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Artemis Discussion Thread


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50 minutes ago, sevenperforce said:

Okay, hear me out.

ROMBUS + New Glenn.

Take a Delta IV common booster core and put two RS-25s underneath it. Yes, you'll need a fairing. No big deal.

Build two Delta IV CBC hydrogen tanks without the corresponding LOX tank and put Delta IV Heavy nosecones on the top and bottom. Mount those on the sides.

Take two New Glenn first stages, add nose cones, and mount them on the sides (at 90 degrees to the hydrogen tanks) with their methane tanks partially empty.

Crossfeed the New Glenn LOX tanks into the Delta IV CBC LOX tanks, and crossfeed the side-mounted Delta IV hydrogen tanks into the Delta IV CBC hydrogen tank.

Centaur V on top with your TLI payload.

What does that send to TLI? Probably nearly as much as SLS Block 1B, with only two RS-25s, only two RL-10s, and recoverable boosters.

img11.png

Wow, what a frankenrocket.

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6 hours ago, RCgothic said:

Wow, what a frankenrocket.

Well yes. But no more a frankenrocket than SLS, if you think about it.

You'd have to shrink the drop tanks to about 33% of their normal length. But it would send 34 tonnes to TLI with a GLOW of just 2,006 tonnes, significantly smaller than SLS Block 1.

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1 hour ago, SOXBLOX said:

Were the Pyrios booster and F-1B scrapped, or are they still planning to do that, by, like, 2050?

Scrapped. They want to go with bigger, more dangerous, more aggressive solid boosters that weigh less and pack more propellant.

Maybe they can start test-firing those at around the same time that Amazon starts doing same-day lunar deliveries and SpaceX opens up tourist visits to breathe freshly-terraformed Martian air. 

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11 hours ago, sevenperforce said:

Well yes. But no more a frankenrocket than SLS, if you think about it.

You'd have to shrink the drop tanks to about 33% of their normal length. But it would send 34 tonnes to TLI with a GLOW of just 2,006 tonnes, significantly smaller than SLS Block 1.

The SLS frankenrocket cost billions to redesign to fit.  If you are going to build a frankenrocket, look to Orbital and their success with cobbling together surplus ICBMs and modified Pegasus final stages.

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Artemis II requires at least a 20 month minimum turnaround because it's reusing Artemis I's avionics.

Assuming a March 2022 launch of Artemis I, that's pushing A-II towards 2024.

 

 

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21 minutes ago, tater said:

NASA render

Is this a recently released render? If so, it's interesting how their placeholder lander is still included.

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13 minutes ago, RealKerbal3x said:

Is this a recently released render? If so, it's interesting how their placeholder lander is still included.

Yeah. I see why they couldn’t use the selected lander, as Starship has a way of dominating the image and that’s not meant to be the focus there, but they could have just left it out. Looking at the Flickr page, it was uploaded today, but I’m not sure that’s where it first appeared.

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1 minute ago, Beccab said:

Did they remove the "standard" lander they used in the previous renders or is it one of the modules on the left?

The placeholder lander is still there, it's attached at the bottom of the picture.

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More Canadian Artemis news...

https://www.canada.ca/en/space-agency/news/2021/05/canada-moves-forward-with-plans-to-explore-the-moon.html

Highlights: Canada to send develop and send a yet-to-be-designed rover to the Moon within the next five years. Also plans to develop and test other lunar science equipment. 

Sigh. And there’s the old-space contractor developing C3: 

$23 million just to establish technical requirements. Must be related to AJR

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29 minutes ago, sevenperforce said:

Looks like Dragon XL opposite the placeholder lander.

I was wondering whether it was. Are they still planning to fly it?

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1 minute ago, SOXBLOX said:

I was wondering whether it was. Are they still planning to fly it?

I think so but iirc JAXA is planning for HTV-X to also make flights to the moon on H3.

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17 minutes ago, SOXBLOX said:

I was wondering whether it was. Are they still planning to fly it?

They have a contract to do it, so yes.

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Posted (edited)

Great! Then I'm gonna go build a Dragon XL in KSP whenever I get the chance. Sometime. Soon...?

Edited by SOXBLOX
is != in
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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, StrandedonEarth said:

But if SpaceX offers and NASA agrees, Dragon XL could probably be replaced by Starship/LunaShip. Or XL will be delivered inside a Starship

XL in SS is more likely, there is no way gateway can perform station keeping in such docking position. Or maybe a trim down version of XL or even scaled-up XXL that's similar to ISS's MLPM. That will deliver and retrieve with cargo starships like how shuttle did in the past 

Edited by derega16
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I got some interesting additional info from inside Dynetics.

They had dropped the drop-tank design due to the number of safety-critical separation events. They were doing for methalox and they wanted to develop the engine in-house. But apparently they hadn't even decided yet whether to use pressure-feeding or a pump-fed design.

No wonder they got rejected if they didn't even have a concrete engine design.

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