KSP 1 DLCs in KSP 2

[Pthigrivi]

50 minutes ago, t_v said:

I guess some late-game resource puzzles will not be “solvable” with early game tech though, so you probably shouldn’t start on those celestial bodies. 

I don't know though... maybe you're right there are some places that would still work? I think we probably don't know enough about what basic and intermediate resources will be in the game or what the situation will be on Kerbin and launching from KSC so it's hard to guess. Id actually like if in some late-game cases you'd be tempted to switch back to chemical rockets because manufacturing exotic fuels required more energy and infrastructure than just Sabatiering locally abundant ice.  So who knows?

Edited June 13, 2022 by Pthigrivi

[MechBFP]

2 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

No, it would just make things boring. You said it yourself, Kerbin is very familiar, and it'd be dandy if KSP 2 didn't immediately give us unfamiliar lands at the very start of a game.

I guess that sucks for new players then. In either case they are starting with unfamiliar lands. How very sad. 

[Bej Kerman]

21 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

26 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

No, it would just make things boring. You said it yourself, Kerbin is very familiar, and it'd be dandy if KSP 2 didn't immediately give us unfamiliar lands at the very start of a game.

I guess that sucks for new players then. In either case they are starting with unfamiliar lands. How very sad.

I'm not sure why I spent my time on this debate, because the official game isn't going to release with you starting on some random unimportant planet, however big this debate gets. It's going to do the logical thing and start you off on Kerbin and give you novel and interesting alien planets only when you put the effort and time in. How unfortunate.

[mcwaffles2003]

I'd like to work to discover new lands personally. I'd feel a little cheated if I started in a brand new place, but I see KSP 2 just becoming what KSP wishes it could be as opposed to a new game. Kind of like a $60 DLC

[Bej Kerman]

On 6/13/2022 at 1:13 AM, MechBFP said:

I am somewhat dreading being locked into the Kerbin system for an extended period of time, as I highly prefer the progression mode over sandbox.

Wait, so you don't want challenge?

[MechBFP]

3 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

Wait, so you don't want challenge?

Yes exactly, you nailed it. 

[BowlerHatGuy3]

On 6/13/2022 at 3:36 PM, Bej Kerman said:

No, it would just make things boring. You said it yourself, Kerbin is very familiar, and it'd be dandy if KSP 2 didn't immediately give us unfamiliar lands at the very start of a game.

For career/adventure mode yes, but I wouldn’t say the same for sandbox. Its a sandbox mode after all. People are going to mod it into the game anyways.

[SciMan]

@Bej KermanPerhaps @MechBFP doesn't want "challenge" as it is defined by KSP 1 "career" mode, but they are open to "challenge" as in "this mission is hard to pull off"

I don't like how KSP 1's career mode defines "challenge" either, to be fair.
Career in KSP 1 has many problems, not least of which is that it doesn't let you do what you want to do, unless you cheat funding.
Instead, it "forces" you to pay for your upgrades as you are able to afford them, and to continue paying for every rocket or spaceplane or aircraft you send off the pad or runway.

Now on the surface that sound fine, right?
Well it would be, if it wasn't for the fact that the primary way you can earn money in KSP is by doing contracts. And contracts are a gigantic mess. Even saying they're a gigantic mess is an understatement.

The contracts you can reliably do, don't generate much funding (low risk low reward).
The ones that pay enough to actually be worth doing, are so challenging that you still don't generate much funding because you end up using most of the funding that the mission rewards you with (upon completion not upon acceptance) to simply complete the mission, and while it's a big mission it's still not "what I wanted to do" at all.

So what is one to do in order to do exactly what I want to do, and be rewarded for it? Certainly not play KSP 1 career, that's my thinking.

I'm not saying I want to stick with only going to the Mun and/or Minmus and back. I've mastered that, I want something different.

But the majority of contracts in KSP 1 career mode that are something I can make an actual small profit on without spending a year or more of in-game time "not doing what I want" focus on going to exactly those two locations.

Going from that, I totally understand why some don't want any kind of "money" resource in KSP 2 at all, since all it seemed to add to KSP 1 was "tedium" and let's be honest, the main reason people play video games is to have fun, so anything that makes the game not fun is probably not a good idea to put in the game (that being said, the same thing in some OTHER game might make that other game MORE fun, sometimes puzzle pieces fit where you don't expect them to).

Now how does this tie into KSP 1 DLC's in KSP 2? Well I think that both of the KSP 1 DLC's added things that were fun to KSP 1. So I see no reason to leave any of that out of KSP 2.

Edited June 18, 2022 by SciMan

[Bej Kerman]

30 minutes ago, SciMan said:

@Bej KermanPerhaps @MechBFP doesn't want "challenge" as it is defined by KSP 1 "career" mode, but they are open to "challenge" as in "this mission is hard to pull off"

I know the difference between difficulty and challenge, and I'm not sure why you are calling them the same thing. I also don't know why you bring career up.

[SciMan]

I was calling them the same thing because I thought you might have been mixing them up, from what you've just said it seems I was mistaken, so I apologize for that.

I brought up career because what it is is difficult, what it is not is challenging.
But additionally, Career is extremely frustrating because it seems to put so many things between what you can do right now and what you want to do "today", and that needs to change in KSP 2's "adventure" mode. Not sure how exactly they're gonna pull that off, but I hope whatever they're doing works. If that means putting in loads of anti-frustration features, so be it, so long as they're not things that disobey the laws of physics.

[Pthigrivi]

On 6/19/2022 at 1:38 PM, SciMan said:

But additionally, Career is extremely frustrating because it seems to put so many things between what you can do right now and what you want to do "today", and that needs to change in KSP 2's "adventure" mode. 

One of the strange things about KSP1s design is that you actually can just go do what you want right now because there are a series of hidden contracts that reward you whenever you explore or land on a new body. You can support your whole program just on these and never take one of the procedurally generate contracts. I say it’s strange because these are the most important contracts in the game and the UI seems to go out of its way to not inform players of their existence. 

[SciMan]

I've seen those contracts. At the scale that I operate at, those contracts simply don't pay well enough to sufficiently fund my program to do the grand things I like to do.

I don't do "flags and footprints". When I go somewhere, I do it so that in the worst case scenario the crew of the mission would be able to live out the rest of their natural lives in the habitats they bring with them, or given exploitation of natural resources, expand said habitats to an entire proper colony capable of launching missions in its own right.

Alternatively, if I'm not intending to build a colony on a planet or moon, I'll still visit every biome, just I'll do it with lander probes or a biome hopper instead.

EL and USI are big mods that I like using in KSP 1, with those and Nertea's mods (including FFT) and a few quality-of-life mods (such as PersistentThrust and PersistentRotation) it seems that's the closest I can get to KSP 2's experience using the mods we have now.