess...

Squadcast Summary for 2015-02-07 - Watch it here!

More faffing around the Joolian system that takes up a lot of Squadcast, blah blah blah, nobody cares...

Been a busy week at Squad HQ! But then, when is it ever not... Aerodynamic overhaul is huge feature, required a lot of designing and testing, but everything's been brilliant so far. Mach effects are in (not the visual kind, the stuff that affects your CoL in flight at high speeds), it's been a whole lot of work. S'good stuff. Flaps and spoilers won't be added, but if you download a mod that includes them, they will function as such. Having the option to change aerodynamics should be doable - either with an in-game button or installing a mod like FAR, the aero system should remain open to modding/changing, which is good news for FAR users.

Resource system is going well, RoverDude is just crazy talented. Is also now talking with PorkJet to make sure the textures for everything look simply spiffing (not just resource parts, but the landing gear and stuff). RoverDude has been kicking every butt when it comes to having the resource overlay accessible to people with colour blindness etc, along with Arsonide etc (RoverDude in the chat: "I made some tweaks so you can toggle between alternate colors.. and other surprises ;)").

Higher timewarp speeds - currently playing fast and loose, any higher and the game starts getting unstable beyond them so no plans to have higher timewarp yet. But if higher timewarps can be done and made stable, it's possible.

Back when 64bit became usable, that hack, Squad got excited about it and that's how it came to exist, but as mentioned by Ted recently, a Win64 version of KSP will not be in 1.0 because it's just gotten more unstable and isn't something worthy of release any more.

As mentioned before, this update will take a while. Definitely not before the end of February so don't start the HypeTrain yet.

The loading screens, the blank/black ones with the little orbits in the lower corner will have little tips like in the very early versions. Such tips may include 'you can't reach orbit by going straight up', that kind of thing.

Multiplayer is something that KSP will have for sure, but it'll take a while. After 1.0. But it is coming!

It would be nice to have the kerbals stats mean something apart from the facial expressions, but Squad haven't decided on what exactly. Random failures is something Squad are entirely against so don't expect low stupidity kerbals to jettison the command pod halfway through a burn. Also, female kerbals will still be called * Kerman. And be just kerbals.

Having a set amount of time pass between rocket design and actual construction (like KCT) is a nice idea, but it's not something that Squad is terribly interested in because they think that 'any time an obstacle is purely time based, a new player will just timewarp until it's done'

Life support is something that might be added, but they have to balance it against people accidentally timewarping too fast and killing everyone somewhere. Basically, life support is a nice idea, but requires more thought and time.

Overarching contracts (like 'expand [station Y] around Minmus by adding [X]') is "actually a suggestion [Kaspervld] put on the dev's list, but that doesn't mean it'll happen at all".

32bit will be optimised, Squad has a few ideas regarding this so bear with them. Also, development will certainly continue beyond 1.0, don't worry.

This week was mainly physics and numbers so no juicy or interesting screenshot teasers this week (not even Excel shots of engines stats), but next week, apparently we're in for a real doozy. Remember to tune in next week then, I guess! Available as usual here at the times laid out here. See you next week!

Edited February 7, 2015 by ObsessedWithKSP
minor grammar

[KerBlam]

32bit will be optimised, Squad has a few ideas regarding this so bear with them. Also, development will certainly continue beyond 1.0, don't worry.

Any mention of 64bit for Linux users? Does the x64 Windows Nerf mean that Linux users suffer as well.. I'd like to see some optimisation done there too...

Multiplayer is something that KSP will have for sure, but it'll take a while. After 1.0. But it is coming!

That's awesome news... I probably won't ever use it (other people wreck my immersion), but it's nice that it's there.

THe rest seems all good, thanks for the update OWKSP.

[pxi]

Thanks as always for the summary!

[BudgetHedgehog]

Any mention of 64bit for Linux users? Does the x64 Windows Nerf mean that Linux users suffer as well.. I'd like to see some optimisation done there too...

Nope, Linux64 is unaffected, you guys will still have a stable and playable 64bit version, just like you currently have (I'm mad jelly). Ted's article explains more.

[katateochi]

Thanks for the Summary (again)!

I want to hope that the optimizations might fix the slight stutter issue some of us have, but as (it seems) that is a unity garbage collector issue, unless they said anything about upgrading to unity 4.2 or higher, I don't think that will get solved. But maybe other optimizations will make it less noticeable.

[regex]

Mach effects are in (not the visual kind, the stuff that affects your CoL in flight at high speeds)

Did not expect that, it may end up being more sophisticated than I anticipated.

Flaps and spoilers won't be added, but if you download a mod that includes them, they will function as such.

Typical... Why not add a tweakable to control surfaces?

Having the option to change aerodynamics should be doable

The way the KSP devs do things, this doesn't sound promising at all. Backing up my 0.90 base in case of (accidental or not) FAR lockout...

[BudgetHedgehog]

Typical... Why not add a tweakable to control surfaces?

Yeah, seems weird to me that they'd include the functionality of, but no stock way to have, spoilers and flaps. Download a mod to give me something the game already provides? Uhh.... Still, that's what Max said, might change, might be wrong, who knows. But yeah, back up your 0.90s, kids

[regex]

Yeah, seems weird to me that they'd include the functionality of, but no stock way to have, spoilers and flaps.

I imagine it's a product of the drag model allowing for such surfaces rather than "including functionality". My point was really "why not polish the damn game up a bit?"

[razark]

Having a set amount of time pass between rocket design and actual construction (like KCT) is a nice idea, but it's not something that Squad is terribly interested in because they think that 'any time an obstacle is purely time based, a new player will just timewarp until it's done'

I've never gotten this reasoning. A player can timewarp through it, but the time will still have passed. If a contract needs to be completed in a certain amount of time, and it takes time to construct the rocket, the player may need to make a tradeoff between how big a ship they choose to build and risking not completing the contract in time. This tradeoff will occur whether or not the player chooses to timewarp to the completion or not.

It's like saying that the Mun should be moved to a 100km orbit around Kerbin, because otherwise a player will just timewarp until they reach their intercept point.

[klgraham1013]

Flaps and spoilers won't be added

All I can say is...why?

#BackUpYour90s

[BudgetHedgehog]

I imagine it's a product of the drag model allowing for such surfaces rather than "including functionality". My point was really "why not polish the damn game up a bit?"

Well yeah - they update the aero to allow flaps and spoilers to exist, but there'll be no stock way to have them. Otherwise known as 'I agree with you - polish the game, ya muppets'.

A player can timewarp through it, but the time will still have passed

You make a good point, I hadn't thought of it that way. When you add in stuff like life support and comms relays (pls come to stock..), taking time to build something becomes a pretty huge deal. Even right now, with deadlines in the 10s of years to launch a satellite to Minmus orbit and actually building and completing the contract takes what.. 10 in game days? One or both of those numbers are a little wrong...

[Kerbin Dallas Multipass]

Max is not very talented in inclination matters

[MKI]

Most important bit of into to me is about life support.

I truly believe life support needs to be added. Its what holds us down from going to Mars tomorrow. We had the tech back in the 70s, and have better tech now, but keeping someone alive for 6 months out in the middle of space is a tough and demanding task. That is something Space travel is defined by.

Something along the lines of Kerbal Alarm clock needs to be added to handle all the time issues with the game. Better burn control, and life support control. Can't go kill everyone if an alarm stops time telling warning you.

But I'm glad as long as its not thrown off the table

[StrandedonEarth]

I've never gotten this reasoning. A player can timewarp through it, but the time will still have passed. If a contract needs to be completed in a certain amount of time, and it takes time to construct the rocket, the player may need to make a tradeoff between how big a ship they choose to build and risking not completing the contract in time. This tradeoff will occur whether or not the player chooses to timewarp to the completion or not.

Also, it's entirely possible to warp past your transfer window. And if life support ever becomes a thing....

[Robotengineer]

I like how the devs are working with modders, but why not just integrate the mods? Why go to all that trouble to make something from scratch when there is a perfectly good thing already? I'm speaking about FAR of course. I am disappointed about spoilers, I guess that means no airbrakes?

TACLS stops timewarp when resources get low, and has an option to temporarily disable.

Integrate!

KAC has timewarp to, and other extremely useful features.

Integrate!

KER is essential if you want to build efficiently and well.

Integrate!

Module Manager is the most ubiquitous mod ever, as many mods depend on it, it could be easily integrated.

Integrate!

ATM is nigh on essential just to run stock with high quality graphics settings, and it speeds up loading times.

Integrate!

While I could do a whole speech on integration, I believe someone has done that before. All of these are mods I would not play KSP without except for TACLS, I am not a perfect representation of the average player, however I believe my views represent a sizable chunk of the Community.

Edited February 7, 2015 by Robotengineer
mild fixes.

[FishInferno]

i am really hoping that Life support gets added, but my guess is it wouldn't be as sophisticated as TAC. probably just a single resource like snacks that drains rather than oxygen, water, etc.

[Whirligig Girl]

Alright, i won't start the hypeTrain yet. I know when to start the HypeTrain, Never before experimentals.

[SorryDave]

I am not sure how I feel about life support, I did not enjoy the mods much.

I do not know how much of the Apollo mission weight was life support. Would the challenge just be tacking on more life support like over building with fuel?

It is still radiation and no gravity that keeps us from Mars or at least being strong enough to do anything when we get there. Not life support. I think even loneliness is a bigger concern.

I would imagine it would be a large factor in a multi decade trip to Jupiter or for long term bases. The solution would have to be the generation of life support, not just taking more.

It would be cool mission planning to send supplies with slow efficient vehicles and kerbals in faster vehicles with less travel time. Restocking space stations might be a fun grind as well, maybe I'll even use the lifeboats I always add. Of course space stations might just not be worth it.

[magnemoe]

I've never gotten this reasoning. A player can timewarp through it, but the time will still have passed. If a contract needs to be completed in a certain amount of time, and it takes time to construct the rocket, the player may need to make a tradeoff between how big a ship they choose to build and risking not completing the contract in time. This tradeoff will occur whether or not the player chooses to timewarp to the completion or not.

It's like saying that the Mun should be moved to a 100km orbit around Kerbin, because otherwise a player will just timewarp until they reach their intercept point.

No as the construction time require some other changes too to work well and not be an stupid annoyance. Say you need to launch something like an extra science module to an ship, however you just started building the Jool5 mothership. Can you then pause the build and launch the module then resume the building the big ship?

Can you build subasembly launchers for future use? Can you do modifications to this prebuild parts?

All of this is realistic and add depth to construction time but take time to implement. i use extraplanetary launchpads and is very familiar with build times. IN EP you can only pause or cancel builds but you can do multiple if you have multiple on the connected base.

Most players will probably build stuff long before launch windows and put in waiting orbits anyway.

[basic.syntax]

Career mode games have parts limits... idk how I will fit in all this extra stuff you guys want added like life support, flaps, spoilers, other cool mods. Think of the kittens, think of the children!

More seriously, I think life support, while a neat idea that adds more authenticity... is not central to the core game of rockets, orbits, moon landings, and explosions. I'm happy to let that remain an external mod.

[magnemoe]

i am really hoping that Life support gets added, but my guess is it wouldn't be as sophisticated as TAC. probably just a single resource like snacks that drains rather than oxygen, water, etc.

TAC has the heavy recycles, I think they are too heavy 5.5 ton for an CO2 scrubber who returns 9/10 of the oxygen I guess the rest is co2. 3 ton for an waster cleaner who also return 9/10 of the water.

While this adds lots of balance, you want to use the recycles on bases and mothership and rater store up the waste on landers and taxis, however the modules feels far to heavy.

Also at least in the outer solar system its plenty of water most places so an mission to Jupiter would not run out of water, and you can get oxygen from water.

An mission to Mercury would have a harder time as its only at the poles.

[CalculusWarrior]

No as the construction time require some other changes too to work well and not be an stupid annoyance. Say you need to launch something like an extra science module to an ship, however you just started building the Jool5 mothership. Can you then pause the build and launch the module then resume the building the big ship?

Can you build subasembly launchers for future use? Can you do modifications to this prebuild parts?

KCT actually has found ways around all of those; it's a really remarkable mod. Reordering of build orders is done easily and it allows for concurrent constructions, it reduces the time to build parts which you have used before (not quite what you're talking about, you can't have a 'Delta IV' you order up, but it is a step in the right direction), and you can edit ships after you've built them, which sends the ship back to the VAB for a few days to complete the modification.

[basic.syntax]

While I could do a whole speech on integration, I believe someone has done that before. All of these are mods I would not play KSP without except for TACLS, I am not a perfect representation of the average player, however I believe my views represent a sizable chunk of the Community.

Some mods will be adopted into the core game over time, but others will not, for many reasons, and despite their popularity. HarvesteR has replied to this type of question, in this post.

[sjohnson0684]

Having a set amount of time pass between rocket design and actual construction (like KCT) is a nice idea, but it's not something that Squad is terribly interested in because they think that 'any time an obstacle is purely time based, a new player will just timewarp until it's done'

The stock game does need something like KCT. It is currently too easy to complete much (or even all) of science/career mode in a completely unrealistic short amount of time with the ability to chain launches right after each other; so easy that an experienced player like myself can complete the entire tech tree long before the first launch window for Duna or Eve opens. Time restrictions for launches can also improve the career mode experience by having players carefully choose there contracts and plan accordingly (of course, right now the contract deadlines are just too long). Also, if life support is added, it would add additional challenge to rescue or resupply missions (i.e., no magical ships that the player can craft in zero time to rescue a stranded Kerbal on the Mun).

This irritates me: "a new player will just timewarp until it's done"; well much of the game already relies on time warping, so I don't understand why this would be an issue. I love KSP and I applaud Squad's huge amount of effort in making and improving this wonderful game, but I wish they would drop this new player catering. Should the game have ways to help new players learn how to play? Yes, through guided tutorials. Should the non-tutorial portion of the game be dumbed down to allow new / incompetent players to play the game easier? No. I'm sorry to sound conceited, but people will either have the ability to grasp the concepts required to play this game or not. New players that are capable of understanding these concepts will learn just like the most of us, while the others will not. I hope Squad will shift their focus more on improving the game for people that will play the game for 500+ hours and less for those that may play for a few hours or less and give-up because they will never be able to understand orbital mechanics.

Edited February 7, 2015 by sjohnson0684

[razark]

No as the construction time require some other changes too to work well and not be an stupid annoyance.

I'm not saying it wouldn't require a bit of thought to implement. I'm just saying that the "players will use timewarp" excuse for not doing it is invalid.

It's not just construction, either. This excuse has been brought out in response to science experiments that take time. However, let's say there was a science experiment that gave you 100 science after 30 days in orbit. A player could launch the experiment, timewarp for a month, and collect 100 science. That's fine. The player could also launch the experiment, and spend the 30 days landing on Mun and Minmus. At the end of the month, the player gets 100 science from the experiment, plus whatever science they get in the meantime. This also provides a solution to the "satellites serve no purpose in stock" complaints that pop up from time to time.