[1.12.x] USI Life Support

[Errol]

So do you know if it is possible to do all the required processes with just USI LS? I haven't played with USI LS or MKS yet, just sort of checking in on their development here and there while I wait for all the mods I want to play together working. MKS looks far different from when I first looked at it, and I have very little idea what is going on anymore. 

Can I make a closed loop life support vessel, using the mini ISRU drills to replace used fertilizer, or not?

[Bit Fiddler]

it looks like it....  but mabe need a second opinion.   the mini IRSU part mentioned does indeed make fertilizer from ore.

 

However i would suggest using MKS.  It adds many things to the game that are worth every bit of overhead in my opinion.

Edited February 5, 2018 by Bit Fiddler

[domassimo]

2 hours ago, Errol said:

So do you know if it is possible to do all the required processes with just USI LS? I haven't played with USI LS or MKS yet, just sort of checking in on their development here and there while I wait for all the mods I want to play together working. MKS looks far different from when I first looked at it, and I have very little idea what is going on anymore. 

Can I make a closed loop life support vessel, using the mini ISRU drills to replace used fertilizer, or not?

Yes, you would be able to make a closed-loop system with just USI-LS. As I may have mentioned before, the conversion from ore to fertiliser is rather slow (MKS brings on more efficient ways of doing it by mining minerals or gypsum, not sure). I personally also gave the larger ISRU the ability to convert ore into fertiliser to make it a bit easier to make larger bases closed-loop without the need for an otherwise unnecessary mini ISRU unit. I would test a vessel on Kerbin first to see if fertiliser generation is quick enough to keep up with its consumption before sending it into the void.

[Errol]

Yeah, i was thinking about either increasing the ratio produced by the mini or adding it to the larger drills too. 

Mostly i just wanted to make sure that usi ls contains all the requisite processes. 

[Nergal8617]

10 hours ago, Errol said:

If I can make a closed loop colony that doesn't involve the MKS machinery mechanics at all, and just uses greenhouses from usi ls, that's fine with me. 

You can with a surface colony as long as you have resource mining and converters to get fertilizer.  If you want closed loop on an orbital station it's not going to happen, at the least you would have to ship in fertilizer.

[Errol]

4 hours ago, Nergal8617 said:

You can with a surface colony as long as you have resource mining and converters to get fertilizer.  If you want closed loop on an orbital station it's not going to happen, at the least you would have to ship in fertilizer.

Perfect, fair enough. I remember the intention with mks was that orbital won't be able to be closed loop except through an exceptional amount of planning/modules. Im honestly ok with not being closed loop unless i manage to snag an asteroid to build a station on, or just keep up resupply missions. I play with orbital decay as well, so i make regular trips to my stations for station keeping anyway.

[Piotrburz]

I've set my kerbal to die when running out of supplies, but i've left making them grumpy when the hab time runs out. The problem is -they become tourist when hab time runs out, but they won't die when the supplies will end. When i change them to die when the hab time runs out they die, but that's not what i wanted...

 

Ok i found the problem

 

private void ApplyEffect(LifeSupportStatus kStat, ProtoCrewMember crew, int effectId, string reason)
        {
            //Tourists are immune to effects
            if (crew.type == ProtoCrewMember.KerbalType.Tourist || crew.experienceTrait.Title == "Tourist")
                return;

 

I could recompile that for myself, but i would rather have an option in the mod menu that enable/disable status effects for tourists. 

Edited February 13, 2018 by Piotrburz

[Pleb]

I think it's like that so you can actually rescue crew that become tourists after running out of supplies/ec/hab time. Although if you want them to die if they run out of supplies then it won't really bother you!

[Piotrburz]

13 minutes ago, Pleb said:

I think it's like that so you can actually rescue crew that become tourists after running out of supplies/ec/hab time. Although if you want them to die if they run out of supplies then it won't really bother you!

 

Well i like when my kerbals die, because of my mistakes. Also makes a fun game, when i have to rescue them ASAP, despite horrible transfer window :P. My reasoning is simple -without an open space, a kerbal can go mad, but without supplies he has to die. Maybe add a hibernation option, where kerbal will loose stats, but he can basically go half a year without supplies. After all kerbals are amphibian creatures? They surely can hibernate. 

[Pleb]

@Piotrburz That's probably open to interpretation regarding the amphibian status, but I agree I tend to have my supplies running out setting to death. However they've yet to actually run out of supplies! I think I always pack too much...

[DStaal]

1 hour ago, Piotrburz said:

I've set my kerbal to die when running out of supplies, but i've left making them grumpy when the hab time runs out. The problem is -they become tourist when hab time runs out, but they won't die when the supplies will end. When i change them to die when the hab time runs out they die, but that's not what i wanted...

 

Ok i found the problem

 

private void ApplyEffect(LifeSupportStatus kStat, ProtoCrewMember crew, int effectId, string reason)
        {
            //Tourists are immune to effects
            if (crew.type == ProtoCrewMember.KerbalType.Tourist || crew.experienceTrait.Title == "Tourist")
                return;

 

I could recompile that for myself, but i would rather have an option in the mod menu that enable/disable status effects for tourists. 

May I suggest you create a GitHub issue for it?  RoverDude tends to track those better than requests in the forums.

[Bit Fiddler]

there was another life support / Kerbal fitness sort of mod out there.  maybe keep fit or something like that.  anyway, it had not only the idea of home sick, loneliness, etc.  but it also took into account personality of individual Kerbals mixing with the others...  so for instance on a long trip you would not want to sent Keelie with Konnie because they do not get along and their performance may suffer.  But if Keelie goes with Val not only do they get along but they really like one another and get bonuses to their activities.   this may be over simplifying the idea and I do not recall which mod it was to direct attention to it.  but I was wondering if it was something might be incorporated into the USI family of mods.

 

on the surface it sounded interesting, but it may just overly complicate matters.

 

 

[Kurtvw]

@RoverDude
I love most of this mod.   But I wanted to share with you a corner that kinda bugs me and caused me to uninstall.

Ok - So for instance supplies, we know the numbers, we can plan them and work them and if we run out our kerbals get snotty and stop working, that part makes sense and works great.

... But as it applies to 'Homesick' there is a problem... and the problem is that you can have a kerbal quit working while minutes away from getting home, and that doesn't make sense at all.   Tonite I had a pair of kerbals coming home in a capsule with a hab space attached... prior to Kerbin entry I jettisoned the hab, and one of the kerbals had a knee biting homesick freak out within just a few seconds.   It could have torpedoed the mission if he was my pilot.

I don't know what it might take to code, but it seems to me that if the ship is either headed home, or in this case, irrevocably headed home since it has no engines and is re-entering at Kerbin, and 1 or 2 minutes from splashdown, maybe the kerbal could somehow suppress his tears?

It just didn't make sense that minutes from return home this guy goes all fetal position and thumb-sucking potentially preventing a safe return because, golly, 15 more seconds away from my wife is enough to kill the whole dang krew over....   

I hope you can find a way to handle this.. For now I've uninstalled the life support mod because potentially losing a mission on return to home like that just would make me mad without adding realism.   I really like the mod otherwise.   

Anyhow thanks for all your USI badassery.

[RoverDude]

Sorry, limits are there for a reason.  Tho moot point as you uninstalled. 

[goldenpsp]

33 minutes ago, Kurtvw said:

@RoverDude
I love most of this mod.   But I wanted to share with you a corner that kinda bugs me and caused me to uninstall.

Ok - So for instance supplies, we know the numbers, we can plan them and work them and if we run out our kerbals get snotty and stop working, that part makes sense and works great.

... But as it applies to 'Homesick' there is a problem... and the problem is that you can have a kerbal quit working while minutes away from getting home, and that doesn't make sense at all.   Tonite I had a pair of kerbals coming home in a capsule with a hab space attached... prior to Kerbin entry I jettisoned the hab, and one of the kerbals had a knee biting homesick freak out within just a few seconds.   It could have torpedoed the mission if he was my pilot.

I don't know what it might take to code, but it seems to me that if the ship is either headed home, or in this case, irrevocably headed home since it has no engines and is re-entering at Kerbin, and 1 or 2 minutes from splashdown, maybe the kerbal could somehow suppress his tears?

It just didn't make sense that minutes from return home this guy goes all fetal position and thumb-sucking potentially preventing a safe return because, golly, 15 more seconds away from my wife is enough to kill the whole dang krew over....   

I hope you can find a way to handle this.. For now I've uninstalled the life support mod because potentially losing a mission on return to home like that just would make me mad without adding realism.   I really like the mod otherwise.   

Anyhow thanks for all your USI badassery.

You can always change the HomeWorldAltitude value to something higher so that essentially they won't get homesick when close you get in range of kerbin.  USI-LS as well as most USI mods are highly configurable to your specific desires.

[Kurtvw]

1 hour ago, RoverDude said:

Sorry, limits are there for a reason.  Tho moot point as you uninstalled. 

Hardly moot for an uninstall, a reinstall could happen in 30 seconds.

The config limits really aren't what I'm driving at.  I know that is adjustable... But a distance from home as a hard line only makes sense to a programmer.   In real world experience, Bob, if you were on your way home from Singapore, would you just stop trying because it takes too darn long?    "I'm just so far away, and I know I'm headed home, but jeez, six more hours is too much, I quit"

I'm wondering if there is some way you can soften it in the mod?    I get that programmatically it's hard to choose a boundary line.  But It felt very disengaging to have a kerbal quit like that in the last phase of flight because I hadn't crossed the magic line in the config.    25k is home, 25k plus one millimeter, but headed the right direction, nah, too hard, I quit.

There has got to be a better way.  Maybe scale it against the max distance from Kerbin that the Kerbal went?   Like if you're within 10 percent of the max distance travelled, then it scales back somehow?

 

Edited February 18, 2018 by Kurtvw

[danielboro]

@RoverDude

this thing (lose of hub on decoupling/staging hub section for reentry) was reported before and fieals more like a bug then a wanted limit.
is it possible to add a min hub time after a decouple/stage?
this way if you have 1 day and then decouple/stage hub section it will only drop to min and not to 0

personally all my reentry pods have a dedicated KOS scripts that get the crew down safely on detecting that the capsule is going to land regardless if it doring liftoff or landing or conses or not

 

Edited February 18, 2018 by danielboro

[RoverDude]

1 hour ago, danielboro said:

@RoverDude

this thing (lose of hub on decoupling/staging hub section for reentry) was reported before and fieals more like a bug then a wanted limit.
is it possible to add a min hub time after a decouple/stage?
this way if you have 1 day and then decouple/stage hub section it will only drop to min and not to 0

personally all my reentry pods have a dedicated KOS scripts that get the crew down safely on detecting that the capsule is going to land regardless if it doring liftoff or landing or conses or not

 

That's been fixed for a while now.

6 hours ago, Kurtvw said:

I'm wondering if there is some way you can soften it in the mod?    I get that programmatically it's hard to choose a boundary line.  But It felt very disengaging to have a kerbal quit like that in the last phase of flight because I hadn't crossed the magic line in the config.    25k is home, 25k plus one millimeter, but headed the right direction, nah, too hard, I quit.

Not gonna happen, no.  What you're asking for is non-trivial, and not a valuable use of my time given it can be circumvented with good planning.

[danielboro]

9 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

That's been fixed for a while now.

this is wat he was reporting
?!?

8 hours ago, Kurtvw said:

. prior to Kerbin entry I jettisoned the hab, and one of the kerbals had a knee biting homesick freak out

 

[RoverDude]

30 minutes ago, danielboro said:

this is wat he was reporting
?!?

 

No, it's not what he was reporting.  His timer ran out.  Either that or he's on an old version... but the discussion point where I say 'NO' is doing calculations based on projected entry and having a soft timer vs. the current hard one with altitude reset.

Edited February 18, 2018 by RoverDude

[Terwin]

7 hours ago, Kurtvw said:

I'm wondering if there is some way you can soften it in the mod?    I get that programmatically it's hard to choose a boundary line.  But It felt very disengaging to have a kerbal quit like that in the last phase of flight because I hadn't crossed the magic line in the config.    25k is home, 25k plus one millimeter, but headed the right direction, nah, too hard, I quit.

There has got to be a better way.  Maybe scale it against the max distance from Kerbin that the Kerbal went?   Like if you're within 10 percent of the max distance travelled, then it scales back somehow?

If this is a problem for you, set the home altitude to 250km(or higher if you do a lot of slow braking burns) or include a probe core.

Even the integrated antenna of a probe core should keep you flying at any altitude where you might consider a kerbal 'close to home.'  It is not like the small ones weigh much or take much EC. 

(just the other day I landed a couple of delivery drones on Minmus where they would be disassembled for additional material kits for my new Minmus base.  They were down to one bar, but still had full probe control out at Minmus orbit with no supplemental antennas)

[Kurtvw]

12 hours ago, RoverDude said:

No, it's not what he was reporting.  His timer ran out.  Either that or he's on an old version... but the discussion point where I say 'NO' is doing calculations based on projected entry and having a soft timer vs. the current hard one with altitude reset.

@RoverDude The version is current as applied by CKAN it was 7.0.0.

It was a minmus flight and it wasn't terribly long, but they were beyond their capsule only limit, so they had a 2 man crew cabin in there, (the stock one).... We weren't anywhere near the many months of hab time that module brings.  It was 2 kerbals with 2 seats in the capsule (Salamander) and 2 empty seats in the hab

As soon as it decoupled the trouble started.

I didn't know you had a previous similar bug, this may be that same thing, because what was described by the other poster was exactly what happened.

 

Thanks @Terwin thats helpful too.

Edited February 19, 2018 by Kurtvw

[kcs123]

Something is wrong then.I got also latest USI installed with CKAN. I got similar craft that consist of 3 crew Mk stock command module and stock habitate module for tourist journey to Mun and back. Although, I didn't ditched habitat module, only turned off/on habitat as needed to save EC. All seats filled with kerbals.

While I have habitat running, I got around 97 days or so for homesick/habitation. (writting from top of my head so it might not be exact number).
As soon as I turn off habitation, timer drops to 7 days. It is almost enough for Minimus too, depending of planed trajectory. It does not bother me even if it expire, as I got on craft command probe and kOS CPU to run custom scripts, as I become lazy to execute maneuver nodes by hand.

Of course, I was set up a comm network in Kerbin SOI already, grinding money at some time from those sattelite contracts.
From my perspectiver, habitation/homesick work as intended.

[Kurtvw]

13 hours ago, RoverDude said:

 

Not gonna happen, no.  What you're asking for is non-trivial, and not a valuable use of my time given it can be circumvented with good planning.

@RoverDude I totally understand, I don't program kerbal stuff, but I am a programmer in my day job - And as this discussion is evolving I'm starting to think this was a bug anyhow and not about the intended mechanics.   I had a hab that provides 25 months (if memory serves), and 2 kerbals, so that should have been 12.5 total months.   The mission was perhaps 20 days total.   Everyone was perfectly happy until I decoupled the hab for re-entry.

I still have the craft file if you want to have a look at it, or if it might help you.  Just let me know.

[Tabris]

5 minutes ago, Kurtvw said:

@RoverDude I totally understand, I don't program kerbal stuff, but I am a programmer in my day job - And as this discussion is evolving I'm starting to think this was a bug anyhow and not about the intended mechanics.   I had a hab that provides 25 months (if memory serves), and 2 kerbals, so that should have been 12.5 total months.   The mission was perhaps 20 days total.   Everyone was perfectly happy until I decoupled the hab for re-entry.

I still have the craft file if you want to have a look at it, or if it might help you.  Just let me know.

did you turn on the  hab?