White Owl

Without a doubt, the option to select wing shape by precise angle of leading and trailing edges is great. Makes it easy to put different wing pieces together so the edges line up perfectly. That said, I see you mentioned a possible text entry field alongside the sliders! Been wanting that ever since the very first iteration of the first version of Procedural Wings.

Or wings that fold up to fit inside a fairing, then deploy for reentry. Or retractable canards for better subsonic handling of a big delta wing. Or wings that rotate into a "shuttlecock" configuration for reentry. Lotsa possibilities.

Sounds fantastic! Have you tried it with FAR?

Oh thank you a thousand times! Both versions of procedural wings have long been my very favorite building tools for this game. To combine all the good qualities of both versions in one mod sounds like a dream come true.

You're right; Station Science isn't necessary at all for the idea. It was only in my head because I was looking at that mod and thinking about how to do something similar to make science better for shuttles. For a shuttle-specific science system, all you need is experiments that profit more when returned. Preferably, experiments that are large and/or delicate enough to make traditional reentry via heat shield and parachute unattractive. So yeah, you don't need any kind of fancy plugin system for that! It can be done with custom parts and science configs. A contract pack for Contract Configurator would be icing on the cake. First contract is to place the experiment somewhere for a specified length of time. Second contract is to collect the experiment and return it intact to Kerbin. That would be very cool.

I don't know about stock contracts... never use 'em myself. But Contract Configurator does exactly that, and a lot more. Come to think of it... I bet I could look at Station Science and figure out what definitions to change to get exactly what I'm looking for.

When I wrote that, I was thinking specifically of the LDEF (Long Duration Exposure Facility): Link A ten ton package of scientific experiments deployed into orbit by Challenger in 1984, then recovered by Columbia in 1990. And while thinking about the LDEF, I was also looking at the Station Science mod: Link It occurred to me that a mod combining the useful science modules of Station Science with the real-life benefits of the LDEF would be perfect for career mode space shuttles in the game. Require some 2.5m, multi-ton payloads to be returned to Kerbin for big science gains. Then it occurred to me that it's probably asking a whooole lot!

I've often thought that STS-style payload return capabilities could be made to work well in a career game, if a mod added large science experiment modules that had to be returned to Kerbin. Shuttles would make a lot of sense that way. But I suppose that may be out of the scope of this particular mod.

This all looks great so far! When it comes to shuttles, I'd much rather build 'em up from component parts, rather than use the perfect replica all-in-one mod. So this is very cool. I love the deployable radiators in the payload bay doors. Would you consider doing the same for other size payload bays, to match the stock part sizes? For people (like me) who enjoy building variants of the real thing with different proportions? As far as I know, there isn't any good shuttle-style landing gear available anywhere, since the Adjustable Landing Gear mod is dead in the water for the foreseeable future. Maybe that sounds like an interesting project? Cool looking mod.

Ooooh... shiny!

Is the information bar whatsit always present in IVA? Or can it be toggled on and off?

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you! I freaking hate the default camera behavior, and the old mod that made free mode the new default doesn't work anymore. This is perfect.

Asymmetric-lifter aficionados, shuttle-style and otherwise, praise and thank you, Sarbian! No more must we fly like clumsy savages, mashing the S key to haul the rocket into line by brute force! Gimbal trim: an elegant tool for a more civilized age.

One time I was deorbiting a small, low-tech spaceplane. I don't remember what version of the game this was, but it was before reentry heat. The purpose of the flight was mostly to test the spaceplane's handling in reentry, and figure out exactly when to burn to land at KSC. First there was the small deorbit burn, then I jettisoned the disposable propulsion module a minute or so before hitting atmosphere. A few minutes later, the plane was just starting to hit air thick enough to work with, when the discarded propulsion module caught back up and knocked one wing off. Big scary noise, parts flying all over the place, spaceplane violently tumbling and shedding even more parts... It was just a little bit startling. That was the only unintentional collision with debris I've ever seen. Since then I've made it a habit to turn slightly upon reentry, so anything that falls off the plane (intentional or not) will be on a slightly different trajectory.

Sounds great! I love simple fixes to long-time annoyances.

Your story about explaining the importance of transfer windows reminded me of similar conversations around here about how much time and money should reasonably be spent on flight simulation gear. Turns out people have different expectations of the term "reasonable."

I was thinking about contributing to the thread, but then I realized Jovus already said everything I would have. Grandiose plans + gradual progress + huge list of complex mods = it takes me a very long time to get anything done. By the time I start looking at interplanetary missions, I'm burnt out on the game and need to take a break... or I'm irritated the game still can't handle my planned vehicles/missions without lagging to a crawl and/or crashing every five minutes... or a new version drops and it's time to start over... or most often it's all of the above.

Slick! How difficult would it be to add color editing for the various markers, for those of us who like alternate navball textures?

If you're considering taking requests... In one of your mod threads, quite some time ago I asked about adding a polished bare metal texture, similar to the Atlas texture in Procedural Parts. Another option I frequently want on all sorts of spacecraft is crinkly gold mylar insulation. Back when I was building most things with PP due to RAM limits, I used those two textures on almost every rocket. I really think they would work well with your parts.

Holy carp!

I'm not aware of any way to assign the two throttle levers to two separate engine controls. It would be nice, though. I fly airplanes in KSP with a Warthog, Saitek rudder pedals, and TrackIR. It all works fairly straightforward without messing with the Thrustmaster software at all. There is one mod... that I can't find right now... to let you bind joystick buttons to the different trim commands. That one is very useful. Be aware the Warthog has no twist grip on the stick, so you'll need some other way to control yaw. KSP airplanes work with flight sim equipment a lot better than they did even a year ago, but there are still issues. In 1.1.2 you have to manually replace the TrackIR dll to get it to work. No separate throttle control for multiple engines. No differential left/right wheel brakes. Annoyingly, the yaw axis won't turn the nosewheel; you still need the keyboard to taxi. But once you decide to tolerate the issues, a quality joystick does make flying airplanes feel a whole lot better. My various experiments with controlling rockets and spacecraft with the HOTAS, however, have led me to conclude the keyboard is still the best control for launch, orbit, and reentry. Mostly because moving an analog control for any one axis causes KSP to turn the SAS function completely off for all axes until the control is centered again.

I love all these parts! SuicidalInsanity, your work always gets installed in my game alongside Nertea's and Necrobones'. Big mods, full of beautifully modeled parts, all carefully designed to work together and with stock. Love it.

I treat you, dear forum reader, to my unsolicited Pollyana-vision perfect dream scenario for the future of KSP. If things happened the way I'd like them to... Squad would sell the whole game to one of those faceless media monoliths everybody loves to hate. Like Disney, say. Felipe/HarvesteR would get enough money to never work again. He could also hire a team of experts to follow him around, thinking of new ways to be nice to him. (Thank you, Douglas Adams.) His birthday would be a worldwide holiday, traditionally celebrated with improvised, handmade fireworks. Everybody else who ever contributed to KSP development would also get enough money to never work again.* The faceless media monolith would spend a bazillion dollars on perfecting KSP, and releasing KSP-themed projects for every taste. I foresee KSP: the Even More Realistic Than Orbiter Version... KSP: Baby's First Sandbox... KSP: Story Mode... KSP: Ultimate Atmospheric Flight Sim... KSP: The Perfect MMORPG... KSP: The Frakking Themepark! KSP would become the dominant form of entertainment, worldwide. Wars would end. All former jocks would want to be pilots and astronauts. All former nerds would want to be aerospace engineers. The newly vibrant global economy would focus all humanity's effort on the goal of colonizing distant worlds. My God, it would be beautiful. *Except for MaxMaps, who would instead get punched in the face a lot.

Getting any kind of usable visibility out of that cockpit is going to be real tough, no matter where you put the eyepoint. But of course, a plausible spaceplane design most likely would have windows as small as possible; bubble canopies and reentry probably won't work in reality. So I'm sure you'll find the most workable spot.

@Bedwyr, Are you flying with precision control enabled? Default keybinding is capslock, and you know it's turned on when the control position indicators turn blue. Precision control mode fixes the default KSP stupidly awkward control scheme of instantly slamming control surfaces to full deflection, which is a very bad idea for airplanes. (And rockets, and rovers, and anything else really.) In precision control mode, the control surfaces and/or engine gimbals take a second or so to move, so tapping keyboard inputs can approximate an appropriately smooth and gentle style of piloting. Of course a joystick is best... but that's not always an option.