What use for the monopropellant fuel included in pods?

[Invader Jim]

I never use it as the only source.  Most ships I build don't have RCS thrusters.  The ones I build with RCS thrusters always have RSC tanks. 

The amount in the pod seems so small as to be useless.  Am I wrong?  Does anyone include RCS thrusters but no RSC tanks and therefore rely on the pod's RSC fuel as the only source? If so, what can you accomplish with such a small amount of fuel?

 

 

[Gaarst]

Once you gain more experience with docking, the 50 10 or so units of Monoprop in the 1 Kerbal capsule (for example) are more than enough to dock.

I have an interplanetary lander for Apollo-style missions that doesn't use any monoprop storage besides the 40 units in the Mk2 Lander Can, saves mass and part count.

EDIT: docking a 10t module to a space station just costed me 5 units of monoprop...

Edited May 14, 2016 by Gaarst
Corrected monoprop quantity

[Stone Blue]

I usually empty the pod mono tanks in the editor, OR I will lock them, and consider them reserve tanks, incase I prematurely empty the main RCS tanks

[bewing]

As I understand it, they were originally intended to replenish the Kerbonaut's EVA tanks. I hope they eventually are used for that function. But for now, it's mostly just extra weight. I've thought about putting three "Puff" engines around the base of an MK1 pod to see what they can do. But I don't really care.

[Superfluous J]

I've never done it, but during play I've always thought it'd be nice to have a modulemanager config to empty those pesky tanks.

I've spent so much fuel carrying useless monoprop around...

[Norcalplanner]

I rely almost exclusively on the monoprop stored in capsules and cans for my docking of small to medium craft. Once one gets good at docking technique, it's possible to dock and undock 5 or more times with the built-in tanks.

Edit - The Kerbalism mod does borrow monoptop from the craft to put in EVA suits, then returns any unused monoptop when reentering the craft.

Edited May 13, 2016 by Norcalplanner

[Geschosskopf]

7 hours ago, Invader Jim said:

I never use it as the only source.  Most ships I build don't have RCS thrusters.  The ones I build with RCS thrusters always have RSC tanks. 

The amount in the pod seems so small as to be useless.  Am I wrong?  Does anyone include RCS thrusters but no RSC tanks and therefore rely on the pod's RSC fuel as the only source? If so, what can you accomplish with such a small amount of fuel?

@bewing is 100% correct.  I was there when  the command pods suddenly acquired 10x mono per seat at some point.  It was about 0.23 plus or minus an update.

Anyway, prior to that update, jetpacks didn't use any resources AT ALL.  In those High and Far Off Days of Gods and Heroes, EVA Kerbals didn't have a fuel bar and could circumnavigate the whole solar system without spaceships, provided you were willing to hold the "go forward" key down long enough.  But the plan all along had been to have jetpacks burn mono, so the 1st experimental build of whatever update that was had mono-burning jetpacks and added the mono to the command pods specifically for EVA use.

UNFORTUNATELY, back in those ancient days, mono used a fuel drain system that used tanks from the top of the rocket down, ignoring all decouplers between staging.  Thus, the mono in the capsule burned first so if your rocket used RCS at any point along the way between launch and the Kerbals going EVA, there was a very good chance you'd have zero mono in the pod for their jetpacks.  Also, Kerbals in command chairs were considered mono tanks by the RCS system, so they could get out of their chairs and drift away, powerless to return to the ship.

On top of this, Squad had just gone to a lot of trouble, thanks to customer demands, to make mono drain this way.  Don't ask me why anybody thought this was a good idea---I routinely used RCS during launch of heavy rockets before Vernors came along but equipped each stage with its own mono tanks.  But anyway, because of that, Squad didn't want to turn around and undo all that work.

So, the upshot of all this was that Squad kept the mono-draining system as it then was and switched jetpacks to using a new resource called "EVA propellant", of which there is an infinite supply for refueling but Kerbals can only have 5x units of it at any one time.  And that's the system we still have today.

HOWEVER, in the time since, Squad has gone back and changed the mono fuel-draining system to respect stage decouplers, so the mono in pods now stays intact unless the pod is the only mono tank on the rocket and you use RCS.  So that's 1 major hurdle cleared for jetpacks using mono instead of magic "EVA propellant".  But the other problem, that of Kerbals in command chairs still being regarded as mono tanks by the RCS system, still remains AFAIK, and that's a big trap for the unwary.  So I think that's why we still have "EVA propellant" instead of jetpacks using mono.

I see there's a mod these days that makes jetpacks use mono.  I wonder if it deals with the command chair issue?

[Venusgate]

15 hours ago, Gaarst said:

Once you gain more experience with docking, the 50 or so units of Monoprop in the 1 Kerbal capsule (for example) are more than enough to dock.

Point of clarification: there's only 10 MP in the mk1 Which, for a medium and below size craft, IS enough to dock and undock with.

So, to OC, not useless, since it is the smallest full storage unit of monoprop. Can you imagine HAVING to putting those big honkin side pods on a 2 ton ship just to be able to use 2% of their MP? I do agree, I think the default setting should be empty MP, since I waste way more dV carrying that around than the inconvenience of the never-happened "forgetting MP for docking"

[Plusck]

14 hours ago, Venusgate said:

... the never-happened "forgetting MP for docking"

ahem... this happened to me just the other day. However, since I'd forgotten to add MP, I was happily using RCS to rotate the craft until it suddenly stopped working as I was lining up with the space station.

Didn't feel moronically stupid at all, at all.

[Venusgate]

5 hours ago, Plusck said:

ahem... this happened to me just the other day. However, since I'd forgotten to add MP, I was happily using RCS to rotate the craft until it suddenly stopped working as I was lining up with the space station.

Didn't feel moronically stupid at all, at all.

Haven't forgotten MP for docking. Have forgotten a docking port tho.

[Armisael]

Yeah, the pods are hilariously overprovisioned with monoprop for experienced players (especially the mk1 lander can, which has 15 units!).

On 5/13/2016 at 4:30 PM, 5thHorseman said:

I've never done it, but during play I've always thought it'd be nice to have a modulemanager config to empty those pesky tanks.

I've spent so much fuel carrying useless monoprop around...

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleCommand],@RESOURCE[MonoPropellant]]:FINAL
{
  @RESOURCE[MonoPropellant] 
        {
            @amount = 0
        }
}

You're far from the only one. I was a little surprised no one had released this as a mod when I wrote it.

Edited May 15, 2016 by Armisael

[Alshain]

1 hour ago, Armisael said:

Yeah, the pods are hilariously overprovisioned with monoprop for experienced players (especially the mk1 lander can, which has 15 units!).

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleCommand],@RESOURCE[MonoPropellant]]:FINAL
{
  @RESOURCE[MonoPropellant] 
        {
            @amount = 0
        }
}

You're far from the only one. I was a little surprised no one had released this as a mod when I wrote it.

Same here.  It really should be that way in stock, most of the time you don't want it, and the times you do you can fill it.  More of my missions are not intended to dock than those that are.

[kiwi1960]

Its nice to have, you only really miss it when you really need it but dont have it because you stupidly emptied them to save weight...**

Besides, a capsule re-entering the atmosphere should have the extra weight of side tanks as it creates heat... and you can always use it to slow down it you're coming in too fast. Done that a few times, sure, not a big difference, but it helps.

Would you be asking this question had it been oxygen AND your game required your kerbals to breathe?

**how much weight is that RCS fuel compared to a 200 ton lifter? It not going to make a difference either way... even when you are nearly at your destination.