Spaceception

If the thrusters can use asymmetric thrust and/or gimbal, can they be used to propel Starship to an upright position? Since this isn't like a solid LAS? Then use the thrusters to land, with backup parachutes (like they originally intended for Dragon 2) in nominal situations.

I wonder if they'll build a new crew variant with no usable payload capacity (beyond personal stuff), but the ability to send up lots of people. This version will have launch abort, and can send people around the world, or to LEO, where they can transfer crew to multiple ships once the regular Starship's have been refueled. It can use the same bottom half Starship config, but the payload will be traded in for a detachable upper section (using the methalox thrusters they have for Lunaship?) I think the biggest questions for this would be, what will the heatshield be like? And how will it affect landing (would it still be able to use the header tank? I imagine so, but I'm not sure)?

@RCgothic Ninja'd But they're testing soon! Looking forward to seeing the forward flaps installed on the nosecone soon.

SN8 is getting fins SN1 of Superheavy spotted! Wonder if we'll get some news regarding Raptor before the end of the month. SN50 should be around the corner.

Yep. That, and it would fuel unrealistic portrayals of spaceflight and Astroanuts even more. Aren't those criticisms with Neflix's current and recent space shows? Away, and another life?

Hopefully the people running the show get that memo, especially since they're working with NASA too

My initial reaction wasn't, well, positive, but I have to say (cautiously) it could turn out well. If they can get people who are genuine about spaceflight, and don't turn to drama for the sake of it to pad runtime, it could turn into a really interesting show to let people in on how hard it is to be an Astronaut, and how cool spaceflight can be.

Funnily enough, I was able to do exactly that yesterday. I'm a few chapters in now.

You know, I realized after I saw that trailer that I probably had the chance to get Dune at the bookstore just the other day. It wasn't on my mind then, but it is now.

What kind of payload to orbit would that allow? And why would they want it? Their SRB config can match or exceed the thrust of a 3 core Vulcan. Is there another advantage I'm missing? EDIT: Is it the longer burn times compared to the SRBs? And they mentioned ACES, that's interesting.

Do any of you think that the October presentation will lay out some expected milestones for Superheavy, and further ones for Starship? I've had some ideas lately, and they're going off on what we're seeing now with Starship testing, where they do low-altitude hops with min. engines (Starshopper, SN5, SN6), mid-altitude hops with the core engines (SN8? I heard there was something like a NOTAM which would imply a hop of several kilometers first, is that right?), and high-altitude hops that will prove out the landing profile (SN8? SN9+). We could also see have a series of dress rehearsal flights while Superheavy is testing, with the full heatshield, mass sims (at the least) for VacRap, and upgraded hardware in the flaps, legs, etc. So based on that, we know Superheavy is also going for a low altitude hop with min. engines for the first prototype. Afterward, they could go for a mid-altitude hop with the second prototype using the core cluster of 8 engines, so they can test that part of the thrust dome in-flight. And then a high-altitude hop, with at least several engines on the outer ring so they can get in-flight expectations on some of the stresses. This could possibly a sub-scale flight that goes through Max-Q (with a nosecone at least), heads downrange, shuts off its engines, and performs a boostback burn before landing on the pad. After that, BP4 of Superheavy could be the earliest expected booster to perform an orbital flight next year, assuming no catastrophic failure like SN1 or 4. I think any failure will come from the flights or landing though. They seem to be getting a good handle on the tanks since SN4, and Superheavy uses the same ones, albeit stretched and slightly thicker.

That'll be awesome to see for the 20 km hop.

Fair enough, I can't watch it for hours either though. I just turn on the livestream once in a while to see if anything is happening. But I think it's also the front row seat aspect to it. When we see launch vehicles in progress, it's usually just some pictures of mostly completed tanks intended for flight, maybe an engine, maybe a mostly completed vehicle, sometimes an engine test. Here, we're seeing a lot more of their process as they go along, so there's that too.

To me, at least, it's that they're in the process of crossing over just from tank testing, to more flight testing, and doing hops to prove out their early launch process. There was almost a year in-between Starhopper and SN5, but there was less than a month between SN5 and SN6. So I guess it's the promise for an increasing amount of fight testing that's exciting. And either way, it's better than watching tanks just frost up

Could SN5 take another leap this month, followed by SN8?

As far as we know, yes. It's contracted for Cargo delivery, and until NASA accepts Starship for Gateway operations, D-XL will be the intended vehicle. If they get the next contract for their Lunar variant, that would point to a higher confidence in Starship from NASA, and D-XL may have a short lifespan.

I've asked this on the NSF forums, but with this tweet about the 28 Raptors And past renders of a 7 engine core, that leaves one engine out. But Elon said recently that they would be testing a SH with 2 engines. So my thoughts are, could SH now have 2 central engines? But I also saw that someone suggested just 8 engines without a central engine.

Isn't the core engine section made up of 7 engines? They showed that at one point. That would be a good first test which uses more Raptors than Starship, but not risking too many. If they want Superheavy to be ready by mid-late October (I don't think the presentation will be early October if they're aiming to have some milestones completed), we should see the first SN1 ring sections coming out within the next week or so, right? Even if they're unable to hop, if they could pull off a successful cryo test, mounted Raptors, and maybe a static fire, that would be pretty good, and show it's not just a prop to the general public. Does anyone think they could have Starship stacked on Superheavy? That would be a sight to see. But they would need a new crane for it, right? I don't think the current ones can reach high enough.

I may not have been clear enough. I do agree, Earth will be too big in population, resources, and energy not to have widescale interconnectedness, but I think autarky should be a soft goal for our space settlements, at least our first ones. There are a handful of nations that could achieve this already, the US included, despite having lots of international trade. And I think space settlements should be included in that group. The first part will be to just stop relying on basic imports from Earth, like food, water, and shelter. Then eventually things like energy, and essential medicines. Finally, working to make sure there's a large enough population to maintain and grow their infrastructure and nation so it doesn't break down at the first long gap in resupply. My point is that settlements on a planet can be modular. If they need more space, they can build new habitats as needed, and get them up and running. They don't have to build an entire city or large town for a few hundred people, or the shell of one. So the upfront time and cost isn't as sharp. I don't know of any concept to expand a rotating habitat as needed (since they'd probably need to stop the drum, which could become a problem), but if you know of any, I'd be interested to read about them. But I can see strings of small habitats being built as lunar settlements are developed, which can hold hundreds or thousands of people each. How much would it take to build one of those, vs an equivalent planetary base? There needs to be a structure which can rotate stably without tearing itself apart, surrounded with radiation shielding, with internal levels where people can live. Only then can they pressurize and spin up. But now that I think about it, this could start out as a 0-g workshop, as a temporary bay for work to protect probes, and service satellites from potential debris. It can also prevent tools from being lost. Then once its finished, the bay is moved out, and the front is built over so it can be spun up.

Posted on NSF I knew this already, but it's pretty cool how they started off with Hydrolox. https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=47506.msg2121675#msg2121675

Those Starlink sats have to be really helping livestream coverage. I don't think we've ever seen consistent landing feeds on several launches back to back before. I thought SN6 would get SN30+ Raptors. I guess SN8 will get those. I wonder if the September presentation for Starship will be postponed. A lot of milestones are coming up within the next couple months or so: SN6 and possibly more 5 hops, Raptor SN50, SN8 belly flop attempt, SN9 stacking, High bay completion, and the start of Superheavy construction. I think it'd be really cool if we saw a Superheavy prototype and SN8 (if it survives) or 9 standing together for the presentation. That would go a long way if they talk about orbital attempts in 2021.

This isn't about Ceres colonization, but it is about our first mission there http://rascal.nianet.org/themes/ which talks about a mission in the 2040s. I don't know if it'll happen (probably not, the timeline is pretty far out), but it's basically an envisioning if Artemis continues, and they're able to move onto Mars, Venus, and Ceres. As for colonization itself, I think the Moon and Mars will be first. The Moon is close, and has the resources for a decent settlement to support Cislunar activities, likely with supplements from Earth (Carbon and Nitrogen come to mind). Mars, afaik, has the resources for an industrial city-state (and eventually nation). My personal thoughts when it comes to building habitats, is that since those can be many tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of tonnes in mass on the smaller end (If you want habitats that can hold hundreds to thousands of people), that is both a lot of upfront investment in resources before they can even settle in, and a lot of infrastructure that has to be developed and brought to that location to assemble those resources. Once you have the habitat, you also need regular cargo delivery since there's no immediate resources to maintain the station and do useful work as if you were on a planet. So depot docks, and manufacturing bays will be needed. Both will be expensive to wholly maintain from Earth. Especially if habitats are around the Moon for example, because if Lunarians can't stay on the surface, they will need to live in habitats some of/most of the time. Having direct access to the Moon may be preferred if resources can largely come from there. A Lunar or Mars settlement will be important to allow for wide-scale manufacturing in space for the long-term. Once you're no longer building everything on Earth, and your launches are largely just people and associated cargo, you likely have a sufficient industrial base. So Habs can begin to go under construction around this time.

A 3 week window starting this week! Same altitude limit as SN5

It even looks like there's a tent above them

Launch pad so far. Wonder where it'll be in another week.