Numberyellow

Right. i guess what im not understanding, is what version will behave? I mean, i don't mind waiting for a proper 1.3.1 release....i've been waiting a year and a half, what's a few more days? lol

Hey monkey dude.. Yeah, i saw there were 2 beta builds, aimed at 1.3.1, but based on the thread, they didn't appear to be terribly popular. wait, what?

So i've got everything together for my 1.3.1 install....except: AoA Technologies - Waiting on confirmation that the latest version will work with 1.3.1. (I REALLY hope it does, because the latest version fixes the JSIVariableAnimator error, which i found really annoying) KAX - No 1.3.1 version, from any of the mod's maintainers. (I posted in the thread, Lisias)

Any chance on a 1.3.1 version? I saw SpannerMonkey had released 2 beta builds for 1.3.1, but as i'm reading, they didn't work out so well..

Not. Going. To Happen. Perhaps once i start showcasing my work, it will become clear, why just abandoning everything, and trying to re-create it in another version is utterly impossible. Just the THOUGHT of making the attempt, is enough to make me want to walk away for good. It's like torching a painting, and telling the artist he has to recreate it from scratch....every inspired creative decision, every brush stroke, every subtle color variation... It is literally impossible, and the attempt would be a massively frustrating, and ultimately fruitless, waste of time. I don't like online multiplayer games...why? because generally speaking, you do the same thing over and over, and nothing is ever achieved..You never "win", No story is being told...you've not been enriched, or mentally engaged in any meaningful way...You're literally throwing away your time.....and one's time is far too precious to be wasted on identically repetitive endeavors. "Time is the coin of your life. It is the only coin you have, and only you can determine how it will be spent. Be careful lest you let other people spend it for you." - Carl Sandburg No, the things i've created, represent literally THOUSANDS of hours of actual effort....not just blowing stuff up, or screwing around. I'm talking about creation...expression of imagination, and the near-limitless potential for creation that this wonderful game provides us with.. I can't just write it all off. I do look forward to being able to create more in the future...but for now, i must salvage what i already have.. I looked into CKAN.. I'm a big fan of mod managers....i swore by the Nexus Mod Manager (NMM), back in my days of playing modded Fallout 3.....it was an invaluable tool, especially when running a heavily modded install. CKAN lacks the same functionality of NMM, and is thus, less useful.

@K.Yeon Hasn't logged in here since september of 2017, and i can find no evidence that he's still maintaining OPT. @JadeOfMaar Came up with the OPT Reconfig mod, to, i guess make OPT work with newer KSP. I can attest to the fact that Base OPT, with Reconfig, does work on 1.5.1, and 1.6.0. I'm guessing i installed it correctly.. But yeah...all this talk of OPT, and OPT legacy, and all that...it's very confusing. I'm familiar with the WildBlue Industries family of mods.. in my 1.2.2 work, The Heisenberg airship parts pack was in use, and i was going to start experimenting with some of the rover packs...but then i walked away, because of the whole performance thing. Im in the process of tracking down all the mods...but it's very tedious, time consuming, and annoying. I do hope this works.

Hey, just out of curiosity, will the latest version (1.4.1) work with KSP 1.3.1?

Oh, so you're saying i could use that, to track down mod versions.. that could work, i suppose. Though, i'd rather just track the mods down, before hand, and install them, before i fire anything up. it is a good idea though.

Wow....how did i not know about this mod before? While it looks useful, and i can certainly think of a few scenarios where some of it's functionality will come in VERY handy, i fail to see how it can help in diagnosing anything? Maybe i'm missing something? none the less, i will be incorporating this mod into my lineup on the 1.3.1 install, after i verify that all the other mods i need, are playing nicely together. Now i'm going to guess that 1.3.1 is enough like 1.2.2, where it can still understand everything in the .craft files. I wish i knew what the value was for "meshes", in a pre-1.4x craft file...because after 1.4x, as you pointed out, parts with multiple versions, switch from "mesh" to "variant", for selection in the SPH/VAB.

Here's the thing....how does one "update" crafts? I noticed when i was opening the .craft files in a text editor, that they are specifically marked as "belonging" to KSP 1.2.2. Does updating them require that i go and open, then re-save every single craft? As i said, my savegame from 1.2.2....i copied it from my working directory, and dropped it into 1.6, and it worked with no issues......so i know that can be done...it's the crafts that are the problem, but you have proposed a possible solution, so all i can do, is give that a try, and see what happens. In the meantime, 1.3.1 may be a viable alternative for now. To that end, i will begin work on building a 1.3.1 test install... it's going to take a while, because i've done this same process so many times over the last week, that i am sick of doing it.

Well, i mean, yeah...they are improvements, and minimum payments toward technical debt....but they are still representative of major, and fundamental functional changes to the core of the game, that impact the way that it works.....which breaks stuff...bigly.. Are we talking Original flavor Win95, or Win95B? Because original flavor, whilst better than 3.1x, was kinda crap, until they fixed it.. That being said: Win95, and Android 1.0 were both revolutionary in their own ways, and laid the groundwork for what we have today...and in my opinion, KSP was revolutionary, because it did what it did, better than anything else like it. I've often described KSP (preferably with mods) as being "the greatest virtual lego set that's ever existed". If you can imagine it, there's a very good chance you can build it.. That's what i love about KSP......the limitless expression of imagination. And it's easily accessible...the learning curve is not steep, anyone can get into this game. I love that they made KSP so powerful, and so complex, yet so easy to learn.. That's a hell of an achievement, all on it's own. I'm sure it's better...which is why i really want to use it.. But if i can't bring my save, and crafts with me, then there's no point...i'm not willing to start over, and i absolutely cannot reproduce any of the things i'd be leaving behind. There's no point in getting attached to it, if it can't be my daily driver... I've actually read through, and posted to the thread you linked to....if 1.3.1. performs better than 1.2.2, and won't break anything, i may migrate all my stuff to that version. Then i can get back to building cool stuff, while i mess around with getting 1.6x right, on the side. I'm a realist....i can be optimistic, and positive, but when it comes down to it, i see things as they are, not how i wish they were... which is why sometimes i get myself into trouble, because i sometimes forget to filter what i say, and over sensitivity leads to offense, and, well, yeah.... I'm not familiar with Mad Max (never interested me)...i'm vaguely familiar with "lord of the flies"...i think enough to see where you're going with this.. Anywho, i'm talking about things like multiple mods sharing the same dependencies, and bundled mods, but they don't always bundle the same versions, so when you install them, the different versions of the bundled stuff ends up stepping on each other, so you end up with like a version of RPM that's like 3 versions out of date, and 9 different versions of ModuleManager...or, again, the super confusing situation with OPT, where jade uses ANOTHER mod, to maintain the first mod, but the instructions on how to use it are so confusing, i can't figure out exactly what i should be downloading, or how to properly use the thing.. Things like this REALLY make it difficult to keep current.. I agree, this enthusiast scene, built around 1.3.1, is very interesting, and warrants further investigation....perhaps they are doing something right....however, their master list of 1.3.1-compatable mods is far from complete.. but i can overlook that, because i'm smart enough to fill in the blanks myself. hunting things down, is just time-consuming, tedious, and immensely boring. Agreed. But i don't know what can be done to create this path....if such a thing is even possible. My save works just fine in 1.6....my nav sat is still in orbit, and everything else is where i parked it.. the problem is the breaking of the crafts that took me so long to create. if that could be overcome, i THINK 1.6x would be viable for everyday use, for my purposes.... On that note, i wanted to apologize....i blamed TweakScale for breaking my aircraft, before i knew that the unity upgrade in 1.4x was a literal game changer. All the testing i've done verifies that TS isn't responsible for the problem...so yeah, sorry. Yeah, an automated tool would be awesome. As i said, my savegame, surprisingly, works just fine with 1.6...and not ALL of my craft are broken....I was flying one of them, in 1.6, on my 1.2.2 save, with no issues...However, enough of my aircraft are broken, to cause me distress, because i'm not sure how to properly fix them, and i can't be sure that there aren't things wrong with ANY of them, that i can't immediately detect.. So, yes, things are less ugly than they appear....but they're still ugly enough, to keep me out. And yes....that was a terrible joke, don't ever do that again.

My main "work" install is based on 1.2.2. To address one of your questions, i'd want the "latest and greatest" version, because of the performance improvements. My rig is a bit long in the tooth....but i can't afford to upgrade anything. 1.2.2 is a resource hog, and due to some performance issues, and a huge memory leak, the game chokes if i attempt to deploy anything too big. Because of this, i've been away from KSP for like a year and a half.. I once deployed a craft with around 400 parts.. my frames dropped to 6FPS...effing 6! try making meaningful course corrections under those conditions, lol. I'd LOVE to upgrade to 1.6x, but my testing has revealed that any version after the Unity upgrade in 1.4x, breaks my inventory of aircraft in various interesting ways....I spent WAY too long building these planes, to simply abandon them, and i've done too much in my save, in the way of projects, to simply walk away....and it's not as if i could actually reproduce any of this stuff, so i'd be starting from scratch, and that's just not gonna happen. If i knew that my 1.2.2 save and crafts (and mods) would work correctly with 1.3.1, i might be willing to give it a go....because honestly, it's either that, or i just walk away from KSP again, until i can afford hardware powerful enough to "brute force" 1.2.2 into behaving itself when i deploy something big.. I miss KSP, and i miss exercising my imagination, and building really cool stuff. If i ever can get a good working "build" going, I intend to start showing off some of my work.....but i'm not gonna be doing that, so long as i'm hobbled by 1.2.2's performance deficiencies.

Thanks a lot! This confirms my suspicions.. That there were serious functional changes made to KSP between 1.2.2, and 1.4.5. This explains a LOT. Now, i have a 1.2.2 install, which is my main, where i did all my work....i also have test installs for 1.4.5, 1.5.1, and 1.6.0. So i guess i need one for 1.4.3, and i actually MUST make completely sure that all the mods i load into them are absolutely version matched. You're right, this is going to be a LOT of work....and WAY less fun than spending the equivalent amount of time and effort on building an aircraft....It's made more difficult, by: - The fact that not everyone is completely specific on their release notes, as to exactly what version of KSP the various releases of their mods are for.. or use confusing naming conventions for their releases. - Weird cases like with OPT Spaceplane, where the original author is gone, and the person maintaining it, does so by way of ANOTHER mod, to update config files on the original mod. That entire situation is VERY confusing.. - Various dependencies, with their own versions, and quirks, and confusing directions for proper usage (install order, etc). - The ease by which mods with bundled dependencies can overwrite the proper ones, if installed "out of order". - A host of other issues. It's almost enough to make me want to give up altogether, and just wash my hands of this game. It should not be this hard to get everything working. My fear is that by the time i get a usable install of the latest version, there's going to be yet ANOTHER update, that will render all the time i spent completely worthless. I mean, we now have 1.6.1, less than a month after we got 1.6.0. The very best i can hope for, is to get a stable, working install of 1.5.1. But i need the performance and memory utilization improvements that come with 1.6x, because i'm STILL running the same hardware configuration i was when i was using 1.2.2, and i absolutely cannot afford ANY hardware upgrades for the foreseeable future... I seem to be stuck in a really tough place... Do you have any suggestions, to make this whole process less painful?

OK, so let me start with some background... I was really big into this game when 1.2.2 was new. I put in over a thousand hours, without even realizing i'd done it. I was building all kinds of cool stuff, and using quite a few mods to do it. Finally, my ideas got so ambitious, that 1.2.2, combined with my hardware, were unable to handle what i was doing. Performance became so poor, that i simply had to put the game down, in the hopes that squad would one day better optimize the game, and plug the memory leaks. According to everything i've read, 1.6 does just that..better performance, and no/minimal memory leakage. So i decided it was time to come back. My mods are working with 1.6, problem is that my crafts are broken in various interesting ways.. For example: a couple of my craft use the mk2 expansion tapered tail extension.... there are 2 variants (formerly referred to as meshes) when i built the crafts in 1.2.2, the "elevated" mesh was used....when i load the craft in 1.6, it has magically changed itself to the standard mesh. Now, it's simple to just change it back to "elevated", and it's fixed...but it begs the question: "if that can magically change, then what else has changed, that i can't immediately detect?" Another example is when i load custom parts, made with UbioZur's welding, or crafts made with custom welded parts....I loaded a plane, that was using an air intake from mk2expansion....the weldment's .cfg file shows me that the intake is calling for a specific texture file, that is present in the target directory...yet, when the part loads, the texture is missing, and the part is pure white.. same deal with an engine shroud on the tail end of the part... Another custom welded part is now a jumbled mess, when loaded in 1.6 despite no changes to the .cfg file. So, i figured i would try earlier versions of the game, with version-appropriate mods, to see if these issues would come up there, as well....and they did. Testing with 1.4.5, and 1.5.1, i encountered these same issues. I'm thinking there has to be something of a functional nature, that has changed in one of the versions between 1.2.2, and 1.4.5. Is anyone aware of any changes made by squad, to base KSP, that might cause these issues, introduced between 1.2.2, and 1.4.5? If so, is there any way to make it so my crafts and welds will work properly with the newer versions? IF i can't fix this, it may mean i just can't play anymore, because i have WAY too much time, and effort, and creativity invested in what i've already built, to simply start over... i'd be completely unable to recreate everything i've already done, and it wouldn't be any fun to even try.

Got another bug. Hilariously, when you check off "display total time", it won't do it. When you go back to settings, it's unchecked itself.

OK, fair enough. Hopefully, one day, Squad will decide to incorporate this mod into the game as well...then the headache will be theirs, lol

Sounds like a lot of work. What's more work: this, or a complete rewrite, from scratch?

lol....yeah, i can see where a typo like that would be absolutely hilarious, especially given the context.. So that saying of yours " Espernear é direito do enforcado " Roughly translates to "Kicking is the right of the hanged man"? If it's wrong, i'm not surprised, lol I don't speak ANY portugese, and it took 5 translation sites to piece together THAT crude translation. But yeah, if the translation is good enough, then i get what you're saying. we're right to be upset about our saves getting nuked. This is all nice...but i feel we're straying off topic again...and i don't wish to be smote by the forum gods.. what (if anything) can be done about the problem?

A thousand times, this. I can't possibly agree any more strongly.

Yeah, see, i stopped playing KSP around a year and a half ago, because the poor general performance, and massive memory leaks were making it impossible to continue. When i heard that 1.6 fixed these issues, i became very excited, because i figured, once all the mods i use were updated, i could get back to what was my favorite hobby. They all work now....except for TweakScale, lol. I understand you're just trying to help....but you didn't have all the information, and that's my fault. sorry. EDIT: i have heard that 1.5.1 performs a bit better than 1.2.2, and is a little better with memory, and i'm entertaining the idea of trying that version out, until everything's sorted with 1.6. So that could be a reasonable compromise....But i didn't want to have to do that.

No, the breaks are because of scaled parts. if it were squad's fault, i wouldn't have said anything. And continuing on with the earlier version of KSP i was using isn't really an option due to how poorly the older version performs.

Works perfectly now. thanks a heap.

Yeah, english is obviously not your native tongue....no worries. i mostly understand you. You don't need to apologize for that. In any event, Since i'm wary whenever there's a new release, i have been putting all the latest versions of the mods that i use, along with a copy of my primary sandbox savefile into a 1.6 test environment, isolated from my most recent stable build/environment (based on KSP 1.2.2). So, while a fair few of my aircraft are broken, i have not lost those crafts forever.....and if the world starts exploding...well, i can fix that too, lol. bask in my god-like abilities I thank you for the detailed explanation. Having a programmer for a father, i understand what an absolute pain in the rear you're dealing with. Many times, i've watched the man struggle with all manner of gremlins within code, and he routinely bounces problems off me, to help him think....now, i can never really offer him practical ideas on how to fix the problems, but talking it through, helps him think. I have learned a few things along the way.. I tell you this, not to offer assistance, because i'd be utterly useless in that regard, just to hopefully, show you that i do understand what you're on about. Now then...I'm fairly sure that anyone who's been playing this game long enough, know that Squad would not have released 1.6, if there was a fatal flaw that was destroying save files, and literally blowing up the world. Those of us who have been playing for years, and use mods, know that mods are almost always the cause of such bizarre, and sometimes hilariously catastrophic program failures. This is true of most games...I remember having similar game-crashing issues when playing Fallout 3 modded. Now, i only run this test environment of mine for a few minutes at a time, just to test out new builds on mods...i doubt i've put enough time on the save file to trigger anything else. Now, i said i've been testing repair builds of mods..I'm happy to say that my list is very nearly complete. That's to say, that almost ALL of the mods i used previously, are working 100% with 1.6....except for tweakscale. Not to put pressure on you, but that one mod is now holding me up, lol. I mean, if it were just a simple matter of "well, it can't scale certain parts, due to changes made by squad", that'd be fine....but it actually ruins entire crafts now. I'm not trying to be a jerk, or anything...but might it not have been a better idea to simply say that tweakscale can't be made to work properly with 1.6 at this time, and NOT released? That is the only reservation i have with your actions....you released something that doesn't work correctly, and obliterates .craft files that may have taken the creator DAYS to build. I know your latest version destroyed aircraft that took me a combined total of approximately 500-700 hours to build....and some of them were very important to some projects i was working on. Now, as i said, i have backups of everything, and this test environment was made to be expendable, if need be. But not everyone else thinks like i do, so who knows how many people lost their stuff for good... I decided to come back to KSP now, because 1.6 fixes all the performance issues i was having.. i can still use previous versions, but i'd still be plagued by the performance problems that drove me into hiatus, in the first place. If this issue can't be resolved, i guess my hiatus will be even longer....perhaps i can come back when 1.7 comes out. That being said, if you do come up with any ideas, and you need someone to playtest new builds, by all means, ring me up...i'm more than happy to help in any way that can speed this along....not just for myself, but for the people.

Yes, lets get back on topic....I'd like a version of TweakScale, that doesn't break half of my planes..

OK, now it's retaining settings, but still not keeping time, and not generating a totaltime.dat file where i told it too, either.