[1.12.x] USI Life Support

[cantab]

5 hours ago, RoverDude said:

No, it does not dynamically change - it's 15 Kerbal days so if you're using earth time... yeah, you're going to run out a lot earlier and consume more.

 

Whaaaaaaat???

Seriously??? I choose to use Earth time because I'm in a modded system where "Kerbin time" makes no sense. You're saying that that actually effs up the game balance? EDIT: To clarify, are you saying that changing the Kerbin/Earth time setting will make Kerbals consume a different amount of supplys per second?

What the actual heck?

I'm this close to just dropping all your mods if you're going to be pulling shenanigans like that in them.

Edited May 12, 2016 by cantab

[sentania]

5 minutes ago, cantab said:

 

Whaaaaaaat???

Seriously??? I choose to use Earth time because I'm in a modded system where "Kerbin time" makes no sense. You're saying that that actually effs up the game balance? EDIT: To clarify, are you saying that changing the Kerbin/Earth time setting will make Kerbals consume a different amount of supplys per second?

What the actual heck?

I'm this close to just dropping all your mods if you're going to be pulling shenanigans like that in them.

The way I read it, it's not that you consume them quicker, it's 15 kerbal days, so if you are doing Earth time that means there are 4 kerbal days per earth day.....

[RoverDude]

5 minutes ago, cantab said:

 

Whaaaaaaat???

Seriously??? I choose to use Earth time because I'm in a modded system where "Kerbin time" makes no sense. You're saying that that actually effs up the game balance? EDIT: To clarify, are you saying that changing the Kerbin/Earth time setting will make Kerbals consume a different amount of supplys per second?

What the actual heck?

I'm this close to just dropping all your mods if you're going to be pulling shenanigans like that in them.

Really?

You know, it may be for the best for you to drop them.  I find your post unnecessarily rude, and not having to support someone with this kind of attitude is hardly a threat.

[mcortez]

4 minutes ago, cantab said:

 

Whaaaaaaat???

Seriously??? I choose to use Earth time because I'm in a modded system where "Kerbin time" makes no sense. You're saying that that actually effs up the game balance? EDIT: To clarify, are you saying that changing the Kerbin/Earth time setting will make Kerbals consume a different amount of supplys per second?

What the actual heck?

I'm this close to just dropping all your mods if you're going to be pulling shenanigans like that in them.

Frankly I'd be surprised if any Mod's author would care if you dropped their mod.  They've gone to a lot of time and effort to create their mods and share them with the community.  They're under no obligation to do so.  Honestly, any author that goes to the extra effort of providing configuration files and support for people to integrate their mods with others and allows them to be customized to support special cases like yours -- should be praised for the effort.  RD has gone to that extra effort, there's a config file, and he includes MM scripts to support a number of other mods as well.

*You* are free to open up the settings config file and customize for whatever time-scale you want, Kerbal or Earth.

[KocLobster]

On 4/27/2015 at 10:37 AM, RoverDude said:

So you can do some very interesting things. Run a command pod to dock reviving supplies/snacks to a starved out colony ship. Use one of your orange-suits to lead a mission and conserve supplies. Note that Kerbals are pretty damn aggressive about getting their snacks - the only way to lock them out of the biscuit tin is to click that little feed button by the resource on a part (same way we reserve some battery power for a probe

I did not realize this was possible. Anytime I've ever tried this, it flicks over to the red circle with a line through it, and then immediately flicks back to the green arrow. I have always experienced this with all versions of MKS and USI-LS that I've used. What have I done wrong to cause this? I have always been unable to stop a kerbals from eating the supplies. The only workarounds I know are putting the supplies in KIS containers, or sending the ship with an empty supply storage, and have an additional Probe sent along with it to its destination, and then transferring over the supplies when I actually need to use my kerbals.

This never felt right to me, but I assumed it was intended. After reading that on the front page, obviously i screwed something up. How can I fix this, and what additional information should I provide to make it easier to help me?

I'm using Win7 64bit, and KSP 1.1.2 64bit. Both USI mods are the most up to date; UKS .40.2.1 and USI-LS .4.2.1 (although i experienced this back in .33.9 too). Thanks for your help.

[RoverDude]

That bit is out of date as it caused some issues - they now forcefully unlock everything, so there's no way to keep them out of the supply tins (which was the design intent).  i.e. you are not meant to intentionally starve your kerbals or hide supplies from them to bypass the supply requirements.

[dlrk]

Roverdude,

Have you been able to reproduce the UI issue  reported? If it's not an issue everyone else having, I'd like to provide whatever info would help.

[KocLobster]

12 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

That bit is out of date as it caused some issues - they now forcefully unlock everything, so there's no way to keep them out of the supply tins (which was the design intent).  i.e. you are not meant to intentionally starve your kerbals or hide supplies from them to bypass the supply requirements.

Ah I see, that does make sense I suppose. Thanks for being so quick to help! Sometimes I just don't want to spend the funds and mass to keep my kerbals supplied for hundreds of days when I don't need them and wouldn't care if they were tourists. Often I don't need them until many many days later, when I arrive at my destination's SOI.

And unless I want to bring an engineer to bypass this and bring my supplies in a KIS storage to attach to the ship at my destination, I generally have to either suck it up and bring tons of supplies or fertilizer/nom-o-matic, or send a very small 2nd probe at basically the same time with supplies.

 

Is it bad I want to starve my Kerbals for such lengths of time in order to essentially save on funds?

*laughs maniacally*

Edited May 12, 2016 by KocLobster

[Andem]

16 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

That bit is out of date as it caused some issues - they now forcefully unlock everything, so there's no way to keep them out of the supply tins (which was the design intent).  i.e. you are not meant to intentionally starve your kerbals or hide supplies from them to bypass the supply requirements.

Hmm... I suppose that means I can't ration my supplies when it get's low... I suppose I could EVA the kerbals so they don't consume supplies, but a rationing mechanic would be interesting.

[ibanix]

24 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

That bit is out of date as it caused some issues - they now forcefully unlock everything, so there's no way to keep them out of the supply tins (which was the design intent).  i.e. you are not meant to intentionally starve your kerbals or hide supplies from them to bypass the supply requirements.

Another reason it might be time fot your next "release" to be a comprehensive update of the documentation. 

1 hour ago, cantab said:

 

Whaaaaaaat???

Seriously??? I choose to use Earth time because I'm in a modded system where "Kerbin time" makes no sense. You're saying that that actually effs up the game balance? EDIT: To clarify, are you saying that changing the Kerbin/Earth time setting will make Kerbals consume a different amount of supplys per second?

What the actual heck?

I'm this close to just dropping all your mods if you're going to be pulling shenanigans like that in them.

The best mod you could currently install would be an attitude improvement. 

[RoverDude]

21 minutes ago, dlrk said:

Roverdude,

Have you been able to reproduce the UI issue  reported? If it's not an issue everyone else having, I'd like to provide whatever info would help.

Which one?  If it's the one where crew count is not reflecting, that one is solved.  If it's another, remind me

[dlrk]

Nope, that's it! Thanks!

[RoverDude]

22 minutes ago, KocLobster said:

Ah I see, that does make sense I suppose. Thanks for being so quick to help! Sometimes I just don't want to spend the funds and mass to keep my kerbals supplied for hundreds of days when I don't need them and wouldn't care if they were tourists. Often I don't need them until many many days later, when I arrive at my destination's SOI.

And unless I want to bring an engineer to bypass this and bring my supplies in a KIS storage to attach to the ship at my destination, I generally have to either suck it up and bring tons of supplies or fertilizer/nom-o-matic, or send a very small 2nd probe at basically the same time with supplies.

 

Is it bad I want to starve my Kerbals for such lengths of time in order to essentially save on funds?

*laughs maniacally*

Yeah... that's bad

10 minutes ago, Andem said:

Hmm... I suppose that means I can't ration my supplies when it get's low... I suppose I could EVA the kerbals so they don't consume supplies, but a rationing mechanic would be interesting.

Hard to ration oxygen

[Andem]

9 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

Hard to ration oxygen

You make a god point... I guess you can't really argue with a general term like "supplies" 

[RoverDude]

FYI:

Defaults work as they do now (most pessimistic of all settings files), but after that you are free to mess with the settings to your heart's content.

 

[Tandoori]

If kerbals really are evolved from frog-like creatures, it's reasonable to assume they would go into a deep hibernation/suspended animation when there is a lack of supplies, so you could role play it like that.

That is, if you wanted. You monster.

EDIT: Roverdude, that's awesome. Would any changes to the config menu take effect immedately in-game? I'm under the assumption that manually editing the file as it is currently only takes effect when either the game or vessel is loaded.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Tandoori

[ibanix]

RoverDude, is the date type setting (kerbin vs earth, 6h vs 24h) something you can query programmatically? If so, you may want to add logic to give equivalent grace times, if the default values are being used. To prevent similar surprise by other new USI users

[VaPaL]

1 hour ago, KocLobster said:

Ah I see, that does make sense I suppose. Thanks for being so quick to help! Sometimes I just don't want to spend the funds and mass to keep my kerbals supplied for hundreds of days when I don't need them and wouldn't care if they were tourists. Often I don't need them until many many days later, when I arrive at my destination's SOI.

And unless I want to bring an engineer to bypass this and bring my supplies in a KIS storage to attach to the ship at my destination, I generally have to either suck it up and bring tons of supplies or fertilizer/nom-o-matic, or send a very small 2nd probe at basically the same time with supplies.

 

Is it bad I want to starve my Kerbals for such lengths of time in order to essentially save on funds?

*laughs maniacally*

You can you DeepFreeze for that:

 

[ibanix]

15 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

FYI:

Defaults work as they do now (most pessimistic of all settings files), but after that you are free to mess with the settings to your heart's content.

 

The graphical config looks great. I might suggest using 'supply grace time' to make it clear it's how much time you get AFTER the supplies run out. 

(Also, wear is still not actually causing any effects, right?)

[RoverDude]

12 minutes ago, Tandoori said:

If kerbals really are evolved from frog-like creatures, it's reasonable to assume they would go into a deep hibernation/suspended animation when there is a lack of supplies, so you could role play it like that.

That is, if you wanted. You monster.

EDIT: Roverdude, that's awesome. Would any changes to the config menu take effect immedately in-game? I'm under the assumption that manually editing the file as it is currently only takes effect when either the game or vessel is loaded.

I do not assume they are frogs, nor that they hibernate.  And yes, any change takes effect immediately in game.

9 minutes ago, ibanix said:

RoverDude, is the date type setting (kerbin vs earth, 6h vs 24h) something you can query programmatically? If so, you may want to add logic to give equivalent grace times, if the default values are being used. To prevent similar surprise by other new USI users

I can, but really the only thing I would change would be displays (which as I recall already adjust for 24h) so you get 4 days vs 15 days.  

6 minutes ago, ibanix said:

The graphical config looks great. I might suggest using 'supply grace time' to make it clear it's how much time you get AFTER the supplies run out. 

(Also, wear is still not actually causing any effects, right?)

Space is limited - hence further detail on wiki

[VaPaL]

@ibanix wear is off unless you have UKS installed. I'm not using the most updated version, so I'm not sure if it still off.

[ibanix]

Oh, hm, I see what you mean. Perhaps some bold face in documentation noting that earth-time users will have less *days* of grace time. Cheap insurance against later complaints...

[RoverDude]

Seconds are pretty clear tho   And non-ambiguous

[goldenpsp]

1 hour ago, ibanix said:

Another reason it might be time fot your next "release" to be a comprehensive update of the documentation. 

I wouldn't necessarily hold your breath.  Roverdude could prove me wrong, but historically he creates, and the user base documents.  Not to say Roverdude hasn't written up some things, but in generally the bulk of the "comprehensive" documentation has come from the user base.

[KocLobster]

@RoverDude

Thank you for your clarification.  Also, the new GUI looks absolutely great, I am excited to see its existence. I didn't like having to reload my game to implement changes to the cfg, so I like how the GUI is instant. It's a great idea, I'm surprised you hadn't thought of it/implemented it before now.

@VaPaL

Thanks for your suggestion. I've definitely looked at DF before and been interested, but just never ended up trying it out. I assume it's compatible with USI-LS?

@cantab

I won't fight fire with fire, or add an additional and unnecessary bad attitude to the mix, but i would like to say that I definitely would recommend uninstalling these mods; this community would be better off without your poor attitude.

RoverDude, and all mod makers for that matter, create mods in their spare time, free of charge. He doesn't owe you anything, and you shouldn't feel entitled to support. Mod makers also are free to design whatever they please, and are under no obligation to make mods tailored for Cantab's personal tastes and enjoyment.

You'd really do well to try and remember that. Next time take a deep breath before getting angry at others who are only trying to enrich this already wonderful community.