Wjolcz

True. Not sure if I was clear enough, but I didn't exclude the possibility of researching rocket and jet engines at the same time. You could go the jet way, the rocket way or both at the same time. It's up to you what you want to do next since there's no tech tree. The atmospheric flight branch and the rocket branch could be completely independent, which is not something you get with the stock tech tree. There should be stages of the research and major breakthroughts, but shouldn't be as limiting as the tree we have now: you go for the parts themselves not the whole nodes you don't need. EDIT: what I meant was that Juno becomes available for the research shortly after a few tiny rockets' flights. You don't have to research it. It's there ready to be buult, but you still can advance through the career using only rockets.

I agree. This could also work really nice.

I don't think that would give enough information though. The lift vectors are kind of unclear to read. It's better to fly the plane first to see how it performs at different speeds, what's the turn rate, etc.

I agree. I've also suggested this a long time ago. If it was added before the 1.1 wheel module rework there probably wouldn't be needed any rework.

I would like to have a functional wind tunnel. You put a vessel in there and you get it to kinda fly. Mybe it should be like a closed space with walls around but at the same time there would be wind blowing in the tunnel to cancel out any forward movement of the vessel, or sth like that.

I am aware that V2s were weapons of pure military usage, but after the war they were used for science. What I had in mind was the after-the-war approach of spaceflight research. And let's be honest: military research influences most of the technologies used today. Not saying that bombing the cities should be included into the game, but the fact is if it wasn't for that military money the US wouldn't go to the Moon about twenty years later. Also nobody said that you should reach the orbit first and then get the jet engines. What I had in mind was a situation when you perform a few test flights with tiny and not very powerful rockets and shortly after that get to fly jets (with Juno being the only option for the early jet propulsion, of course).

Oh, and something I just remembered: I always wanted to have a human history-like progression. The mechanic of the research mentioned in the OP would make something like this possible. Think about this: The first liquid rocket was launched in 1926 and the first turbojet-powered aircraft flew in 1939. You start with the Spark engine and the Juno engine. You first build a bunch of tiny-sized rockets and later go for the V2 rockets. Just after a few rocket flights and a better rocket engine (something that could power a plane) Juno becomes available. Would you guys like it? I think with the addition of some sort of story-telling it might be really cool and would tell a human-like history of rocketry and aerospace research programs. IMO it would be highly educational. You may argue that the science points and the tech tree give more freedom than this, but let's be honest: they don't. They are intended to do so, but don't. The way I propose it you could skip some parts you don't need and have a higher variety of parts to be researched after each step, if done right. And here's a true story: if it wasn't for KSP I wouldn't get interested in so many things I'm into now, like the history of rocketry and jet propulsion (and overall space exploration). It would be a real shame if this game didn't exploit it's full educational potential.

I really don't like the Materials Science bay, or whatever it's called. It's too big and I feel like it's in the game just to get science points. I want to perform real experiments, not grind through the tree. IMO the game would be better off without the science points and the tech tree we have now.

You can just attach the Vector radially to the tank, rotate it and put a nose cone on it. It makes it attached to the fuel tank directly, so the engines don't need fuel ducts. It's super easy if you use the rotation and offset tools.

They didn't use their own rocket and went to the Moon, not Mars. IIRC 'interplanetary' is a journey from planet A to planet B. The Moon is not a planet.

Call me starry-eyed but I actually believe they can and want to achieve something unusual. I want to see human race go places and that company actually gives me hopes and makes me believe it's possible. Elon seems to be someone who actually wants to change the world and has resources to do that.

Do people actually believe it will be crewed? I mean it's pretty obvious it won't be, but either way if they land the pod only, then it will be the first private company to go interplanetary on their own. I'm not sure if they will make it there in 2018, but even if they don't I'm excited. SpaceX seems like they actually want to achieve something on their own and I'm all for that.

Damn! I'm seriously looking forward to this!

I think I might have found the perfect life support mod.

I think a set of functioning telescopes would be a great addition to the game. It could also be very educational if it was possible to observe distant objects and get actual scientific informations about them. I would love to see some of danRosas' work implemented into the game. Not sure what he's currently working on and I don't mean to tell devs what to do, but since we don't get much of the actual cinematic animations for the update trailers, his talents could be utilised in some other and creative way. Procedural nebulae and star clusters might look great if done right. And besides, he's been experimenting with smoke effects anyway last time I've read his devnote.

Not every part should be unlocked through the experiments. Only the ones that checking the conditions is required to progress. The set of experiments rquired to unlock could be simply displayed when hovering over the part. I see your point about the limitations of such mechanic. Maybe a good solution to this would be unlimited amount of parts in the VAB/SPH. The same way the blueprints work. You first draw the plans and decide whether you have enough parts to build it or need to manufacture some more of a particular type. There are different playstyles, of course and we shouldn't judge anyone who playes by his own rules, but to me working with limited resources (the number of available parts) is part of the fun. I hoped such part manufacturing mechanic would be implemented in the game, but it wasn't.

Ya can't! NovaSilisko, who is the one who created it, proved that the Kerbolar (who even came up with this name?) system would be sort of unstable. Mainly the Jool system had some problems keeping the moons in the same orbit. Also Minmus had some problems and Gilly would need a third body to be captured IIRC.

This actually works with the Mun. Back before we had the manouver nodes you literally would wait until the Mun has risen above the Kerbin's horizon and start the burn until you got an encounter.

Yeah, I actually thought it was too big, then I saw all of the planes together and it happened to be no larder than the single engine planes. I might rework the wings and post a dl link to it once I find some free time. Wat.

Woah the turn rate of that thing is insane @gridghost! Really nice plane you got there. Eh, I wasn't expecting to go very far in the tournament anyway. I'm actually pretty happy it flew in a somewhat controlled and stable way

Yes, I agree that the whole rewrite should be avoided even though the career mode right now is not something I enjoy. That's why I try to incorporate the already existing mechanics of the game into my idea. I also agree that science experiments aren't that good either. Simple right clicking them is not that fun. After a while of spam clicking the experiments I don't even read the science messages that appear on the screen. It saddens me and makes me kind of guilty that there was so much work put into writing them and I don't even read them.

I'm feeling trolled. @Pthigrivi, do you like the current career mode? Because it sounds like you (and the other people you mentioned) play the game just to "build and fly", which is fine, but can't you do that in sandbox? Why even have the career mode if you want to do only that. Sandbox's got all you need, so why even bother replying to this thread?

@Pthigrivi 1st paragraph: The experiments would help you to research the parts faster. If you don't do science then you have to spend more money and time on the research. 2nd paragraph: The rep is what influences your income. You can't just time warp without a rep hit if you did nothing. If you activate the Jool Exploration Program and send a probe to Duna instead of Jool, then you get a rep hit. BUT if you do both, without taking the budget to explore Duna, then the HQ would be impressed with how you managed to do that without begging for extra money. So basically you say: "Alright HQ, we want to go to Jool and do a fly-by of Duna with the same spacecraft", and they are like "Damn, you're ambitious! If you manage to do that and squeeze some extra science from that fly-by then you can expect some extra cash next year!" 3rd paragraph: That's why I propose those 'programs' instead of 'strategies' to be implemented. You want to go Eve soon? Just take that exploration program and we'll give you cash to do that! Want to work on some new types of propulsion for SSTOs? Well, grab that money and get into the spaceplane hangar! Want to do everything at once? Go ahead and spamclick the heck out of the Admin Building, but be aware of risks of uncompleted tasks and goals you set yourself! 4th paragraph: That's exactly what I mean by implementing the 'Programs'. You choose one and it gives you a bunch of program-related tasks to complete, which if done right rise your rep. 5th paragraph: The science points should go IMO. NASA didn't send a bunch of rovers to the surface of Mars just to build the linear aerospike. It may somehow give freedom of what you want to do next, but is dumb and meaningless by the time you performed the experiments.

Also @Pthigrivi, could you provide some ideas on how to improve the career mode? I don't mean to be mean, but every time I see you commenting on something it's just complaining and I feel like the whole point of those threads and discussion is to point out the weak arguments and exchange the ideas. So maybe you could share some of yours since I've asked for it in the OP?

@Pthigrivi 1st issue: not all of the parts would need specific experiments to be unlocked. Only the most complicated ones. I'm thinking mainly about propulsion systems (mainly engines). The decouplers and structural parts are way simpler than that. Only money would be needed to research those (and maybe time + previous technological advancments). Also wings don't need any special research. It all comes down to building a new light weight material that can withstand heat without snapping in half. About the science points: the system of points is actually more limiting IMO. It all comes down to visiting a few biomes on the Mun and Minmus to unlock the whole tree. System based on specific experiments that influence the part research would actually give the players a nudge to explore more than only the dark side of the Mun. And btw, you have to run tedious missions in stock, which don't even unlock you any parts when completed. 2nd issue: I'm not really sure what you mean by crazy swings in rep and money, but think about it this way: you choose a strategy (Explore Jool system) and get the money to build a probe, a rocket and send it there. You have X years to complete that exploration program. If you run out of time and don't have any ongoing mission on a stable orbit of Jool your reputation goes down. If you succeed the rep goes up. Kind of like the contracts work right now, except you don't get any money after completing it.