Yemo

[1.3.x] SETI, Unmanned before Manned [Patreon]

Recommended Posts

Hello Yemo

Sorry for asking, there's something I can't quite figure out. Ever since installing your (awesome, by the way) tech tree, I've noticed several science instruments that no longer provide any science experiment while in flight, with no option on rightclick (and science alert doesn't see them either). The ones I've found so far that behave like this are the ones from Sounding Rockets! and Kerbal Dust Experiments

Was this changed by you in some way? Or is it an unfortunate incompatibility?

Thanks!

Hm, I do not change any of them in particular, though they might be affected by some general SETIctt MM patches.

Unfortunately, Sounding Rockets does not have the 1.0.4 tag at the moment and it does not quite fit the current SETI "balance". Since I did not want to rebalance it for SETIctt (especially since RoverDude really does not like it, when his stuff is rebalanced) and check for 1.0.4 issues, I can not support it for SETIctt at the moment.

There is a similar problem with Kerbal Dust Experiments, which seems to be for KSP 0.25. Due to the nature of SETI, I encourage everyone to bring problems to me first, if the problem is not clearly the fault of the particular mod. Thus supporting ancient mods potentially increases support requests by an order of magnitude, which would be too much for me to cope with.

I ll probably test SoundingRockets during the weekend, but I can not promise to find the issues, since it is not officially supported by SETIctt and there are no plans to do so in the near future.

Found possible error with one engine in tech tree but dont know whee to post it, here in tech tree thread or some other mod thread because I have number of mod installed and could not figure it out in what mod are this engines and their cfg file placed.

Engines are named: "Merlin Family Rocket Engine [1.75]" and in tech tree are located in "Survivability". Plus they came with five engine configurations: 1A, 1C, 1CVac, 1D, 1DVac, and are all unlocked from start.

AFAIK SETI ctt doesn't alter any RealismOverhaul stuff.

Also, if you are doing a RealismOverhaul game, you should probably be using the Realistic Progression Zero mod as they are designed to go together.

In fact I'm not even sure if SETI ctt would work with RealismOverhaul as that mod changes everything...

Anyway, I'd go to their thread and ask them your question.

Yep, same as above. I do not change anything in particular, but it could be affected by general SETIctt MM patches (though unlike the science experiments, it is unlikely for engines).

As Nori wrote, since RP-0 is the dedicated RealismOverhaul tech tree, there is almost no demand for SETIctt compatibility with RealismOverhaul parts. And it would be a lot of work to sort through all the rebalances by SETI and by RealismOverhaul, thus making them effectively incompatible.

I think I found a bug with the parachutes. They are all tiny when deployed. It's not only a visual glich. It behaves the same way. Also when I installed real chutes mod the camera will randomly go miles away from the ship and I can't make it to get back to the ship. After a cuple of seconds the ship would randomly explode. Sorry if this was already disscused somewhere else. It's 22.00 in the night for me and I'm tired as hell. Please reply to this as soon as posible. Sorry if this is not a bug or if it is the result of other mods bugs. I love your mod. :)

Hm, I ve seen this micro-parachutes issue in KSP 0.90.

Could you please provide a screenshot of your GameData folder? If you installed via ckan, please export the the mods into a .ckan file and provide the contents of that one as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I apologize for asking a question that's been asked many times before, but I'm still very confused as to what mods are appropriate to install in addition to those included in the Basic SETI pack linked in the OP.

I love that a lot of balancing has been done around the tech tree, and I don't want to ruin the progression arc by including the wrong mods---I abandoned my last career playthrough because a few of my mods weren't balanced with the rest (e.g. KW Rocketry), and some critical components for unmanned missions were locked behind the first (expensive!) R&D building upgrade. That being said, the Basic SETI pack isn't going to be enough to sustain me: I'm planning for this to be an extended career mode run (which is why I'm trying to be very careful about balance even as I load up on the mods)!

And "loading up" may be an understatement: I'm running in 64-bit on Linux, so RAM isn't a problem (... he says, optimistically). I've already started by installing the majority of Landwalker's Fifth Kerpublic Space, Science, and Luxury Travel Agency massive collection of mods, and I've also added in Deadly Reentry, FAR and MechJeb, along with KSP-Interstellar, Civilian Population (love that mod!), Extraplanetary Launchpads and Infernal Robotics.

  • What information in the OP (and the comprehensive guide in the second post) is current, given that the BalanceMod is not updated for 1.x? That's my real barrier to understanding what to install--and, perhaps more importantly, what not to install. I have no idea what advice applies only to 0.90 BalanceMod games, and what remains applicable for a new career mode game. (As just one example: the career parameters of 60% Science, 70% Funding Rewards---are those tuned to BalanceMod, or SETI for 1.0?)
  • I'd like to use AutoPruner to clear up some of the clutter from my parts menu, particularly since I'm including Procedural Fairings and Procedural Parts. I've seen a few pruning scripts in the forums, but I'm not sure which to use, or if any of them are still current. Does anyone have a current pruning script I could check out?
  • Any other advice for me, pitfalls to avoid, that sort of thing?

Thanks in advance! I'm definitely looking forward to starting a new career---one with a steady progression arc and a lot of content :) (And, as I play, I'm happy to report any issues I encounter, if that's the kind of thing you're interested in while putting together the Intermediate/Advanced packs)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I use the Auto-Pruner with the 1.04 Contracts and Tech Tree modules (alongside Procedural Parts and other mods), is that likely to be a bad idea?

P.S. Apologies if this gets asked constantly, but is there any likelihood of the main SETI mod being updated for 1.0.4 any time soon? Really miss this mod :c

Edited by baldamundo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry all, was on (very) short notice non-internet holidays.

Here is a screenshot you asked for.

http://i.imgur.com/U3SR0Je.png

I do not know where that issue comes from, I m very sorry. If you did not solve it by now with selectively rebuilding and testing your game data folder, you could try real chutes. Other than that, I simply do not know how to solve it.

I apologize for asking a question that's been asked many times before, but I'm still very confused as to what mods are appropriate to install in addition to those included in the Basic SETI pack linked in the OP.

I love that a lot of balancing has been done around the tech tree, and I don't want to ruin the progression arc by including the wrong mods---I abandoned my last career playthrough because a few of my mods weren't balanced with the rest (e.g. KW Rocketry), and some critical components for unmanned missions were locked behind the first (expensive!) R&D building upgrade. That being said, the Basic SETI pack isn't going to be enough to sustain me: I'm planning for this to be an extended career mode run (which is why I'm trying to be very careful about balance even as I load up on the mods)!

And "loading up" may be an understatement: I'm running in 64-bit on Linux, so RAM isn't a problem (... he says, optimistically). I've already started by installing the majority of Landwalker's Fifth Kerpublic Space, Science, and Luxury Travel Agency massive collection of mods, and I've also added in Deadly Reentry, FAR and MechJeb, along with KSP-Interstellar, Civilian Population (love that mod!), Extraplanetary Launchpads and Infernal Robotics.

  • What information in the OP (and the comprehensive guide in the second post) is current, given that the BalanceMod is not updated for 1.x? That's my real barrier to understanding what to install--and, perhaps more importantly, what not to install. I have no idea what advice applies only to 0.90 BalanceMod games, and what remains applicable for a new career mode game. (As just one example: the career parameters of 60% Science, 70% Funding Rewards---are those tuned to BalanceMod, or SETI for 1.0?)
  • I'd like to use AutoPruner to clear up some of the clutter from my parts menu, particularly since I'm including Procedural Fairings and Procedural Parts. I've seen a few pruning scripts in the forums, but I'm not sure which to use, or if any of them are still current. Does anyone have a current pruning script I could check out?
  • Any other advice for me, pitfalls to avoid, that sort of thing?

Thanks in advance! I'm definitely looking forward to starting a new career---one with a steady progression arc and a lot of content :) (And, as I play, I'm happy to report any issues I encounter, if that's the kind of thing you're interested in while putting together the Intermediate/Advanced packs)

The whole second post is for the ksp 0.90 seti balance mod.

The first post is for KSP 1.0.4, there is only the second tech tree screenshot for SETIctt 0.9.1 and the changelog on kerbalstuff since then. Of course you have to make sure to not install 2 life support mods.

KW rocketry is not supported at the moment, only the mods in the first post screenshot + the post SETIctt 0.9.1 additions.

But current 1.0.4 career mode is roleplaying anyway, given the horrible stock balance (eg unlock costs of multi couplers, break tolerance and so on).

I do not know about current pruning files, but if you use B9Procedural and do not have ram issues, you can simply not research the 2 special nodes containing wings and tac life support parts (if you use tac life support). Those are special clutter avoidance nodes costing 1 science point and are attached to the node which features the procedural versions.

If I use the Auto-Pruner with the 1.04 Contracts and Tech Tree modules (alongside Procedural Parts and other mods), is that likely to be a bad idea?

P.S. Apologies if this gets asked constantly, but is there any likelihood of the main SETI mod being updated for 1.0.4 any time soon? Really miss this mod :c

I m not up to date on pruner lists, sorry.

The SETI BalanceMod will certainly not be updated to a 1.0.x version.

For 1.1.x, it is planned to reboot the balance mod in a (much) smaller form and then take it from there, provided squad does not mess up 1.1 as they did with the many unmotivated disimprovements in 1.0...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I plan to do the same for the current Mk1 cockpit, but only after 1.1 hits. I m not sure how to balance that one. Compared to the inline one, I guess no liquid fuel but rather functional air intakes? Not sure about the rest.

I also miss the old SweptWings, the current ones bring the CoL too far backwards. Will take a look at them as well.

Hm, I ll try to reproduce. I hope it is just one of the KAX exceptions (do you use KAX for the prop?). Thank you for the notice!

In other news, SETIcontracts dev is on hold, another very promising opportunity came up...

Yes, I do use KAX and B9 wings. But the same plane, but with a Mk1 Inline currently, worked fine. Sorry for the late reply.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yemo, please tell me you have not given up on this great mod!
He hasn't. he's just been really busy IRL.

Yep,

very busy with real life at the moment.

I m also thinking about how to reboot the mod for 1.1 (provided squad does not mess 1.1 up as much as they did with 1.0).

Current plans for the major SETI mods for KSP 1.1:

SETIcontracts

It becomes a secondary mod, like the greenhouse and initial contracts at the moment. May recieve a minor update, but will self-deactivate if the new recommended contract pack is detected (which is much more advanced and adaptable and not done by me).

This allows me to concentrate on SETIctt and hopefully the SETI BalanceMod.

SETIctt

Becomes a pure tech tree mod, whitout any rebalances/messing around except for the stock probe cores (mainly concerning SAS) to fit into the unmanned first progression. SETIctt will be my initial focus after ksp 1.1 is released. I will not care about totally imbalanced parts (looking at you, UniversalStorage) when deciding about mod support and just accept that stock KSP is so imbalanced that it is pure roleplay anyway. I m tired of fighting windmills.

I m unsure about the CTT-SETIctt relationship. At the moment, SETIctt changes a lot of stuff that is already changed by CTT, resulting in a lot of double entries. I m also not quite happy with the tech tree itself. Therefore I m considering including a streamlined CTT fork (consisting only of the CTT nodes but not of the positional changes to the stock tech tree) into the SETIctt download and dropping the dependency on the main CTT.

Then I would rewrite the SETIctt, keeping the general layout but making a lot of smaller changes and cleaning up the positional inconsistencies from stock (and CTT).

These are planned to be "under the hood" changes, with little to no impact on part mod support. But it would simplify the current mess of multiple mm statements working on the same node and give more freedom by reducing dependency for the future.

SETI BalanceMod

After cleaning up and streamlining the SETIctt and a more detailed check of KSP 1.1, a reboot of the SETI BalanceMod is planned, based upon the balancing changes of the current SETIctt for KSP 1.0.4. Usage of Github is planned for the reboot.

For the time between the 1.1 pure tech tree SETIctt reboot and the SETI BalanceMod reboot, I ll probably make the 1.0.4 SETIctt rebalances available as a separate mediafire download, without much support. For those who neither want to wait, nor are willing to tolerate the stock KSP "balance" in the meantime.

Again, please note that those plans depend upon squad not messing up ksp 1.1 as they did with ksp 1.0. If the devs are determined to keep/make this game imbalanced, I m not inclined to fight them during my free time...

Edited by Yemo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SETIcontracts

It becomes a secondary mod, like the greenhouse and initial contracts at the moment. May recieve a minor update, but will self-deactivate if the new recommended contract pack is detected (which is much more advanced and adaptable and not done by me).

Ooohhh. Is there a thread with info on this somewhere?

SETI BalanceMod

After cleaning up and streamlining the SETIctt and a more detailed check of KSP 1.1, a reboot of the SETI BalanceMod is planned, based upon the balancing changes of the current SETIctt for KSP 1.0.4. Usage of Github is planned for the reboot.

For the time between the 1.1 pure tech tree SETIctt reboot and the SETI BalanceMod reboot, I ll probably make the 1.0.4 SETIctt rebalances available as a separate mediafire download, without much support. For those who neither want to wait, nor are willing to tolerate the stock KSP "balance" in the meantime.

Really excited for this :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ooohhh. Is there a thread with info on this somewhere?

As far as I know, not yet. And anyhow it is not for me to give out any more information in that regard, except that it is the reason why SETIcontracts is not developed any more (aside from a minor maintenance update, like the SETIgreenhouse recieved).

Really excited for this :D

Dont get your hopes up too much, the even more streamlined SETIctt is the priority when 1.1 is released and squad may very well mess up 1.1 again...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think I am the only one, but I plan to be a major contributor as much as I can at least to get the balance mod back to the greatness it was, so don't think you'll go it alone. Just waiting for the opportunity i.e. GitHub. So here is hoping 1.1 is at least not worse ;). Honestly though if you give up I think I will at least have to come up with something to preserve the spirt of SETI barring anymore major post release patches. I mean I still use most of the old configs from it hacked and patched for 1.04 works ok, but not what it once was.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't think I am the only one, but I plan to be a major contributor as much as I can at least to get the balance mod back to the greatness it was, so don't think you'll go it alone. Just waiting for the opportunity i.e. GitHub. So here is hoping 1.1 is at least not worse ;). Honestly though if you give up I think I will at least have to come up with something to preserve the spirt of SETI barring anymore major post release patches. I mean I still use most of the old configs from it hacked and patched for 1.04 works ok, but not what it once was.

Do you fancy sharing? :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello! I have a different question. Recently i started playing KSP. I'v watched a lot of (awesome) movies on Scotts' youtube channel...

But with SETI ctt and all other balancing mods + FAR i am stuck a little bit... I am unable to get to orbit, unable to construct plane that will work... I have unlocked first 3 columns of science (including starting column) by driving my turbo-jet-engine-with-seat rover on Kerbal surface and doing some science...

Any tips where i can find some info how to design a plane (for all that "fly low" science, some missions etc)? And how the heck i can get to orbit? I can get ~3000 dV with my puny 30-parts rocket... Looks like it is not enough.

Of course playing career mode, version 1.0.4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't think I am the only one, but I plan to be a major contributor as much as I can at least to get the balance mod back to the greatness it was, so don't think you'll go it alone. Just waiting for the opportunity i.e. GitHub. So here is hoping 1.1 is at least not worse ;). Honestly though if you give up I think I will at least have to come up with something to preserve the spirt of SETI barring anymore major post release patches. I mean I still use most of the old configs from it hacked and patched for 1.04 works ok, but not what it once was.

Did not forget that, and it will depend a lot on contributions. I m really looking forward to it myself, not only the return of the BalanceMod, but also resuming the development we had back in 0.90 with all the contributions from you, LordAurelius and SwGustav.

I ll definately do the github upload in the weeks after 1.1 comes out, only the exact date depends on the many factors like state of the game in ksp 1.1, SETIctt basis and my rl schedule.

Do you fancy sharing? :D

Imho it makes sense to wait for ksp 1.1 for this, although I honestly hoped 1.1 would be released by now...

I m not too keen on public sharing of such configs, it would result in having multiple versions floating around and possibly creating support issues and change requests (for which I want to wait for 1.1, rather than having them for the soon obsolete 1.0.4).

Hello! I have a different question. Recently i started playing KSP. I'v watched a lot of (awesome) movies on Scotts' youtube channel...

But with SETI ctt and all other balancing mods + FAR i am stuck a little bit... I am unable to get to orbit, unable to construct plane that will work... I have unlocked first 3 columns of science (including starting column) by driving my turbo-jet-engine-with-seat rover on Kerbal surface and doing some science...

Any tips where i can find some info how to design a plane (for all that "fly low" science, some missions etc)? And how the heck i can get to orbit? I can get ~3000 dV with my puny 30-parts rocket... Looks like it is not enough.

Of course playing career mode, version 1.0.4

For some inspiration for planes and orbital craft, you can take a look at the second post of the SETI thread, but the craft use procedural parts.

Orbit is easy for smaller vessels (eg probes), you need about 3500dV, 4000dV on the safe side. The key is building minimalistic craft. Probe core + a few science experiments should be below 400kg payload. For simplicity (and part count), I recommend just putting a hybrid rocket booster (eg tweakscaled to 0.625m diameter) beneath that payload and then one or two solid rocket booster stages beneath that (maybe tweakscaled as well). That should be plenty to reach orbit.

I m not too familiar with the current version of FAR.

But for basic plane design, I recommend this guide by keptin: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/52080

Digging through my imgur account, I found those old craft from the 0.90 SETI-BalanceMod. They use procedural parts, but the main design elements are clearly visible, especially on the first 2 screenshots of the BasicJet.

Going through the point in the guide from keptin linked above:

High Wings, center of mass slightly below and before center of lift, center of thrust directly aft of center of mass (not below or above), engines on the wings for more placement flexibility, control surfaces are adjusted with tweakable everything mod for only half the reaction, neutral angle of incidence for simplicity, tricycle landing gear arrangement with a positive angle of attack on the runway.

The pods besides the landing gear are procedural hybrid rocket boosters for atmospheric jumps (eg 18km+ survey missions).

Basic Jet

KEUejGk.png

Basic Jet

DsWQbaN.png

Advanced Jet

DA8BFY4.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Imho it makes sense to wait for ksp 1.1 for this, although I honestly hoped 1.1 would be released by now...

I m not too keen on public sharing of such configs, it would result in having multiple versions floating around and possibly creating support issues and change requests (for which I want to wait for 1.1, rather than having them for the soon obsolete 1.0.4).

Ahhh, that's fair enough

Orbit is easy for smaller vessels (eg probes), you need about 3500dV, 4000dV on the safe side. The key is building minimalistic craft.

This really makes a huge difference, btw! If you pare it down massively to just the minimum of what you need (rather than e.g. trying to stick loads of different science experiment on a single probe) it cuts the weight down massively, and when your probe's super light, getting orbital becomes a hell of a lot easier.

EDIT: BTW, am I right in remembering that SETI balance used to have a couple of handy procedural items like a procedural hydrogen fuel cell? Any chance of that coming back to ctt before 1.1?

And on that note, any chance the procedural probe core could be updated to have some battery storage scaling to its volume? Atm different sized probe cores all seem to be functionally identical, as far as I can tell?

Edited by baldamundo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This really makes a huge difference, btw! If you pare it down massively to just the minimum of what you need (rather than e.g. trying to stick loads of different science experiment on a single probe) it cuts the weight down massively, and when your probe's super light, getting orbital becomes a hell of a lot easier.

Yep, I try to give incentives for "realistic" rockets, eg with the late fuel lines. I hope the CustomBarnKit is updated in 1.1, so that building upgrade levels can be added and modified to be more fitting.

EDIT: BTW, am I right in remembering that SETI balance used to have a couple of handy procedural items like a procedural hydrogen fuel cell? Any chance of that coming back to ctt before 1.1?

And on that note, any chance the procedural probe core could be updated to have some battery storage scaling to its volume? Atm different sized probe cores all seem to be functionally identical, as far as I can tell?

Unfortunately there is no clear communication about the changes in 1.1, so given the history of unmotivated disimprovements, there is a good chance that I have to revisit stuff I do now, which is not time efficient. Then I d rather wait for 1.1 and deal with that stuff only once (until the next round of unmotivated disimprovements).

Thus it does not really make sense for me to update SETIctt for 1.0.5, since I have no idea what is changed with regards to the tech tree in 1.1 anyway. Especially considering that I had to rewrite the whole tech tree from 0.90 to 1.0.x.

edit: Of course that depends on the 1.0.5 changes. If it is just about 2 new stock jet engines or so, that is of course doable. But I will not care for more time consuming adjustments.

Procedural probe cores should, like procedural nose cones, have additional tank type options. For the probe cores those should be structural and battery. However while the battery storage scales with mass, it provides much less battery capacity per volume than the dedicated procedural battery.

Edited by Yemo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Procedural probe cores should, like procedural nose cones, have additional tank type options. For the probe cores those should be structural and battery. However while the battery storage scales with mass, it provides much less battery capacity per volume than the dedicated procedural battery.

Derp. I am an unobservant idiot. oops :blush:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Derp. I am an unobservant idiot. oops :blush:

No worries, many of the minor changes are not expected and not documented so far. Not ideal. I started with the documentation for the SETI-BalanceMod (visible in the second post in this thread), but after that was gutted, I just didnt pick it up again.

I thought about the 1.0.5 situation again, and maybe this is an opportunity in the spirit of 1.0.x = beta despite the version number.

How about making the SETIctt-SETIbalance break in 1.0.5? I would just separate the current SETIctt into a clean tech tree mod and the rest is distributed as the "BalanceMod". I would have to do the separation anyway in 1.1, so it is not really extra work, but at least it would be already finished.

The advantage for players would be, that one would already work without the other (more or less) in 1.0.5. On the other side, people will have to install the BalanceMod to keep their existing 1.0.4 careers working and not everyone is reading the forums when updating mods.

To keep that in check, I could make the balance mod a dependency for SETIctt in ckan, at least for 1.0.5, for auto-updaters.

Since I had some free time during the last 2 hours and was thinking about modularity anyway, I threw together a quick spin-off mod from SETIctt, for those who really just want an unmanned start and for some reason prefer the stock "balance" aside from the manned start. There have been quite a few requests in this regard...

Something like the InitialContracts spin-off from SETIcontracts.

Download: Unmanned before Manned 0.9.0 (for KSP 1.0.4)

This is a spin-off from the SETI-CommunityTechTree (thus not necessary if you have SETIctt installed), making probes available before manned pods. Especially helpful if you enjoy the many stock imbalances but just want to start unmanned.

Compatible with the stock tech tree as well as the CommunityTechTree.

Edited by Yemo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Was surprised by the latest changes that I have just noticed in SETI. Was going yet another install of ksp. With the RAM limit picking only great mods is a pain. I also do totally clean installs to keep a long mod list in check. Noticed a few changes to SETI. Liked the moving of hybrid boosters up the tree. Whilst procedural wings come down one node. This is a great idea Yemo. Makes for a better start. Thanks for that improvement.

I thought about the 1.0.5 situation again, and maybe this is an opportunity in the spirit of 1.0.x = beta despite the version number.

How about making the SETIctt-SETIbalance break in 1.0.5? I would just separate the current SETIctt into a clean tech tree mod and the rest is distributed as the "BalanceMod". I would have to do the separation anyway in 1.1, so it is not really extra work, but at least it would be already finished.

The advantage for players would be, that one would already work without the other (more or less) in 1.0.5. On the other side, people will have to install the BalanceMod to keep their existing 1.0.4 careers working and not everyone is reading the forums when updating mods.

To keep that in check, I could make the balance mod a dependency for SETIctt in ckan, at least for 1.0.5, for auto-updaters.

Since I had some free time during the last 2 hours and was thinking about modularity anyway, I threw together a quick spin-off mod from SETIctt, for those who really just want an unmanned start and for some reason prefer the stock "balance" aside from the manned start. There have been quite a few requests in this regard...

Something like the InitialContracts spin-off from SETIcontracts.

An update to 1.0.5 sounds promising. However I remember an in depth discussion over the CKAN github about keeping up with version numbering. When ferram dropped in this observation.

Something worth noting here is that minor / major / patch / whatever versioning numbers for KSP version actually have little, if any, meaning behind them, and all minor version increments are not created equal. For example, 1.0.1 -> 1.0.2 and 1.0.3 -> 1.0.4 resulted in no API changes and nothing breaking; 1.0.0 -> 1.0.1 added new API options that could be required and 1.0.2 -> 1.0.3 included changes to the heating system and its API that could break some mods as if it were a major version release. There is also always the risk of something marketing-related along the lines of 0.23.0 -> 0.23.5 again, which was a major version increment in all but the actual version change.

So that made me wonder if 1.0.5 is going to be a major update for SETI. Now I have to admit right here that I am not a programmer. So could be barking up the wrong tree here. There is however a couple of big things planned that could affect the future of SETI. One is a requirement to adopt the Antenna Diversity which might be broken from the start. Let alone not compatible with SETI / Remote tech. The biggest change however is in the Contextual Contracts. That will change the way contracts appear. Essentially giving a progression curve in the stock game similar to SETI contracts. I am worried that is going to break one of the most important mods. Nightingale's Contract Configurator and of course SETI contracts.

I could be wrong and often am in predicting where KSP is going. However right now I would rather wait it out and stick with playing at 1.0.4 whilst the mod community has a good look at the new updates.

Edited by nobodyhasthis

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Was surprised by the latest changes that I have just noticed in SETI. Was going yet another install of ksp. With the RAM limit picking only great mods is a pain. I also do totally clean installs to keep a long mod list in check. Noticed a few changes to SETI. Liked the moving of hybrid boosters up the tree. Whilst procedural wings come down one node. This is a great idea Yemo. Makes for a better start. Thanks for that improvement.

An update to 1.0.5 sounds promising. However I remember an in depth discussion over the CKAN github about keeping up with version numbering. When ferram dropped in this observation.

So that made me wonder if 1.0.5 is going to be a major update for SETI. Now I have to admit right here that I am not a programmer. So could be barking up the wrong tree here. There is however a couple of big things planned that could affect the future of SETI. One is a requirement to adopt the Antenna Diversity which might be broken from the start. Let alone not compatible with SETI / Remote tech. The biggest change however is in the Contextual Contracts. That will change the way contracts appear. Essentially giving a progression curve in the stock game similar to SETI contracts. I am worried that is going to break one of the most important mods. Nightingale's Contract Configurator and of course SETI contracts.

I could be wrong and often am in predicting where KSP is going. However right now I would rather wait it out and stick with playing at 1.0.4 whilst the mod community has a good look at the new updates.

Thank you!

Regarding 1.0.5, it depends on the actual implementation. In 0.90 you usually had the choice between stock without a certain feature and a really good mod introducing such a feature. Eg aerodynamics, reentry heat, communication ranges/network, resource extraction.

Then they decided that they wanted those features in stock.

When they decided to hire the modder to implement their features, it went well (eg resource extraction).

When they did not do so, it was bad. 1.0.x aero is a disimprovement over 0.90 stock (less casual) and over FAR/NEAR.

The heating system is a disaster, adding next to nothing to the gameplay except for bugs and mod issues. Thus inferior to the casual 0.90 stock and certainly inferior to Deadly Reentry.

Now they do the same for communications, having the horrible idea of requiring com connection for probe control without the tools to work around it (eg remote tech flight computer). And without any restriction to kerbal based exploration (eg life support) to balance the unmanned-vs-manned aspect.

So it depends on what they actually do for 1.0.5.

If it is again one of those patches requiring lots of remodding for unmotivated gameplay disimprovements, I will just ignore it and wait for 1.1.

Same goes for the contracts. You ll notice that many mods are not even 1.0.4 compatible without community fixes, so it does not make much sense for me to work on 1.0.5 when mods are not supporting it anyway...

Imho givent he recent history of squad dev (feature list extension, visuals and console releases over everything else) the most likely result will be, that I ll split the current SETIctt into the pure tech tree and rebalance mods, then do some quick and dirty mod support patches for the tech tree part and thats it. Without balance mod development and very little support. From my perspective, fully modded KSP has disimproved from 0.90 and I m just not very interested in stock KSP. But as I said above, if they do something as bad as 1.0 again, I ll just ignore 1.0.5 completely.

The last 1.0.4 update, hopefully not the last before KSP 1.1...:

SETI CommunityTechTree v0.9.3 (for KSP 1.0.4)

SETI-CTT Mod Support

  • USI MKS Lite

Other

  • Minor stuff in the background

Edited by Yemo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just wanted to check, does SETI CTT change which MechJeb modules are unlocked together, or is there some other reason the maneuver planner didn't unlock with the proper MechJeb item in the tech tree?

Edit: Oh, nevermind. I hadn't upgraded my tracking station yet. Makes sense that I'd have to have the ability to plan maneuvers before I can use the maneuver planner.

Edited by SaintWacko

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The biggest change however is in the Contextual Contracts. That will change the way contracts appear. Essentially giving a progression curve in the stock game similar to SETI contracts. I am worried that is going to break one of the most important mods. Nightingale's Contract Configurator and of course SETI contracts.

Don't quote me on this until 1.0.5 hits the shelves, but I don't imagine that contextual contracts will have too big an impact on Contract Configurator. And even if they do, I should be able to make changes to Contract Configurator so that the contract packs aren't affected. Of course, I can't guarantee this, as there were a couple changes in 1.0 that I needed to just drop support for some lesser used features of Contract Configurator that used to use stuff that had changed significantly in stock. But if something shows up that breaks a feature of Contract Configurator that is widely used, I'll just rewrite it so there's no perceived difference to the contract pack authors (and users).

So as long as I'm around, Contract Configurator should be able to insulate contract packs from a lot of the contract changes in stock. I can't really speak for all the other areas though. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.