Dakitess

Thanks for theses numbers, this is what I was looking for. Do other guys corroborate ? It's such a shame, really. I can't even understand how a KSP franchise game can achieve to damage the OG while the fans and passionate players are so dedicated and so hyped for a new one. You REALLY need to fail strong to manage something like that. Congrats, KSP2 team.

Yeah, when ? Don't you feel that the Forum and all the platform dealing with KSP (the whole franchise) definitely loose some momentum since KSP2 ? Not even since its final failure but even before, during its catastrophic dev ? I dare to say that, actually, on our french platforms (Forum + Discord + Twitter essentially), it accelerated the long decline even from the announcement back in 2019 : people were eager for a new KSP, more excited than ever and then you know the story, it got delayed, multiple times, we got some bad news, and during the final year of releasing visuals and enduring a very (very) bad communication, we were a majority to sense something bad approaching. Like, hear me : even during the last year before KSP2 anticipated access, the momentum of the french community actually decreased. What an achievement ! And then of course, the release and all the drama killed any hope. But more importantly, all of us players who were waiting for it as a new milestone to spend some thousands of hours, kept our eyes off the original KSP1, meaning no news, no crafts, no challenge, no adventures, no screenshots, etc. KSP2 damaged the whole KSP franchise and its community. Not only KSP2 itself : this is the main failure of this tentative, and this is a shame, a real damn shape to perform such an achievement. Seriously. Developing a new game and doing so bad that it damages the first successful one-of-its-kind opus. Hahaha, it sounds like a bad joke. Time might help people getting back to KSP1 : I am not ready to do so, for now. The last visual mods and updates associated might help getting back in a year or so.

I consider my last craft to be a mothership, I can speak about it for about an hour I think so I will keep it very simple : It's a big modular SSTO which has 4 main versions, this one below detach his air breathing engine to be able to reach the Mun and land there, it's the main version in mind. It's built all Stock, no mod or DLC parts, and with a good load of RolePlay in mind : all the crew cabins are connected, all the bay are accessible, pressurized, all the clipped tanks are emptied so that it fit the real available volume, etc, AND it had to be 1000t maximum, no compromises on that. I wanted it to be aesthetic and performant while keeping all the previous constraints, soooo... Yeah, there you go, took about 50h of design, testing and fine tuning and about +30h for the video itself.

If it happens, I really hope and I would be quite confident that his main goal would be to get a proper technically up to date game, like, a solid foundation of the core-game, nothing fancy, no Multiplayer, no colonies, no new gameplay, etc. Just KSP1, but running smoothly and taking benefit from 12 years of new graphics engine, new physics engine, news assets, etc etc, so that it looks nice and runs well. This is, to me, the start of a fresh and successful KSP2 which would then expand along the years, like a proper and legit Open-Access game which ensured the initial success of KSP1. Please, pretty please... This is all what we need, at first. Being able to build 1000+ parts on decent rig, with a massive overhaul of the graphics, to bring everything to another level and allow for some modding and new further contents.

100% sure is, like, alot.

I don't believe in any KSP 3.0 unfortunately, none that would be worth the name of the official game. And I definitely don't want to play any kind of ersatz, better play KSP1. Like, I don't believe in a Open Source Space Program for instance. No doubt that it would made with all the best wishes and motivation, but I doubt it would reach the quality of a KSP Successor.

When it comes to tribute, homage, there is not a lot of room for negativity. Though I definitely cannot read that "[...] you guys can stand strong behind Jeb knowing you brought something truly great to Kerbal and it's legacy". They damaged it so hard that I know more players who stopped playing KSP1 than people who discover the whole license and enjoyed it. Including myself, for dozens of reasons already mentioned way too often. Now this is time for a tribute and homage and thus I won't go further. I thank the team for the try, for their devotion against a very bad situation, for being part of what could have been the best game for another decade. So yeah, thanks for the tentative. It ended nowhere, but individually you're are not part of the failure, it just happened.

The music / sound design and the attempt to make a new modern UI, even if it did not end well. The attempt to make something new in the VAB with the WorkSpace, even if it did not end well. The attempt to get some new graphics even if it did not end well (at all, sorry). There were some attempts, some are barely positive since they were strictly mandatory, but hey, they did it anyway. And yeah the sound design was somehow very good, IIRC.

Yes I did, exclusively for KSP2 and was glad to do so. I have spent so many hours, I have developed so many activities around KSP, that it was clearly something I was ready to do to enjoy a NextGen KSP2. But we know how it ended and it was already quite clear some months before the release. The communication was so damn lazy (or maybe "very honest" ?... Nah, it was plain incompetence) about showing the game that all the defects were clearly visible and very not promising. And it delivered ! With a very bad game, aesthetically and technically speaking (To avoid speaking about the gameplay and the content haha). Fortunately, Hogwarts Legacy also came out, which I did not plan to buy at first, but which provided a lot of joy to play with my girlfriend, and it really took benefit from my new computer.

I'll definitely try to get a refund, then.

I'm really sorry but I'll go the TLDR route for that one. What I want from a KSP2 (a real one) ? Only ONE thing : to be technically up to date. I don't care about new content, new parts, new planets, new gameplay. I want my KSP1 to be recreated from scratch PROPERLY, with all the new techs, the new dev method, the new tool, with a pro-team, with a real budget to get the things done right. It would be KSP1 but beautiful (and I mean it, not what we got with KSP2, uh ? It's so friggin outdated, and aesthetically questionable !...) and running well and that's it, as a base. Then only, it would evolve, being Early Access if they wish to go that way, the old KSP1 fashion; but at the very least it would be KSP1 as it exist nowadays, but developed on a real up to date new fresh basis, ready to embed a whole new decade of contents, mods. I don't see how it cannot be the priority. Really, I don't. But that's something personal and I might be wrong, it also happens to me xD

So what ? Having a dead forum with 0 activities would actually be benefitable ? You won't see much "Today in my KSP2" topics or messages by now. Criticism has always been a way to show that we CARE of KSP2. The worst situation would have been a silent forum because of the difficulties, the bad communication, the very debatable choices, etc etc etc. It would have mean that KSP2 was dead in everyone heart. It's not what happened and it is for the best. In addition, the huge amount of criticism, even rough, harsh (but still in the limit of politeness of course) was the only way to show the KSP2 team that the game sucked, its development, their communication, etc. They even asked for it, I'll dare to say. The first months of KSP2 forum was really really bad especially because of all the defenders that would not accept that most of the players would rant about it, would criticize the choices, the prices, the performances, the graphics, the gameplay, the bugs, the wobbliness. It would then transform ANY thread in a fight between the "haters" and the "white knights", while there were a whole palette, a large nuance of opinion at first. It always end up with strong 2-side cleavage when you don't allow people to disagree. Let just the people disagree, hate, criticize, love, enjoy, like, help, doubt, etc. As long as it remains correct, polite, no need to say. It is just what we asked back in the day but, alas, we were still pushed by naysayers going hyperbolic or pretending our own opinions. Really, the worst thing would have been a dead silent forum with all the enjoyers (and their right to do so !) alone.

"This focus of visuals resulted in more fundamental design and gameplay decisions to take the back seat" LMAO, sorry, won't elaborate any further, I spilled my coffee while hearing this xD Actually I'll repeat here what I've said elsewhere : it's a GREAT video, thanks @ShadowZone for that investigation and this quality of content / neutrality on this very sad subject.

You actually belong to the majority of people that seems to not care a lot about graphics, when it comes to KSP2, I think. Majority might be right. GamePlay and content is essential. But I feel like for KSP2, this is a bit different. We already had a functional and feature complete KSP1 which was big enough to enjoy it for thousand of hours. But it was flawed by an IndieDev that started with a single guy, a 12 yo technical basis that barely got updated, and then got patched with new things, new content, new mechanics during a decade : it's not very "clean". KSP2 had the potential to fix that very main basis, to get everything equal to KSP1 but with a up to date foundation so that then, content would be added more easily, be it official or with mods. And in "Technical Update", of course, there is performance, stability AND graphics, enjoying 10 years of progress on that aspect. I really think that they would have gone further by now with that logic, content and gameplay wise, rather than fighting with bugs on an already outdated basis which won't please the "graphics and scenery guys", but neither the "content and gameplay guys", like you, since, well, it never went anywhere At the very least, having a KSP2 failing 1 year after releasing, but being the KSP1 clone while totally revamped technically speaking, would have been a major step forward, a milestone to take benefit from. @FizzleBop : sorry, did not really get what you meant. I guess it's about my grammatical issues, typos, etc : English is not my native language and I don't use any translator so that I can learn how to write more fluently, be it on official document with more attention, or on forum, with something more everyday language.

Which, eh, yeah, hum... indeed ? Yeah, like, does it change anything to the point ? Does it allow KSP2 to look like a 2015 game ? I won't ever understand that argument. It's specifically why so much graphics mods exist on KSP1 and why they are among the most popular. It's specifically why a new game developed from scratch by a pro team rather than a pile of update along 10 years based on an Indie Game by an "amateur" (as talented as he was !), was the opportunity to build something clean, with a proper updated basis, to allow for an up to date graphics while preserving performance and opening even more to the mod community. Yeah, really, that "So was KSP1" point is really out of my reach.

And still, the terrain and graphics associated remained so damn poor in KSP2. It's aesthetically ugly, which is a personal point of view involving taste, but also technically completely outdated. KSP1 with mods is definitely more worth its appearance than a 2023 KSP2 which looks crap AND very weird, inhomogeneous, almost bugged. Its physic is very perfectible (hitbox), its textures lacks consistency and details (and shaders, and...), it has barely no scatters, even less physical one, the Micro-Med-Macro topology is something between KSP1 and a 2015 game, has not character, no scenery, the lightning interact with every part of the ground so bad (horizon line in the backlight, please, seriously... It's like a staircase showroom xD), it doesn't match the craft colorimetry (or the other way), and the easter eggs are, like... Dropped assets with no transition whatsoever with the surrounding, not the same texture resolution, and react even worst to lightning. Really, KSP2 graphics is a joke.

Did you really put the "Terrain Implementation" along the Pros of this game ? Damn, it looks so aged, so outdated, so clunky, so weird, inhomogeneous, unaesthetic, etc. Especially with the harsh lightning which got quite improved by the last Blackrack efforts, but I find the terrain to be so 2015, technically speaking, and very not beautiful as an art decision (which is more personal opinion). The only way to get it "OK-Ish" is to compare it to Stock KSP1. But doing so, well, I won't elaborate further, it is nonsense to me as it's just the literal bare minimum. Terrain is very precisely what I was expected the most, because it would mean a LOT for this game, even gameplay wise, with proper collision, scenery, landscape to discover, etc etc, I've already repeated that so many time and now there no point to get to it again. Really, terrain and scenery is the key for a proper KSP2... Everything else fade out compared to what it can bring to the table. Look at the trailer again if you want to talk about it, I don't find much people sharing my opinion so I would gladly elaborate again, finally, if there is some people who want to debate that subject.

Haha ESA won't ever do something like this, nor the very majority of the space-related companies and institutions in Europe.

I'll allow myself to bring my own personal opinion about what the KSP2 future could be, from now. We know that the actual KSP2 won't achieve anything past the actual state of the game. Actually, it's "only highly probable", I can't see the future. But even if they pursue the dev one more year to release 2-3 patches to fix the remaining main bugs, even if they push to the Colonies Update because it's 90% done, it won't achieve anything. Colonies need resources, need interstellar, etc, to be relevant. It's only a brick of a whole wall. And I don't see why they would push to this update, because this last hypothetical 10% is always the hardest and would require some fix after that, some patches : more work, more financial debt just to finish an ark, while it won't improve sufficiently the Steam Feedback, won't trigger new purchases ? Nah, I don't see how / why it would happen. That being said, let's assume, if you will, that this is the end of the actual KSP2 game. What now ? To me, the only possible positive outcome would be a new Dev team, a pro one, not amateurs, willing to make money of course, that would announce a "The Real KSP2" in a year or two, knowing that if they actually meet the people requirements, it would be a million sells. "Just" need to be economically viable, which means something less "big" (well...) than KSP2, more rational, more pragmatic, the keep the dev time low and thus the cost low. What would it looks like ? Well, exactly what I expected KSP2 to be : a from-scratch, pro-developed KSP1, embedding all the news techs that appeared the last decade, taking benefits from the new hardware, the news skills, etc. A MASSIVE technical update of KSP1 and that's it, nothing more. Yeah, I know, it's probably already a big work haha, but it's far more doable, to me, than what the actual KSP2 tried to make, while failing at every part of it. So yeah, a big technical update, ready to host, then, for a whole new decade, some updates, be they minor or major, but without any promise, just like we had during 12 years with KSP1. But at least something which would be running well on our machine, and worth to get mods and new official contents along the year, thanks to a clean from-scratch basis. This announce would need to come quite soon, like in a year or two, so that KSP don't get buried too far in all memories. What are your opinion about this ? Do you see KSP2 as needing a whole new content, gameplay, to be worth it ?

It's well said. Of course it's just a game. But it actually shaped some part of my actual life, activities, achievements. I left my KSP association when my little girl was born, 3 years ago and I guess I want her to be able to play a kind of KSP in a few years or so. KSP2 was for me the sign that at the very least, we would have another decade of enjoyment with an up to date game to play with. I am not sure I would introduce her to a wonky looking KSP1, be it able to operate on Windows12 with quantics graphic cards haha.

This, a million time, and we definitely are not exception. KSP2 really heavily damaged the KSP franchise to the point that it manages to reduce the joy to play KSP1. It's such an achievement. I'm a very long time player of KSP, countless hours, from the 0.18.2 or even slightly before, I founded a whole association about it to organize Real Life events, Orbital Mechanics in school, I've mastered the Stock Game, I wrote so many lines to help out other people, to invite the new players to properly discover the game and its richness, etc etc. I said back un 2013 that KSP would need a proper pro-dev KSP2 so that it would enjoy new tech, new game engine, a good professionnal and well managed from-scratch development to get the best of it, to allow for more mod flexibility, etc. When it was announced, I was so happy, I let KSP1 down for quite a long time, multiple years, only contributing through my association, something like 500 hours InGame at most during 5-6 years. Because I really needed KSP2 as a fresh start and real hope. Now, well, I don't want to even play KSP1 knowing that there were such a real potential in KSP2, completely ruined. This is what is affecting me the most after so much time and pleasure involved, so much activities, a real part of my life, I dare to say.

All the opposite for me. I expected KSP2 as a massive technical upgrade of an existing game, KSP1, with all the same gameplay and mechanics, and then only, the content would evolve to get new kind of gameplay : colonies, interstellar, etc. And why not a revamped Science mode indeed, even if I only play Sandbox. But we all know how it ended up : a massive technical disappointment. No new tech inside, the very same game engine that had already proven all its limits, with only some correct upgrade at the cost of performance, while adding some weird artifact and art choices that are actually less enjoyable than a slighltly modded KSP1. Oh, and, all of this while not getting the core gameplay of KSP1 during a loooooooong time, and even now, we are facing bugs or incomplete tools that are very irritating. So, when am I going to "invest" more in KSP2 ? When it will be beautiful enough (probably thanks to mods) to not look like a 2015 game, while having all the core gameplay. I don't care much about Colonies, Interstellar, Multiplayer, I just want to play the KSP that I know but on a strictly better version, by a Pro Team, 12 years after the first indie game. That's it. But I would gladly welcome any new content AFTER the core being complete and functional. And aesthetic. And running OK on a gaming computer (which has improved a lot, a good thing, while still something like 3x not enough to allow for big crafts that we were advertised.). Edit : well... Regarding the date of the day... I won't hope for more. I've always been very pessimistic (realistic ?) and I don't enjoy being proving right on the KSP2 destiny. But, well, it's the end I guess. I'll commit more when KSP2 will be restarted from the ground I guess.

DV calculus were already very questionable in KSP1 with no repeatability even on very simple builds. I have numerous cases about it, like simply changing from Engine A to B and then reverting to A, DV would change sometimes... It's for simple builds. For "complex" (like, just advanced, nothing terrible, really), it won't ever show correct numbers. KSP2 is even worse in every part : it makes the DV totally unusable while mods does it correctly (mostly) for years and years on KSP1. I don't get it.

Hoooo so cool, the guy who wrote the whole program of OptiGT just released an English Video to showcase its use !! It's not the article and I've not seen it entirely but I can already bet that you'll be amazed

I really don't even know what could please me about that colonies content. I guess I want it to be challenging as well as beautiful, aesthetic. To be able to finetune the colony on a very specific place, like leaning against a cliff partially with the launch pad overhanging over a canyon. The kind of aesthetic and terrain adaptability we've seen in the original trailer, that's it. But since the actual terrain is miles (sorry, light-year) behind what we saw in the trailer, the lightning and colors so weird, the physics not quite on point, etc, I don't see how we will end with some very basic quasi-flat station with some buggy overhang pillars tentative that will float a some meters above ground, missing the shadows, or not fitting the ground textures definition, etc. Yeah, quite pessimistic about it, since Terrain and Aesthetic is what I consider as the top priority for KSP2 and it's nothing to say that it under delivers a lot.