[1.12] Extraplanetary Launchpads v6.99.3

[Rebelgamer]

^^Yes, but you have to have all the rocketparts necessary to build it. With progressive build on, it takes time, but you are able to produce the rocketparts necessary while the build is going on.

This mod is a godsend if you play RSS or any of its mods. I was playing the 10x kerbin mod, but dropped back to the 6.4x mod as I needed to simplify my mod directory and could then remove the realfuels and engine mods that were needed for 10x.

Seed operations are a lot simpler to pull off than trying to ship an entire base in one go. My last base I built on Minimus, I sent three flights there, the first was unmanned, just a smelter, auger and storage for both, with the smallest reactor from KSPI for continuous power. The second one was also unmanned, it was just a cargo flight containing as much life support as I could lift, so the kerbals would have enough for at least a year. The third flight was just command capsule for control and a survey station. The funnest part was getting everything down within 20m of each other. Built out a base using MKS, only thing I get from Kerbin now is the one way ferry flights of kerbals to the base, as all flights to other bodies now occurs from there.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Rebelgamer

[Kerba Fett]

Just wanted to confirm that my system is now doing instant builds after editing my persistence file and ask another question.

Recycled ships just return scrap metal rather than rocket parts, right? And if you don't have scrap storage you get nothing?

What about any fuel or monopropellant? Is that salvaged?

[undercoveryankee]

Just wanted to confirm that my system is now doing instant builds after editing my persistence file and ask another question.

Recycled ships just return scrap metal rather than rocket parts, right? And if you don't have scrap storage you get nothing?

What about any fuel or monopropellant? Is that salvaged?

Any resources on a recycled ship are salvaged if you have storage for them. The resource produced by recycling structural mass is configurable, but defaults to Metal. http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/59545-0-25-Extraplanetary-Launchpads-v4-4-0?p=1553700&viewfull=1#post1553700 You'll need containers for whatever you have HullRecycleTarget set to.

[taniwha]

riocrokite: Actually, I'm quite cool with whatever you do in your mod and I tried to write in such a way as to express "here is my thinking and thus why EL is the way it is" rather than saying what you should do. I am glad you understand my thinking (and a little surprised at your decision, actually). However, I have to thank you: you have shown that I really need to document the philosophy behind EL. But again, for the purpose of enabling informed decisions .

Joshwoo69: When I get MFT working. I was testing out some MFT tanks that support type switching (fuel->utility (eg, Metal)) and things went pear-shaped. I am working on this currently (and in danger of losing my hair ).

Rebelgamer: thanks for the report from the RSS trenches. I've always suspected/hoped EL would help there and it's nice to have that confirmed.

Kerba Fett: I'm glad you got it working. undercoveryankee (thanks) has you covered nicely on recycling. Just one thing: certain resources (mainly SolidFuel) always "evaporate" (ie, cannot be reclaimed).

[Wetapunga]

Hey Taniwha I have a request for future updates

Could we have a spacedock part designed specifically for expanding ships/stations? Often you want to build a new station wing, like another storage module on your orbital factory, you can build it from a spacedock but now you have the problem of trying to manoeuvre two enormous ungainly objects around and attach them with docking ports. Could we have a spacedock that lets you build out from it, and instead of releasing it can convert to a connection, just a solid strong piece with no dock functionality anymore.

So if you want to expand your spacestation you can attach several of these expansion construction units, build out from them, and when complete it becomes a permanent attached part of the station

Paint scribbles to communicate idea

This functionality should be quite easy to implement and greatly enhances the usefulness of EPL when expanding existing structures. You could have a variety of these dock sizes, from great big ones for building mega station expansions out from an initial factory; down to little KAS attachable ones so you can surface attach a new little dock and build mini expansions out.

In my current project my little self sufficient OKS station had the infrastructure to run an orbital dock, but not enough raw material or rocket part storage so I kept having to run several supply missions too complete a build. I decided it was time for an expansion

Whare o te marama Station in its early days

With only enough storage for 20000ish rocket parts and ore it couldn't build things bigger than itself

So a large expansion was built over many months or shuttle transfers sending resources gradually to the station to build the new project, the expansion took nearly 200,000 rocket parts.

The new expansion was so massive that docking it would be impossible. Instead I backed off the little station which weighs only 300 tons and carefully docked it to its new giant section. I definitely wouldn't be able to do that again with the station weighing about 20,000 tons with minimal cargo. There is now no practical way too add more sections, which is why the expansion dock would be very very useful addition.

Almost finished now, Henkel the spider kerbal got bored of spinning his web (KAS can be rather tedious) so a few arms remain unstrung

Edited December 4, 2014 by Wetapunga

[RainDreamer]

-post-

So, a little off topic, but....how much parts does your station have, and how exactly do you even run something that huge without crashing? O_o

[Wetapunga]

So, a little off topic, but....how much parts does your station have, and how exactly do you even run something that huge without crashing? O_o

It's only 396 parts, most of the lag comes from the background processing of the OKS modules and 40 crew lifesupport. Still gets a reasonable FPS

Roverdude makes huge parts, the expansion section has less parts than the habitat section, about 100 of the parts are the decorative MKS tubes making my spiderweb

[RoverDude]

To be honest roverdude.

HOW YOU MANAGE SO MANY MODS?

also I imagine mining > ore extraction > purifying > washing/cleaning > turn to metal > kerbal hammer in to rocket parts/3d printing rocketparts > rockets!

To me thats TOOO long.

*hears protesters requesting modular parts*

Taniwha can we have modular parts pls? It would be easier and less space wastage in the parts tab. Like searching for a single part will take a while in a big mod pack.

also Taniwha tell me what is progressive builds? When I off it, it insta builds ships?

For clarity - the ore extraction/purify/ing/washing chain is not mine nor will it be a part of MKS/OKS as I'm taking a very different angle - and it's less about making Ore more complex and more about rocket parts taking more than metal (again, just for MKS).

So rather than Ore->Metal->RocketParts it's Ore/Substrate/Minerals into Metal/Chemicals/Polymers (your typical MKS chain) into Structural,Electronic, and Mechanical parts, and those three combined into a RocketPart. All done with a very small part count (it will be more of an issue getting all of the raw materials you need as you need three types v. one).

Now, if someone wants to extend MKS, rock on

[riocrokite]

For clarity - the ore extraction/purify/ing/washing chain is not mine nor will it be a part of MKS/OKS as I'm taking a very different angle - and it's less about making Ore more complex and more about rocket parts taking more than metal (again, just for MKS).

So rather than Ore->Metal->RocketParts it's Ore/Substrate/Minerals into Metal/Chemicals/Polymers (your typical MKS chain) into Structural,Electronic, and Mechanical parts, and those three combined into a RocketPart. All done with a very small part count (it will be more of an issue getting all of the raw materials you need as you need three types v. one).

Now, if someone wants to extend MKS, rock on

Interesting. I'm guessing you'll use smelter only for ore-metal conversion and other resources conversion will be dealt by different modules?

Also do you plan do boost resource conversion rate (especially substrate->chemicals and minerals->polymers) in your MKS modules or just tweak rocketparts requirements so you need tiny amounts of electronic and mechanical parts compared to structural parts?

[RoverDude]

Interesting. I'm guessing you'll use smelter only for ore-metal conversion and other resources conversion will be dealt by different modules?

Also do you plan do boost resource conversion rate (especially substrate->chemicals and minerals->polymers) in your MKS modules or just tweak rocketparts requirements so you need tiny amounts of electronic and mechanical parts compared to structural parts?

I'm using the bits that already exist in MKS for Ore->Metal conversion, no need to change those as they just work. There will be no boost to productivity or change of any requirements to make rocketparts - for now they need to stay even since I will also be using recycle bins and they need the same composition as MKS recyclables. So your typical part will have an even split of MKS tier 3 stuff in it. That will very likely change once Taniwha introduces recipes.

Taniwha - if possible can we collaborate on whatever you do for recipes in stock EL? I'd like to reuse resources between our two mods to avoid making people's resource panel any larger

[riocrokite]

I'm using the bits that already exist in MKS for Ore->Metal conversion, no need to change those as they just work. There will be no boost to productivity or change of any requirements to make rocketparts - for now they need to stay even since I will also be using recycle bins and they need the same composition as MKS recyclables. So your typical part will have an even split of MKS tier 3 stuff in it. That will very likely change once Taniwha introduces recipes.

Taniwha - if possible can we collaborate on whatever you do for recipes in stock EL? I'd like to reuse resources between our two mods to avoid making people's resource panel any larger

RoverDude: Yah, for know it seems that we are both extending stuff (considering rocket parts production). Thus having to build full MKS base in your mod to produce rocket parts and then adding my mod (additional machinery to reprocess ore into metal) might be too much of a hassle. Or too many parts in one place;) We'll see how it works.

Taniwha: Regarding my plans nothing is set in stone yet. I would also appreciate some information regarding planned changes to EPL material requirements:)

cheers

[ttr]

Hi. Few things in single post so already let me apologize.

Someone (i think archont) few pages before had problems with crash / explosion when 'delivering' vehicle after it's being build - Kerbal Joint Reinforcement is causing this as upon spawning new vehicle it's checking it status (which is Landed) and then calculating it's distance from ground and correcting distance so it's just above, which is essentially putting it inside launchpad, then physics engine is restarted and boom.

Next - few weeks back, I've started working on unofficial fork of this mod that would integrate natively into OKS/MKS and Community resources - so it's using Metal and electrical/mechanical/structual parts based of mass ass opposite to Metal and Rocket parts; I've also stripped need for smelter and other scan/production chain as MKS/OKS is having those (and use ScanSat mod for resource scan). Reason I've did not mentioned this before is that just few days ago I've mad it working in some decent manner and (more important) I've did not yet discuss this with respective authors of EL and MKS/OKS mods.

However I can see that RoverDude (who is author of latter one) is already on this also so I'm willing to send to you whatever I've did and found out and offer any help (ping me on PM)

One last question (and if it was asked before apologizes again as I've did not found this) - do EL process build in background ? As when i go back to space station and accelerate time (i.e. skip one day) it looks that build is not progressing at all.

EDIT:

And I've found anwser (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/59545-0-25-Extraplanetary-Launchpads-v4-4-0/page186)

taniwha, not sure how strict and exact you want to be, but simple method will be to store time of last update in Vessel config, and on next focus to that vessel mod will do quick calculation of how much time passed and how much build should progress and how much resources chould be used in that time, then check if all those resources are avaiable. If not then correct above calculations to smalles avaiable one. last part would be to deduct them from base resources and jump in build progress. This is far away from ideal but it's more-less fair IMO.

Edited December 6, 2014 by ttr

[Hevak]

Taniwha said most likely next update will include background building. Things can change though. But he has the code on GitHub and said people are free to try it if you know what to do with the info there.

Its definately coming soon unless something major changes his mind.

[RoverDude]

@ttr - at this point I'm in good shape unless you're a modeler Code is done, just have a couple of models to finish - and I am also holding off till 0.90 since I'd just as soon break saves only once.

[ttr]

@RoverDude - Also programer (sysadmin to be exact) And good to hear that things are progressing.

@Hevak - cool. I'm playing with his code already. Thanks for info.

[riocrokite]

Hi. Few things in single post so already let me apologize.

Someone (i think archont) few pages before had problems with crash / explosion when 'delivering' vehicle after it's being build - Kerbal Joint Reinforcement is causing this as upon spawning new vehicle it's checking it status (which is Landed) and then calculating it's distance from ground and correcting distance so it's just above, which is essentially putting it inside launchpad, then physics engine is restarted and boom.

Next - few weeks back, I've started working on unofficial fork of this mod that would integrate natively into OKS/MKS and Community resources - so it's using Metal and electrical/mechanical/structual parts based of mass ass opposite to Metal and Rocket parts; I've also stripped need for smelter and other scan/production chain as MKS/OKS is having those (and use ScanSat mod for resource scan). Reason I've did not mentioned this before is that just few days ago I've mad it working in some decent manner and (more important) I've did not yet discuss this with respective authors of EL and MKS/OKS mods.

However I can see that RoverDude (who is author of latter one) is already on this also so I'm willing to send to you whatever I've did and found out and offer any help (ping me on PM)

One last question (and if it was asked before apologizes again as I've did not found this) - do EL process build in background ? As when i go back to space station and accelerate time (i.e. skip one day) it looks that build is not progressing at all.

EDIT:

And I've found anwser (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/59545-0-25-Extraplanetary-Launchpads-v4-4-0/page186)

taniwha, not sure how strict and exact you want to be, but simple method will be to store time of last update in Vessel config, and on next focus to that vessel mod will do quick calculation of how much time passed and how much build should progress and how much resources chould be used in that time, then check if all those resources are avaiable. If not then correct above calculations to smalles avaiable one. last part would be to deduct them from base resources and jump in build progress. This is far away from ideal but it's more-less fair IMO.

@TTR: since you're programmer and you're into RoverDude and Taniwha mods (USI/EPL) and since both of those guys are extremely occupied, maybe I could borrow your help in respect to coding functionality for my mod? I'm much more efficient modelling and texturing stuff than coding and debuging. Let me know if you're interested.

[taniwha]

Hi. Few things in single post so already let me apologize.

Someone (i think archont) few pages before had problems with crash / explosion when 'delivering' vehicle after it's being build - Kerbal Joint Reinforcement is causing this as upon spawning new vehicle it's checking it status (which is Landed) and then calculating it's distance from ground and correcting distance so it's just above, which is essentially putting it inside launchpad, then physics engine is restarted and boom.

This is actually not KJR. I mentioned this to ferram4 on IRC...

<ferram4> Kerbal Joint Reinforcement does not change the vessel's location on load.

<ferram4> It simply detects that it is landed, gradually increases gravity from 0, and makes sure that no joints can be destroyed on load.

Now, from what I know about the vessel startup sequence, it is KSP itself that does this (unfortunately, it wasn't until after mentioning this to ferram4 that I remembered). However, I wen to a lot of trouble to ensure that EL causes KSP to not do this (by clearing the landed flag), though it's possible a bug snuck in.

Next - few weeks back, I've started working on unofficial fork of this mod that would integrate natively into OKS/MKS and Community resources - so it's using Metal and electrical/mechanical/structual parts based of mass ass opposite to Metal and Rocket parts; I've also stripped need for smelter and other scan/production chain as MKS/OKS is having those (and use ScanSat mod for resource scan). Reason I've did not mentioned this before is that just few days ago I've mad it working in some decent manner and (more important) I've did not yet discuss this with respective authors of EL and MKS/OKS mods.

Quite understandable keeping things under wraps until you're ready .

Are you using EL's BuildCost system? This is exactly what it was written for.

Taniwha said most likely next update will include background building. Things can change though. But he has the code on GitHub and said people are free to try it if you know what to do with the info there.

Its definately coming soon unless something major changes his mind.

My mind won't change (ie, "background" builds will be in the next release), but its mechanics may change in the future, but not before the next release. I want to get kerbal experience effects updating properly and background builds being truly background, and then even use the message system to announce the completion of the build. This is, however, a rather non-trivial task from this viewpoint, thus it will have to wait.

[riocrokite]

@Taniwha

Since you're extending EPL now, I have a question. How difficult would be to add some kind of configuration parameter to EPL/parts i.e. that some advanced part might be constructed in zero-G gravity only or on a body of gravity of Mun or less.

optional parameters for part - the part (ship with the part) can be build if:

- distance from the sun (central star) is less or more than x

- gravity is less or more than y

- pressure is more or less than z

- distance from kerbin is more or less than w

- sphere of influence is 1 or 0

- cost modifier (% of materials normally used)

I don't know whether it is hard or easy to implement those kind of parameters, but I think it would give a ground for many new/extension mods in the future (i.e. advanced technology parts that can be built only on very low gravity bodies that are far from sun so you have to travel and build infrastructure there to build them Or a part that costs less to produce in zero-g gravity so you can have a scenario with a mass production zero-g orbital station (or asteroid station?) and then move parts back to kerbin for profit:)

[ttr]

This is actually not KJR. I mentioned this to ferram4 on IRC...

Now, from what I know about the vessel startup sequence, it is KSP itself that does this (unfortunately, it wasn't until after mentioning this to ferram4 that I remembered). However, I wen to a lot of trouble to ensure that EL causes KSP to not do this (by clearing the landed flag), though it's possible a bug snuck in.

Hmm - ok. I've did blame KJR as when I have it enabled it always crash in some way (including pulling up into space my whole base) yet when I've removed it from mods, It worked as expected (tried 3 times)

Quite understandable keeping things under wraps until you're ready .

Are you using EL's BuildCost system? This is exactly what it was written for.

I also hate to deliver less then half baked solution

And, yes - used it but possibly in wacky - hacky way:

in CostReport function i've added 3 additional resources and values where used based on pct of hull mass (10% is electronic parts, 50% metal, etc.)... not sure if there is any .cfg file for defying those (coding at 3am)

and then in part (launchpad) definition, adjusted resources.

Small note (and bit off topic): empty launchpad (no resources stored in it) had negative funds value so you might look into this. Also - why it have need for crew members ? IMO will be more logic to have it "unmanned" and you need to have connected workshop for production/launch - no one will be sitting next to launchpad (front row) while few hounded ton of jet fuel is burn

Also - dud not played with other construction modules yet (like airstrip / orbital dock)

My mind won't change (ie, "background" builds will be in the next release), but its mechanics may change in the future, but not before the next release. I want to get kerbal experience effects updating properly and background builds being truly background, and then even use the message system to announce the completion of the build. This is, however, a rather non-trivial task from this viewpoint, thus it will have to wait.

[Angelo Kerman]

Do I understand correctly that for the recycle bin, all I need do is right click the part to turn it on, then fly a ship into it?

[Superfluous J]

Do I understand correctly that for the recycle bin, all I need do is right click the part to turn it on, then fly a ship into it?

Yes. You should probably get the Kerbal out first though...

[undercoveryankee]

Yes. You should probably get the Kerbal out first though...

Do you get resources if you recycle a kerbal? If Kethane is installed, it would make sense to give the same amount of kethane as the KE-WAITNONOSTOP Unreconstitutionator.

[Angelo Kerman]

Yes. You should probably get the Kerbal out first though...

Ha! Will do. Thanks for the info.

[RainDreamer]

Very quick question: So if I want to drill anything up with those auger, I need kerthane?

[Snoman314]

That or Karbonite.