Massive speculation on the original scope of KSP2.

[Strawberry]

While we do not know the current state of the game , nor do we know the exact state of the game 3 years ago, we do know some of the pieces, and from these pieces massive speculation is possible on where the game was and where it is.  This thread is here for me to speculate massively on the history of development of this game.  First off, the basic implications we can get through indirect assumptions. Developers are prioritizing showing off early stuff. It makes no sense to spoil the stuff that will happen late in the game and instead leave it to mystery.  As importantly, we can assume that before the scope of the game expanded, the version of the game we saw before the first delay was expected to be finished by 2020. 

For what the game was planned to be before the first delay, I think we've already seen most if not all of it. I am fairly certain initially only one other solar system was planned, and that was the deb deb system.  This makes sense for a few reasons, only one of the planets we have seen in the original trailer has not been confirmed to be in the deb deb, and that is rask and rusk. However considering rusk and rask is a planetary system that will inevitably end in them crashing into each other (as confirmed by the devs), it really only makes sense to be in an early solar system (like what deb deb is). If there was more to the game at that point, then why would they show off nearly an entire solar systems contents and not share the load of dampening surprise. Pre first delay, if there was another solar system planned, it would've already been in the works and assets would've been in a state you could show off, it makes no sense to ruin the exploration of one system while keeping another system untapped for marketing. Not only that, but deb deb makes the most sense for ease of implementation. Deb Deb is a "young kerbin", this means it has roughly a similar star, which means in terms of height of orbits of planets, size of the sun, etc it would've been roughly similar.

In terms of new parts, I don't think it would be that much. One thing that's interesting about the early trailers is that no radiators are shown on any of the vehicles. Considering the introduction of procedural radiators, we can assume that they are now a large aspect of gameplay, despite this however, this was absent in the initial plan of the game. A major aspect of late game play was simply not there, and probably not even planned for predelay ksp2. Not only that, but operating under the assumption of there being only one other star system, having a wide array of interstellar and local engines just doesn't really make sense. You're only going to use interstellar engines for literally going from two different locations. Id guess initially an orion style for your first interstellar engine, a Daedalus for your next, and finally some exotic interstellar engine like a helical engine. We know that Deb Deb will have similar orbital heights to Kerbol due to a similar star, this means that for local travel, there's really no new niches that need to be filled. The only new parts that would really make sense would be parts that are just this part but better, a better NERV style engine, a better chemical engine (metal hydrogen), etc. 

In terms of colony gameplay and life support, I think it was planned to be far more simple then currently. The only minor hint that life support was going to be a concern in ksp2 is the use of ringed habitats seen in the trailer, however these could've easily been in the game at that state mostly to serve the gameplay function of looking cool. If you look in the cinematic trailer and pay close attention, you'll notice a distinct lack of variation in the colony buildings. We know now that kerbals will probably need food, considering a colony module shown to be a garden, however considering that food being a resource that's critical to worry about, its odd that this was never shown off in the initial trailer. I think that in the predelay ksp2, colonies served the gameplay function of advanced isru, rocket building, and that was it. In terms of life support, it was basically non existent. 

The most noticeable difference between ksp2 pre delay and currently however is by far graphics. Graphics is the first thing players notice about a game, and its critical for marketing you put a good foot forward. The graphics we saw in initial gameplay was likely roughly planned to be equal to the graphics that were planned to be released. Keep in mind that developers would likely put most work in terms of look of a planet towards the planets they expect to be most seen and cared about, so compare the early image of eeloo to the most recent images shown (Just scroll down in knowledge repository ).

Overall, what was the original scope of ksp2? While we may never know (devs once youre done finishing the game some documentation here would be lovely, Id happily watch a ksp2 documentary or something), from what we can tell not much, it mostly seemed like ksp 1.5, slightly better graphics, some new parts and some new planets.

Edited July 22, 2022 by Strawberry

[Bej Kerman]

1 hour ago, Strawberry said:

no radiators are shown on any of the vehicles

The vessel landing on Merbel had radiators. There are probably a few other instances of radiators you missed.

[Strawberry]

Oh huh yeah youre right, was focused on the gameplay footage and was paying attention more to the larger spacecraft, guess that stuff was still in the prototype phase at that point

[Bej Kerman]

Just now, Strawberry said:

Oh huh yeah youre right, was focused on the gameplay footage and was paying attention more to the larger spacecraft, guess that stuff was still in the prototype phase at that point

Use a quote so people know you're replying to them, it's polite.

[Pthigrivi]

In broad terms the answer is unknowable for us outside observers. Not just that, but we can't know if Star Theory had actually locked down a realistically achievable scope at that time. From the things Nate Simpson listed off even in those early days I don't get the sense that his vision of the original scope has changed wildly, only probably been fleshed out in all the in-between spaces. I think we knew early on the core dev crew wanted interstellar, colonies, and multiplayer, but as you dive into to actually delivering those things in a satisfying way a lot of other less obvious problems crop up that you need to solve. Things like how does UI work for brachistochrone trajectories at interstellar distances? What are the actual rules and management needs of supply runs? How do we create a robust set of tutorials to get new players over that steep initial learning curve? How do colonies actually function and what are the progression dynamics of exploration and resource gathering? Even without covid I'd have been deeply suspicious of any claim that these subtler problems could have been solved in a way that produced a truly rich game within a year let alone 6mo of the initial announcement. None of us can know the politics of that but all the things I've seen thus far give me some hope that they're applying real thoughtfulness to the hard problems. 

Im withholding judgment on Science, LS, and habitation. We'll just have to see what they have cooked up closer to release. My hope is for at least some simple yet robust ground-floor mechanics that impel players to keep exploring and make Kerbals and their wellbeing important for colonization and growth.

Edited July 23, 2022 by Pthigrivi

[Ahres]

On 7/22/2022 at 6:35 PM, Bej Kerman said:

Use a quote so people know you're replying to them, it's polite.

Say please when telling a stranger to do something, please. It's polite. 

[K33N]

Quote

 crashing into each other (as confirmed by the devs), 

I think you are misunderstanding the devs here, the idea is that in million(s) of years they crash into each other, not in gameplay.

[MechBFP]

50 minutes ago, K33N said:

I think you are misunderstanding the devs here, the idea is that in million(s) of years they crash into each other, not in gameplay.

You know someone is still going to timewarp millions of years and be disappointed right? 

Would be amusing if they actually added that as an Easter egg though. 

[Strawberry]

3 hours ago, K33N said:

I think you are misunderstanding the devs here, the idea is that in million(s) of years they crash into each other, not in gameplay.

My point wasnt that this is going to be a gameplay feature, my point was that due to the relatively short time span of such an astronomical system, it existing in anything but an early solar system makes no sense.

[K33N]

On 7/25/2022 at 4:43 PM, Strawberry said:

My point wasnt that this is going to be a gameplay feature, my point was that due to the relatively short time span of such an astronomical system, it existing in anything but an early solar system makes no sense.

Again, you are not understanding several things here.  

[Strawberry]

1 hour ago, K33N said:

Again, you are not understanding several things here.  

Not understanding what exactly? For comparison our solar system is billions of years old, a system that is inherently only stable for millions of years wont be found in any solar system but a very young one. Its pretty safe to say that the astronomical body themed to be fitting in a young solar system will be in the young solar system. 

[Kerbart]

On 7/22/2022 at 7:03 PM, Strawberry said:

Overall, what was the original scope of ksp2? While we may never know (devs once youre done finishing the game some documentation here would be lovely, Id happily watch a ksp2 documentary or something), from what we can tell not much, it mostly seemed like ksp 1.5, slightly better graphics, some new parts and some new planets.

That is actually remarkably easy to answer: "Like KSP1 but more awesome." How that awesomeness manifests itself, we'll have to find out...