Real ISRU Development Thread

[etheoma]

 

On 10/2/2018 at 2:59 AM, Starwaster said:

@etheoma @hypervelocity

As to the state of the mod, I've been going over recipes and making sure that they are consistent and accurate as best I can. I've also replaced unrealistic power production parts (which I think were just for testing anyway) with more reasonable parts (10kW and 40kW Kilopower reactors). I wouldn't say it's complete but it's more so than when I started looking into it. Right now I think I'm *IT* as far as contributors go although I've had input from a couple of members in #RO.

So if you think there's anything missing or if something needs correcting, raise an issue at https://github.com/KSP-RO/RealISRU which I have write access to and I'll try to address it.

I probably won't be able to do anything with regards to models which is too bad because the Kilopower reactors could use decent models, especially the animated umbrella radiators.

Btw I would point out that Interstella has some nice reactor models and radiator models, if you contact Free thinker and even just slightly edit them I am sure he would be willing to allow you to use the models. I wouldn't suggest using the Interstellar system of power generation because it's OP AF, but just the models.

Edited October 14, 2018 by etheoma

[Starwaster]

1 hour ago, etheoma said:

 

Btw I would point out that Interstella has some nice reactor models and radiator models, if you contact Free thinker and even just slightly edit them I am sure he would be willing to allow you to use the models. I wouldn't suggest using the Interstellar system of power generation because it's OP AF, but just the models.

As I understood it, KSPI mainly uses models from other mods. And some were made for it by @zzz who put all of his works in the public domain.

If you think there are specific models that might be suitable then post links to pictures of them...

(I used one of zzz's radiator models for Real Fuels radiator back before we got some for stock. That one can still be found in my mod Real Active Radiators)

[etheoma]

5 hours ago, Starwaster said:

As I understood it, KSPI mainly uses models from other mods. And some were made for it by @zzz who put all of his works in the public domain.

If you think there are specific models that might be suitable then post links to pictures of them...

(I used one of zzz's radiator models for Real Fuels radiator back before we got some for stock. That one can still be found in my mod Real Active Radiators)

That does sound about right, but personally I would be more interested in some form of mono propellant production than on new models tbh as that is the only thing it's REALLY missing. Even if it's the worst kind of mono propellant just anything would be great although I must admit I would proffer it to be Aerozine50 and NTO as the best mono prop engine in RO is the FASA Advanced Semini Lander Engine for long term bases as it doesn't have an ignition limit and has a vacume specific impluse of 311 seconds, but honestly anything would do.

[Starwaster]

4 hours ago, etheoma said:

That does sound about right, but personally I would be more interested in some form of mono propellant production than on new models tbh as that is the only thing it's REALLY missing. Even if it's the worst kind of mono propellant just anything would be great although I must admit I would proffer it to be Aerozine50 and NTO as the best mono prop engine in RO is the FASA Advanced Semini Lander Engine for long term bases as it doesn't have an ignition limit and has a vacume specific impluse of 311 seconds, but honestly anything would do.

Half of what you want is already there in the form of the Ammonia Oxidizer but a recipe for hydrazine (or its variants) is lacking. I've looked into it a bit but haven't found what I was looking for that I could translate into a config file.

And since current proposals favor methane production, there seems to be a shift towards RCS systems using the same propellant as the primary engine, which further served to blunt motivation for me to create configs for a hydrazine converter....

But, find me a recipe that works with what we have so far and I'll put it in. (preferably needs to work with what we can currently harvest in the game with CRP + Real ISRU. Otherwise any missing ingredients need to be added to what can be harvested or added as another conversion recipe )

[etheoma]

1 hour ago, Starwaster said:

Half of what you want is already there in the form of the Ammonia Oxidizer but a recipe for hydrazine (or its variants) is lacking. I've looked into it a bit but haven't found what I was looking for that I could translate into a config file.

And since current proposals favor methane production, there seems to be a shift towards RCS systems using the same propellant as the primary engine, which further served to blunt motivation for me to create configs for a hydrazine converter....

But, find me a recipe that works with what we have so far and I'll put it in. (preferably needs to work with what we can currently harvest in the game with CRP + Real ISRU. Otherwise any missing ingredients need to be added to what can be harvested or added as another conversion recipe )

At any rate what is the reactor called because I can't seem to find that now... ... ... sigh... I have been working around it with massive  solar pannels and setting up 2 polar bases so 6 months of the year on each works constantly.But it would be nice to have a reactor. Is it just modelled after a RTG?

[Starwaster]

10 hours ago, etheoma said:

At any rate what is the reactor called because I can't seem to find that now... ... ... sigh... I have been working around it with massive  solar pannels and setting up 2 polar bases so 6 months of the year on each works constantly.But it would be nice to have a reactor. Is it just modelled after a RTG?

It uses the RTG models, yes.

Its specs are modeled after a real world proposal called Kilopower and comes in 10kW and 40kW versions. Demonstrator prototypes have been built.

Unlike RTG designs it uses U-235 and has Stirling converters to produce power. Apparently, the difference between models is how many converters it has. (each one provides 10kWe)

BTW, its full name is... Kilopower Reactor Using Stirling TechnologY ... abbreviated KRUSTY. The demonstration was an experiment whose name abbreviated as DUFF. (some Simpsons references there...)

The reactor configs are still a work in progress.

 

Edit:

Aaaaand they're already talking about MegaPower reactors before we even have a fully functional flight tested KiloPower reactor...

Edited October 15, 2018 by Starwaster

[hypervelocity]

13 hours ago, Starwaster said:

But, find me a recipe that works with what we have so far and I'll put it in. (preferably needs to work with what we can currently harvest in the game with CRP + Real ISRU. Otherwise any missing ingredients need to be added to what can be harvested or added as another conversion recipe )

@Starwaster I believe there's a recipe in Page 8 discussing MMH+NTO. If I understand correctly, only addition required to CRP is NaCl (and this was a couple of years ago, so maybe its already added). They discussed the following flow: Chloralkali process > Hooker process > Olin Raschig process. 

[etheoma]

6 hours ago, Starwaster said:

It uses the RTG models, yes.

Its specs are modeled after a real world proposal called Kilopower and comes in 10kW and 40kW versions. Demonstrator prototypes have been built.

Unlike RTG designs it uses U-235 and has Stirling converters to produce power. Apparently, the difference between models is how many converters it has. (each one provides 10kWe)

BTW, its full name is... Kilopower Reactor Using Stirling TechnologY ... abbreviated KRUSTY. The demonstration was an experiment whose name abbreviated as DUFF. (some Simpsons references there...)

The reactor configs are still a work in progress.

 

Edit:

Aaaaand they're already talking about MegaPower reactors before we even have a fully functional flight tested KiloPower reactor...

Ah sorry it's just you called it a reactor which an RTG isn't really a Nuclear Reactor, it's powered by decay not a neutron flux. Same reason a molten salt heat battery isn't called a reactor because it's basically using stored energy the only difference with using decay is that you are using stored energy from a nuclear reactor. You can half blame the reason why an RTG isn't called a nuclear reactor on the fact that NASA doesn't want to call it a nuclear reactor because that would scare people.

Edited October 15, 2018 by etheoma

[KAO]

On 10/14/2018 at 7:03 PM, etheoma said:

That does sound about right, but personally I would be more interested in some form of mono propellant production than on new models tbh as that is the only thing it's REALLY missing. Even if it's the worst kind of mono propellant just anything would be great although I must admit I would proffer it to be Aerozine50 and NTO as the best mono prop engine in RO is the FASA Advanced Semini Lander Engine for long term bases as it doesn't have an ignition limit and has a vacume specific impluse of 311 seconds, but honestly anything would do.

If you download Kerbalism, its chemical processing plant part has "hydrazine production" which make monopropellant. If you go into the default.cfg the appropriate Real Fuels variables are in the comments for the corresponding section (except for hydrogen peroxide, you can just leave that as oxidizer).

[winged]

@Starwaster

https://github.com/KSP-RO/RealISRU/blob/master/GameData/RealISRU/Parts/HexAssembly/sabatier.cfg

Currently Sabatier unit produces not only methane and water but also incredible amount of electrical power: 300 kilowatts. With that powerful device you don't need any nuclear reactors or solar panels for your fuel production facility because sabatier unit does all of that for you.

Is sabatier reactor really supposed to generate any electricity? According to wikipedia it rather require energy to work:

Quote

"An optimized system of this design massing 50 kg "is projected to produce 1 kg/day of O2:CH4 propellant ... with a methane purity of 98+% while consuming 700 Watts of electrical power."

 

EDIT: nevermind, I saw you already removed that electricity production in your github branch.

Edited December 23, 2018 by winged

[Starwaster]

14 hours ago, winged said:

 

EDIT: nevermind, I saw you already removed that electricity production in your github branch.

Oh dammit, my changes are supposed to be going directly to KSP-RO branch.... and I'm sitting here wondering why they aren't

[robertordf]

Is this mod usable  or was abandoned?

For sure has a great potential to use with RO+RSS

[Starwaster]

5 hours ago, robertordf said:

Is this mod usable  or was abandoned?

For sure has a great potential to use with RO+RSS

It is worked on when time permits. AFAIK I'm the only one who is doing anything with it from a developmental standpoint. It definitely has usefulness as is but still requires work.

[hypervelocity]

what a nice surprise to read this @Starwaster! thank you for the time you are putting into this!

[pt1243]

This looks like an awesome mod! Might I ask, is there a reason why you can't extract water from Mars with a drill or something, like SpaceX is planning? Sorry if this is a stupid question - I am just curious.

[Starwaster]

7 hours ago, pt1243 said:

This looks like an awesome mod! Might I ask, is there a reason why you can't extract water from Mars with a drill or something, like SpaceX is planning? Sorry if this is a stupid question - I am just curious.

Use the drill with the blue trim.

I don't know how SpaceX is going to do it IRL, but for serious  resource harvesting (anything but sample taking) it will probably require something like this:

Note the wheels used for locomotion towards the center, and the two drums on the front and back. Those are counter rotating because it won't be able to rely on mass to stabilize itself. When the drums are full it returns them to a processing station and then goes out for more. Basically it would be more of a strip mining operation than a drilling operation. 

(but for purposes of abstraction, we just use a drill)

[pt1243]

6 hours ago, Starwaster said:

Use the drill with the blue trim.

I don't know how SpaceX is going to do it IRL, but for serious  resource harvesting (anything but sample taking) it will probably require something like this:

Note the wheels used for locomotion towards the center, and the two drums on the front and back. Those are counter rotating because it won't be able to rely on mass to stabilize itself. When the drums are full it returns them to a processing station and then goes out for more. Basically it would be more of a strip mining operation than a drilling operation. 

(but for purposes of abstraction, we just use a drill)

Thanks for the help! I will give it a try.