razark Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 "Gus Kerman... We hope nothing catches fire while he's here." @Squad Seriously, it's just wrong. Please remove it or rename the character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r4pt0r Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 They have denied that, and said it was just a coincidence. Even if its not, its a little bit of dark humor, ease up a bit. Its no worse than when they parodied the theory that the Challenger crew was still alive as they fell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razark Posted August 10, 2016 Author Share Posted August 10, 2016 (edited) 46 minutes ago, r4pt0r said: They have denied that, and said it was just a coincidence. Even if it was unintentional, it has been pointed out to them before, they have acknowledged the unfortunate reference, and they have had plenty of time to correct their oversight. 46 minutes ago, r4pt0r said: Even if its not, its a little bit of dark humor, ease up a bit. No. Wrong is wrong. 46 minutes ago, r4pt0r said: Its no worse than when they parodied the theory that the Challenger crew was still alive as they fell. I agree. That was extremely distasteful as well, even more so since Ellison Onizuka was a family friend. My father knew him quite well, and knew all the STS-107 astronauts, as well. I saw what that did to him. That [snip] has no place as "humor" in the game. KSP is a game about space exploration. People are going to make a connection between the game and reality, whether or not it is deserved. Making stupid references in the name of humor to actual people that lost their lives in pursuit of that goal is bad taste, and should not be part of this game. The devs should have enough decorum to keep references to real life loss-of-life incidents out of the game, and if they accidentally include one, they should have the decency to remove it when they become aware of it. Edited August 10, 2016 by Vanamonde Watch the language, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hevak Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 (edited) Space flight is risky business, I see it as a reminder just what is at stake, and just what was lost and sacrificed by many people to achieve what humans have in space. Also at no time did the parody the Challenger disaster, the Challenger was a space shuttle not a rocket. And unfortunately things fail and explode. These people accepted this risk, they all new what they were doing. They all would want that remembered and never forgotten. Im quite sure Gus Grissom would say the exact same thing to you. "If we die we want people to accept it. We are in a risky business, and we hope that if anything happens to us it will not delay the program. The conquest of space is worth the risk of life." Virgil Grissom. This does not sound like a man who would complain about such a thing to me. I believe He would say, accept it. whether intentional or not, accept and use It as a moment of reflection, as I do, and rememberance of not only Grissom, but all the others that sacrificed the utmost to push humans into a new age. I don't think the person who spoke those words above would have a problem with it. And it's neither my nor your decision on how his name should be used or remembered in anyway. And it is Gus Kerman in the game, not Gus Grissom, or Gus Grissom Kerman. It's a completely fictional character. Either way though. I hope squad doesn't give into this new plague of the world that looks to sanitize history so they can have their safe places to reside. SQUAD PLEASE KEEP THIS IN THE GAME DON'T GIVE IN SINE ITS GOT NOTHING TO DO WITH GUS GRISSOM. Edited August 11, 2016 by Hevak Removed provocative material Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket In My Pocket Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 Gus Kerman?! ... #TRIGGERED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZooNamedGames Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 Honestly, I feel guilty myself for the Apollo 1 incident just as anyone who was part of the Apollo program, even though I was born too late to even had done anything. I feel grief stricken just as much as anyone else. But let's take this from the view points of Gus' closest friend, or Chaffey's, or even White's. They knew the risks of the business they were participating in. Gus himself made a quote that someone would die in the pursuit of spaceflight and exploration. All three of the men knew the dangers, and they all knew what would happen. Having said that, if Gus was here today even after his death and he saw this; he would get a laugh, not a rage. He knows it's a joke to his legacy. It shows someone it still thinking about his contributions to the space program, granted the joke is aimed at his death, but nevertheless to know the man's death one would certainly have to know of his actions. It should go without saying that Squad knows of Gus' deeds and his experience. So the point is; it's a friendly joke, that if anything, does good by keeping his memory, even in jest, alive. Not to mention, if Gus was here, he'd laugh and approve. If you want to do Gus the best possible thing; don't dwell on his death negatively. And in the words of one characters discussing the incident in the HBO miniseries From The Earth To The Moon, "Let's stop this witch hunt, and let's us go to the moon". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 Any kerbals named Vladimir with a statement about the chute failing? Maybe a tourist kerbal named Christa and a crack about explosions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZooNamedGames Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 8 minutes ago, tater said: Any kerbals named Vladimir with a statement about the chute failing? Maybe a tourist kerbal named Christa and a crack about explosions? It's one dark inside joke. Don't need to turn a mole hill into a mountain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rocketeer Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 I think it's really important to realise that dark comic references like this aren't laughing at anybody, they're just ironic reminders of real tragedy. Gus is a pretty common name, and also a pretty Kerbal name - I think naming Gus Kerman such and failing to give a nod to Gus Grissom (when Niel Armstrong has a massive sodding monument on the Mun for goodness' sake) would be far worse: it would be insulting. So this is a dark little joke that most kids these days won't even get, but at least it's something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 1 hour ago, ZooNamedGames said: It's one dark inside joke. Don't need to turn a mole hill into a mountain. I'd probably agree if it was, you know, even slightly funny. How about a dark joke like "Someone gave Christa an apple to take with her, but it wound up as applesauce for some reason." Dark, inside humor? I'll admit that I'm not a fan of monument easter eggs, either. YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZooNamedGames Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 4 minutes ago, tater said: I'd probably agree if it was, you know, even slightly funny. How about a dark joke like "Someone gave Christa an apple to take with her, but it wound up as applesauce for some reason." Dark, inside humor? I'll admit that I'm not a fan of monument easter eggs, either. YMMV. It should be left as an inside joke and no more. Such as with the Gus reference. Any more and it would be too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sublight Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 Mabe its referring to Gus Malzhan because Auburn is looking like a dumpster fire the last 2 years. Im a Auburn fan so I can say these things! WAR EAGLE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 My inside joke is less explicit than the Gus joke. Why is the Christa joke too much, but not Gus and fire? Perhaps it's because I recently heard the audio from Apollo 1 on the Space Rocket History Podcast, but when I see Gus and fire mentioned in a spacecraft setting, I can hear the astronauts in the capsule in my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZooNamedGames Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 (edited) 8 hours ago, tater said: My inside joke is less explicit than the Gus joke. Why is the Christa joke too much, but not Gus and fire? Perhaps it's because I recently heard the audio from Apollo 1 on the Space Rocket History Podcast, but when I see Gus and fire mentioned in a spacecraft setting, I can hear the astronauts in the capsule in my head. I never said the Christa joke was too much, but regardless, as long as it's written purposely as a inside dark joke it is fine otherwise it's too much. When I think about it I can imagine far more. So much so I felt it might be a bit dark and left it in a spoiler. You really want to feel bad about it? I can oblige. But I refer to my earlier comment. Let's not argue over a joke. It is what it is. As I said, don't think negatively on the event. It ruins KSP, and moreover is a dishonor to Gus. He would want us to continue on without stopping and looking back and complaining about it. Just laugh and move on. Choose your jokes wisely. With that I'm done with this thread. [snip] Edited August 11, 2016 by Vanamonde let's not get into the gruesome details, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrbitalBuzzsaw Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 What are you all even on about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deddly Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 Some posts have been trimmed from this thread. It's a legitimate discussion, so please keep it on topic and free of personal attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandaman Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 I have mixed feelings about this. Yes I think it's nice to pay tribute and acknowledge the contributions of astronauts and other key people by giving them a mention in some way in the game, whether they be still with us or not. I can also appreciate that it can be much a more sensitive issue if they died doing the job, but that's no less a reason to pay tribute (perhaps even more of a reason to). I don't really feel that simply naming kerbals after them is in itself an issue, but I do see how it could be difficult for relatives and those who knew the individuals or their families if it reminds them of those they lost. It's a bit of a 'no win' scenario really, accused of ignoring them if they aren't mentioned, accused of making fun if they are. Whatever is done it is essential to remain sensitive and respectful to the individuals and their families in all cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razark Posted August 10, 2016 Author Share Posted August 10, 2016 (edited) 45 minutes ago, pandaman said: It's a bit of a 'no win' scenario really, accused of ignoring them if they aren't mentioned, accused of making fun if they are. Whatever is done it is essential to remain sensitive and respectful to the individuals and their families in all cases. I don't have a problem with in-game references. Put a corned beef sandwich in one of the IVAs (I remember seeing this in a mod), or make a two-crewed capsule called the Gusmobile, for example. Gene Kerman is a great reference, and the tribute to Armstrong is fitting. These show a connection between the subject of the game and the reality of that subject; the inspiration that brought many people to the game in the first place. However, I think that the devs should refrain from putting in references to real life disasters in the space programs, especially those that result in the loss of life, with references done for humor. The reference to Gus and fire is taking it too far, crossing into disrespectful territory. I wouldn't have a problem with them naming the island runway the Gus Memorial Airfield. I would see a problem if they named it the "Ted Freeman Memorial Airport and Goose Farm". Edited August 10, 2016 by razark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alshain Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 Call me blind but where are you seeing this line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjp1050 Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 1 minute ago, Alshain said: Call me blind but where are you seeing this line? Admin building. It's Gus's description. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alshain Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 (edited) 1 minute ago, Mjp1050 said: Admin building. It's Gus's description. Lol, I didn't even know the individual Kerbals in the admin building had descriptions. I never use the admin building though. Edited August 10, 2016 by Alshain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XB-70A Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 To me the problem was perfectly summed by a French humorist years ago : You can laugh about everything, but not with everybody. The fact is that we are not crying or laughing at the same subjects around the world. I use to be addict to dark humor and the Brits just are some of the best to me, on the other side I find pee-pee/poo-poo jokes the worst. Now, for my part, this don't have to be change until a referendum/poll could be proposed to the users and that the majority is to correct this mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZooNamedGames Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 1 hour ago, razark said: I don't have a problem with in-game references. Put a corned beef sandwich in one of the IVAs (I remember seeing this in a mod), or make a two-crewed capsule called the Gusmobile, for example. Gene Kerman is a great reference, and the tribute to Armstrong is fitting. These show a connection between the subject of the game and the reality of that subject; the inspiration that brought many people to the game in the first place. However, I think that the devs should refrain from putting in references to real life disasters in the space programs, especially those that result in the loss of life, with references done for humor. The reference to Gus and fire is taking it too far, crossing into disrespectful territory. I disagree. But seeing as I opted out of this thread you can refer to my first and best post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alshain Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 Ok, now that I've gone and looked at it, I don't think the Admin Building "Gus" is in any way a reference or a tribute to Gus Grissom. Look at Gene Kerman, it's an obvious reference. He's even wearing the famous Apollo 13 vest! Gus Kerman in the admin building looks nothing like that. If it were intended to be a reference, they would have put better effort into it. Honestly, I'd say given the other admin characters, it would more likely be a reference to Gus Fring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legoclone09 Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 5 hours ago, Alshain said: Ok, now that I've gone and looked at it, I don't think the Admin Building "Gus" is in any way a reference or a tribute to Gus Grissom. Look at Gene Kerman, it's an obvious reference. He's even wearing the famous Apollo 13 vest! Gus Kerman in the admin building looks nothing like that. If it were intended to be a reference, they would have put better effort into it. Honestly, I'd say given the other admin characters, it would more likely be a reference to Gus Fring. Yeah, I hear somewhere when I first joined it was about him, since he wears the hazmat suit and I think that Gus wears one too in Breaking Physics Bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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