Xeldrak

Doing it Apollo style - Redux

101 posts in this topic

Once upon a time, I ran the Doing it Apollo style challenge. Maybe it's time for a reboot.

 

The challenge is to get a Kerbal to the Mun and back. But not just in any way - we are doing it Apollo style!
Your Mun-mission hast to fullfill the following criteria:
- Everything has to be started with a single rocket (no building ships in orbit or refueling in orbit)
- You have to fly a LOR mission (you need a Command Module [CM] and a specialized Munar Module [MM])
- No automated piloting (no mechjeb, do your flying by hand)
- BYOR (Bring your own rocket) - The rocket must be your own design
Just for fullfilling theese criteria you will get thirty points. (+30)

 

Mods are allowed, but will be listed in a seperate leaderboard.
Please be so kind and document everything that is point-relevant with screenshots.
(F1 for KSP-made-screenshots, F12 for Steam-made-screenshots)
Also: Please, calculate your points yourself! I'm far too absentminded to do this for all of you with any accuracy.

 

You can gain (or loose) point by achiving the following design or mission-goals

Goals

- 3-man Mission +10
- 2-man Lander +10
- 2-stage Lander (leave the decent-engine on the Mun) +20
- Main rocket aspargus'd? -10 (Wernher von Kerman does not like aspargus!)
- Launch escape system in place? +10
- Lander stored behind the CM during ascent +20
- Lander tucked away behind some kind of fairing? +5
- Free return trajectory to the Mun +10
- Flawless landing (no parts broke off, Neil Armstrong is watching you!) +10
- Got a Munar Roving Vehicle (MRV) on board? +15
- After succesfull Mun landing dock CM and MM in munar orbit (no swapping ships without docking them first) +10
- MM disposed by crashing it into the Mun (remove Kerbal first!) +5
- Plant flag on the Mun (no cumulative, i.e. two flags don't get you 6 points) +3
- Spashing down on Kerbin (land on water) +5
- Kerbal dies -20

Additional Goals:

- Deploy munar sub-satellite before returning to Kerbin +10 Points

Landing accuracy (not cumulative)

- Land within 5 km of Neil Armstong Memorial (NAM) +5 Points
- Land within 500 m of NAM +10 Points
- Land within 50 meters of the NAM +15

I was roving on the Moon one day... (not cumulative)

- Test drive - drive beyond 100 meters of you lander +2 Points
- Proper shakedown +5 points - Drive beyond 2.5 km of the lander
- Gone drivin' +10 points - Drive beyond 5km of the lander
- Are we there yet? +15 points - Drive beyond 10km of the lander
 

MSEP - Munar Surface Experimental Package (not cumulative)

MSEP must have power, probecore and at least one science-thingy
- Minimalist  +3 points - Deploy one experimental package at landing site
- That'll do +5 points - Deploy two experimental packages at the landing site
- For science! +10 points - Deploy two experimental packages 1 km from the landing site (and at least 1 km from eachother)
- Science extravaganza! +15 points - Deploy four experimental packages 1 km from the landing site (and at least 1 km from eachother)

 

Stock Leaderboard

IncongruousGoat - 218 points
sdj62 - 218 points
Scarecrow - 218 points
Mesklin - 213 points
overkill13 - 208
Martian Emigrant - 198 points
Numerlor - 193 points
Physics Student - 193 points
SuicidalInsanity -188 points
Jetski - 178 points
W.Kerman - 143 points
sevenperforce - 143 points
Gordon Fecyk - 135 points

Modded Leaderboard

Scarecrow - 193 points
foobar - 145 points
Kertech - 143 points

smotheredrun - 128 points
Nefrums - 103 points

Edited by Xeldrak
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Oh.

I want to do that.

Get rid of the other too-many-things-on-the-stove first.

I'll be back.

 

ME

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Sounds like fun!  I am in.  It will be a while though... I am just starting a new Career save.

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Would there be any effect to the score with all celestial bodies and orbits at 4x scale? I don't think there necessarily needs to be (it's not that much more difficult to get to the Mun and back at 4x scale) but the required delta-v is approximately doubled, so I suppose it depends how you want to judge the challenge for scaled-up entries.

Edited by eloquentJane
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I suppose I'll start tings off with the first (all stock) entry.
f09clUl.png
                                                            << Mission report Album >>
Scoring:
Manually flown single launch LOR Mun mission: 30
3 kerbal crew, 2 kerbal lander: 20
2-stage Mun lander: 20
LES present: 10
Lander behind CM, in a fairing during launch: 25
Free return trajectory: 10
Lander lost no parts during landing: 10
Rover present: 15
Lander return stage rendezvous with CM: 10
Planted flag :3
Splashed down: 5
Are we there yet?:15
Science Extravaganza: 15

Total: 188

 

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3 hours ago, SuicidalInsanity said:

I suppose I'll start tings off with the first (all stock) entry.

 That's an awesome lander design. I love the idea with the equipment-compartment. My landers allways had the rover somehow attached sideways :wink:

Edited by Xeldrak

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Hi @SuicidalInsanity.

Who gave you the plans for my rover?:mad:

Parallel-Evolution.

Twins-Separated-At-Birth.

Industrial-espionage.

Counter-Measures-------------------------------------->>>>>> Tin-Foil hats.

 

Joke aside:wink:, the rover I have been readying look almost the same. Even the Science-Stations look similar.

Should be doing the mission and Mission-Report today......Soon anyway.

 

ME

 

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It seems like the upper limit is 188 points, which I will certainly be aiming for at some point.

Also, would it be okay to submit an entry for this challenge that is also part of a submission for Step 2 of the Apollo Applications challenge, or does the mission report for this challenge have to be unique to this challenge? I'd be using the same vehicle designs for both, so I think it would be simplest to avoid re-flying a near-identical mission.

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@eloquentJane Well, a unique mission report would certainly be nice, but as long as you have screenshots to back up your points I'll accept it.

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29 minutes ago, Xeldrak said:

@eloquentJane Well, a unique mission report would certainly be nice, but as long as you have screenshots to back up your points I'll accept it.

It will be a unique mission report. I was mainly wondering - because the Apollo Applications challenge requires a lot of missions and so my mission report will be done in a separate thread in several stages - whether I could also dedicate one of those missions (probably the Apollo 15 mimic because that will be the first one with a rover) to fulfilling the goals of this challenge. 

Edited by eloquentJane

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Hello everyone and Kerbals.

Here is my report....The begining of it anyway....Imgur locked up on me. Fixed.

Does anyone know how to edit a title? Fixed.

My crew is back on Kerbin.

I have to finish uploading pictures and finish my report..... Done

 

But first I need a break and food. :wink: Done that too.

The album: http://imgur.com/a/yd66G

It's all in the report but a few good pics

a8jqD4p.png

1qu32p9.png

OBzyv05.png

 

And a video

NSjFO0r.png

 

W57KJvT.png

iV0kLSt.png

cJsbzPK.png

 

I will be right back with a tabulation.

 

ME

 

 

 

Edited by Martian Emigrant
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The challenge is to get a Kerbal to the Mun and back. But not just in any way - we are doing it Apollo style!
....
- Everything has to be started with a single rocket (no building ships in orbit or refueling in orbit)
- You have to fly a LOR mission (you need a Command Module [CM] and a specialized Munar Module [MM])
- No automated piloting (no mechjeb, do your flying by hand)
- BYOR (Bring your own rocket) - The rocket must be your own design
Just for fullfilling theese criteria you will get thirty points. (+30)

....

- 3-man Mission +10
...
- 2-stage Lander (leave the decent-engine on the Mun) +20
....
- Launch escape system in place? +10
- Lander stored behind the CM during ascent +20
- Lander tucked away behind some kind of fairing? +5
- Free return trajectory to the Mun +10
- Flawless landing (no parts broke off, Neil Armstrong is watching you!) +10
- Got a Munar Roving Vehicle (MRV) on board? +15
- After succesfull Mun landing dock CM and MM in munar orbit (no swapping ships without docking them first) +10
- MM disposed by crashing it into the Mun (remove Kerbal first!) +5
- Plant flag on the Mun (no cumulative, i.e. two flags don't get you 6 points) +3
- Spashing down on Kerbin (land on water) +5
....

- Deploy munar sub-satellite before returning to Kerbin +10 Points

- Land within 5 km of Neil Armstong Memorial (NAM) +5 Points
....

- Are we there yet? +15 points - Drive beyond 10km of the lander

- Science extravaganza! +15 points - Deploy four experimental packages 1 km from the landing site (and at least 1 km from eachother)

Total 198

 

Thank you.

That was fun with a big F.

 

ME

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Nicely done! All stock I guess?

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Can you clarify what stock means? I didn't use part mods, but mods like EEX, KER, and PreciseManeuver. Would that be stock?

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I'm definitely going to take a (stock) shot at this challenge. Should have it all wrapped up sometime tomorrow. Maybe.

 

However... I would like to point out that, in the actual Apollo missions, the CSM rendezvoused with the LM, not the other way around. Not complaining about the challenge, rendezvousing the MM with the CSM makes a lot of sense in the world of KSP. It's just not quite Apollo.

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8 hours ago, qzgy said:

Can you clarify what stock means? I didn't use part mods, but mods like EEX, KER, and PreciseManeuver. Would that be stock?

Well, if I could load your spaceship into a non-modded instance of KSP and you did all the flying by hand, it will be stock. 

 

8 hours ago, IncongruousGoat said:

However... I would like to point out that, in the actual Apollo missions, the CSM rendezvoused with the LM, not the other way around. Not complaining about the challenge, rendezvousing the MM with the CSM makes a lot of sense in the world of KSP. It's just not quite Apollo.

Interesting. Where did you read that? Basically all sources I could find simply mention that CM and LM redevous in orbit, not who is active and who is passive. 

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12 hours ago, Xeldrak said:

Nicely done! All stock I guess?

 

Hey there.

Correct. All stock craft and play. I can offer the craft file if you like.

 

11 hours ago, IncongruousGoat said:

However... I would like to point out that, in the actual Apollo missions, the CSM rendezvoused with the LM, not the other way around. Not complaining about the challenge, rendezvousing the MM with the CSM makes a lot of sense in the world of KSP. It's just not quite Apollo.

 

I do believe you are correct but the my MM had fuel and it's more fun that way (The challenge didn’t specify who has to be boss). I also like to rendez-vous going to a higher altitude.

I don't like to take crafts down (Lyhtosphere) and then go up again (To return to Kerbin).

 

3 hours ago, Xeldrak said:

Interesting. Where did you read that? Basically all sources I could find simply mention that CM and LM redevous in orbit, not who is active and who is passive. 

 

I can't prove it offhand but the CM was the one doing the docking. Not sure who rendez-vooded with the other. I suspect the CM because giving more fuel (Capability) to the LEM made it heavier.

I offer as proof of docker that the docking target was on the LEM. I have never seen a target on a CM.

The CM did the capture while the LEM was in the S-IVB. It's the same all over again. No extra training and equipment.

EDIT I have since found that the LM did the rendezvous.

ME

EDIT

I have found that one of the Apollo 9 objective was a LM to CM docking.

There is a target on the CM. It's removable and goes in a window. The LM has a "Docking window" on top with markings.

csm-lm-rel-att-coord.jpg

https://airandspace.si.edu/collection-objects/docking-target-active-lunar-module-apollo-11

Over the moon......IDK

 

Edited by Martian Emigrant

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59 minutes ago, Martian Emigrant said:

the CM was the one doing the docking

Does this mean that the RCS thruster blocks on the sides of the LM ascent stage are just for attitude control? Or would they be used as a backup if the ones on the command module were to fail?

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13 minutes ago, eloquentJane said:

Does this mean that the RCS thruster blocks on the sides of the LM ascent stage are just for attitude control? Or would they be used as a backup if the ones on the command module were to fail?

Hello.

IDK.

I always was a fan of the Apollo project. But I am still learning. Probably a bit of both. Backups are important when you are all the way over there.

I have just watched an old film (1968) about the concentric rendezvous plan. Apparently the LM was the chaser and doing the rendezvous.

Still trying to find out who docked with whom over the moon. Both had the capability.

 

ME

Edited by Martian Emigrant

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I'm now actually wondering whether the RCS thrusters on the LM were for moving it around when hovering above the surface as the crew searched for a good landing site. Regarding the docking, I would suspect that it was done by the command module now that I think of it, because of the non-androgynous docking ports.

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40 minutes ago, Martian Emigrant said:

Still trying to find out who docked with whom over the moon. Both had the capability.

Why does this matter? The LM ascent stage boosted from the Lunar surface to intercept the CSM. Both craft used their RCS for attitude control with the LM probably fine-tuning the docking with translation, given the illustration you've posted. In KSP it's pretty much academic since you're not dealing with limited engine ignitions and autopilots able to provide a level of mathematical precision based on more information than vanilla KSP will ever expose to you. If you really want to follow the Apollo model then the LM should be the one with rotation and translation RCS while the CSM should only have rotation RCS (possibly accelerate and decelerate, but not X and Y controls). RCS should be the only control used (torque turned off everywhere) and the mod Persistent Rotation should be installed.

27 minutes ago, eloquentJane said:

I'm now actually wondering whether the RCS thrusters on the LM were for moving it around when hovering above the surface as the crew searched for a good landing site.

Since the Apollo mission didn't boast KSP's magical reaction wheels you can safely assume that the RCS was used for pretty much anything related to translation and heading, although not specifically for translation while "hovering". From the illustration posted above it appears that the CSM did not have translation controls, but it may have been able to accelerate or decelerate in orbit.

Quote

Regarding the docking, I would suspect that it was done by the command module now that I think of it, because of the non-androgynous docking ports.

That would make no difference in how the docking proceeded since the ports couple in only one way to begin with.

@Xeldrak were you the guy who posted the Apollo-style to Moho challenge? I never finished that, landed on Moho though... I think like, two or three people took that challenge up.

Edited by regex
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@regex Thanks for that informative post :) Nope, I never postet a Moho-Challenge. I just had the Apollo style challenge and tons of Better Stock Craft Challenges :wink:

Edited by Xeldrak
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And... I've finished!

Mission album here: http://imgur.com/a/VEm2p

Points:

Single launch, manually piloted, LOR mission of my own design: +30

3-man mission: +10

2-man lander: +10

2-stage lander: +20

LES in place: +10

Lander stored behind CM during ascent: +20

Lander tucked away behind some kind of fairing: +5

Free return trajectory to the Mun: +10

Flawless landing: +10

Got a MRV on board: +15

Docked MM and CM in Munar orbit: +10

MM crashed into the Mun: +5

Flag planted: +3

Splashed down on Kerbin: +5

Deploy munar sub-satellite: +10

Land within 50m of the NAM: +15

Are we there yet?: +15

Science Extravaganza!: +15

Total: 218 points

Phew! I think that one 20 km rove constitutes more roving than I've done in every other mission I've ever flown.

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Nicely done! Seems like you are the first one to get max points. 

Maybe I should come up with some more goals....

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