The Ultimate Jool 5 Challenge - 1.0 to 1.3

[dozerman]

Sorry if this has been asked before; I looked but didn't see any indication that it was. Would this count as clipping of functional parts, since the girder is mostly empty space?

[dozerman]

8 minutes ago, dozerman said:

Sorry if this has been asked before; I looked but didn't see any indication that it was. Would this count as clipping of functional parts, since the girder is mostly empty space?

Can't figure out how to upload pics. It's a series of four batteries inside of a girder. They aren't clipping themselves, but they are *technically* clipped inside of the girder.

[HarrySeaward]

 

 

 

Edited December 30, 2016 by HarrySeaward

[HarrySeaward]

Level 2.  Stock.  IRSU.

Nothing too special.  Just a rite of passage.

 

[smotheredrun]

@sdj64, I have some specific questions regarding this challenge after doing some search bar voodoo: 

I looked at your list of permitted mods and non permitted mods.  I understand that if I am doing a "Modded" Jool 5 Challenge, I am not permitted to use either B9 Aerospace or KSPI-E?  I ask, as I would like to know if the use of a handful or less of specific parts could be permitted? 

Specifically regarding KSPI-E, the folding deployable radiator shown in this picture:

https://camo.githubusercontent.com/ee7f14b6f8c77ee313c59cd9b39cac104adf349a/687474703a2f2f692e696d6775722e636f6d2f76646d4a6778562e706e67

 Why?  I like how it looks.  I have tested installing the whole mod and then deleting every part from the Part folder, leaving just this part.  The radiator still works when doing this.  I like the stock rads in some builds, but the ship I am envisioning for this challenge has a bit of a different look.

With respect to B9, would the use of the various 5-way RCS blocks be permitted? (they look" cool" to me, and keep part counts down).  Again, I have used the same process as above to have only those parts installed in the past.

Also for clarification, Near Future Propulsion is still out?  I haven't used it much except for the lithium fueled engines (Colossus) for making theoretical Duna and Eve mission ships. Those have yet to do much other than sit in LKO in a few Sandbox saves.

 

 

[sdj64]

@HarrySeaward Congratulations, you have completed the Jool 5 Challenge on Level 2!  I like your unique use of SRBs on the Vall and Tylo landers.  Your mission reminded me of 0.90 with its huge asparagus launch and rocket fuel tanks on the nuclear engines.

 

On 12/29/2016 at 5:48 PM, dozerman said:

Can't figure out how to upload pics. It's a series of four batteries inside of a girder. They aren't clipping themselves, but they are *technically* clipped inside of the girder.

That's fine, the girder is a structural part.

On 12/30/2016 at 2:07 PM, smotheredrun said:

@sdj64, I have some specific questions regarding this challenge after doing some search bar voodoo: 

I looked at your list of permitted mods and non permitted mods.  I understand that if I am doing a "Modded" Jool 5 Challenge, I am not permitted to use either B9 Aerospace or KSPI-E?  I ask, as I would like to know if the use of a handful or less of specific parts could be permitted? 

Specifically regarding KSPI-E, the folding deployable radiator shown in this picture:

https://camo.githubusercontent.com/ee7f14b6f8c77ee313c59cd9b39cac104adf349a/687474703a2f2f692e696d6775722e636f6d2f76646d4a6778562e706e67

 Why?  I like how it looks.  I have tested installing the whole mod and then deleting every part from the Part folder, leaving just this part.  The radiator still works when doing this.  I like the stock rads in some builds, but the ship I am envisioning for this challenge has a bit of a different look.

With respect to B9, would the use of the various 5-way RCS blocks be permitted? (they look" cool" to me, and keep part counts down).  Again, I have used the same process as above to have only those parts installed in the past.

Also for clarification, Near Future Propulsion is still out?  I haven't used it much except for the lithium fueled engines (Colossus) for making theoretical Duna and Eve mission ships. Those have yet to do much other than sit in LKO in a few Sandbox saves.

As a general rule, it's best to avoid picking and choosing specific parts to ban or un-ban.  If you really like the look of the KSPI radiator, can you change its gameplay statistics to match the small stock radiator (or whatever one is closest in size)?

Many mods other than B9 have 5-way RCS.  MRS has normal size ones, SpaceY has big ones, and I'm sure many others that I'm forgetting right now.  If the B9 RCS thrusters have equal or lesser ISP than stock ones, you can use them.

NF Propulsion is still out, yes.

[smotheredrun]

On 01/02/2017 at 10:13 AM, sdj64 said:

Important stuff

 

Ok thanks.  That all makes sense.  I'll start making those adjustments as soon as I get my laptop talking to its second HDD

[IncongruousGoat]

I return, again! This time with a grand tour in tow. Nominally, this is a submission to the Ultimate Challenge, but since it also conforms to the rules of the Jool 5 grand tour, I thought I would submit it here as well.

Mission thread is here:

If there's anything anyone would like clarified, please ask.

[septemberWaves]

I'm making a new attempt at the challenge, which this time I plan to finish. The thread is here.

[septemberWaves]

Update: I launched the Laythe plane to the Astarael III mothership.

[sdj64]

@IncongruousGoat Congratulations, you have completed the Jool 5 Challenge on level 1 with a grand tour!  The functions of the different parts and the locations they were sent to seemed very well thought out.  I liked the idea of putting separate transfer stages on the individual landers.  Overall a very efficient mission.

[septemberWaves]

Update: I launched a refueler vehicle to refuel my Laythe plane.

[Jetski]

@sdj64 did you miss my submission maybe?  I know it was the bottom of a page and had a question posted right after  

 

I know it takes forever to pick through everything, just wondering if I'm legit

[sdj64]

@Jetski Sorry, I must have lost track of your submission.  It does indeed qualify.  Congratulations, you have completed the Jool 5 Challenge on Level 1 with a grand tour!  Your mission looked very lightweight for a grand tour, especially without nuclear engines used.  I like the efficiency of just bolting some extra fuel tanks to a pile of landers rather than using a big mothership.  Also I've never seen a grand tour visit the outer planets in that order but it seemed to work out well, using the efficient ion lander and sending the LF lander straight to Duna for the final landings.

 

[smotheredrun]

On 6/1/2015 at 9:51 AM, sdj64 said:

 

  Hide contents

 

JEBEDIAH'S LEVEL: collect as much Science as possible!  Your score is the number of science points from the Jool system only, returned to Kerbin (not transmitted).  Only stock experiments count for this!  To score, take pictures of the science screen(s) when you recover the data.  Otherwise, the rules are the same as 3rd Level.

 

en contents

 

Level 1:

Stratzenblitz75 (1.0.2, First completion in 1.0, video submission, near-death reentry, no docking!)

E805BzRo (1.0.4, Laythe plane, Tylo lander with top stage that landed on all the other moons, big nuclear powered mothership)

JebsDead (1.0.4, UFO styled mothership, Laythe plane, 2 crew, video submission)

IncongruousGoat (1.0.5, 3 crew on the mission, tall Laythe lander, much asparagus, career mode without all tech researched)

Jetski (1.0.5, modular mothership, one command pod shares all landers, going for the Ultimate Challenge but left early to do this one)

EvermoreAlpaca (1.0.5, Grand Tour!, single launch, no refueling, crazy ion landers with enormous battery capacity, lauched on a plane, whole thing is recovered back to Kerbin except the Eve lander, video submission)

JacobJHC (1.0.5, tiny asparagus, mothership with asparagus tanks, bonus Minmus visit, video submission)

---Low Mass Sub-challenge Entries:

1. Nefrums (13.485 tons, 1.0.4, high orbits for efficiency, multiple gravity assists, tiny fuel tanks and just enough to make it home, battery powered ion lander that can land on Vall, plane style launch from runway)

2. Mesklin (18.821 tons, 1.0.4, whole craft starts under a fairing, battery powered ion lander, purposeful overheating to shed weight on Kerbin ascent, plane style launch from runway)

3. Nefrums (19.996 tons, 1.0.4, ion scooter lander, great use of high elliptical orbits to minimize dV requirement, plane style launch from runway)

4. astrobond (23.925 tons, 1.0.4, tiny tiny landers and lots of gravity assists, plane style launch from runway)

Level 2:

iLikeRovers (1.0.4, efficient specialized landers, 4 kerbals on mission and 2 per landing, awesome .gif animations of landing and staging)

Foxster (1.0.4, single lander for all moons, huge mothership and nuclear tug)

Starhawk (1.0.4?, 3 kerbals on all landings, plane for Laythe, lander with outer stage for Tylo and core that landed on the smaller moons, long mothership with ring of nuclear engines, creative refueling mission prompted rule #7 clarification)

Claw (1.0.5, brought rovers and a boat for Laythe, ground circumnavigations of each moon!, nuclear transfer tug/lander combination for small moons)

Level 3:

nigelvn (1.0.4, plane for Laythe, two hulled mothership with the landers in between, no aerobraking to enter the Jool system or on return to Kerbin, multiple drop pods for returning the crew)

steveroof (1.0.5, small mothership, multi-use transfer stage, tiny lander with Tylo and Laythe boosters, precarious (hilarious) crew switching, video submission)

Byronacles (1.0.5, simple approach, universal lander top stage, Tylo and Laythe stages, unique style with long thin external tanks on most craft)

Typrax (1.0.5, separate disposable lander for each moon, overcame and recorded several problems during the mission, used an RTG as a structural element)

Thalamask (1.0.5, small efficient landers, Tylo stage had to be delivered before going to Laythe, then back to Tylo, top stage doubles as small moon lander, refueling mission required)

Jeb's Level:

Nefrums (45513 science!, 1.0.2, huge ship, two launches from Kerbin, multple biome landings, rover for Tylo, plane for Laythe)

sdj64 (11473 science, 1.0.4-1.0.5, Grand Tour!, single launch, no refueling, ion and LF landers with disposable stages for Laythe and Tylo, long skinny mothership with lots of drop tanks, big heatshield made from a fairing)

Draradech (16623 science, 1.0.5, enormous single-stage reusable mothership, high mass but low part count craft, daring rescue intercepting ship on Kerbin escape trajectory)

ISRU Level:

EvermoreAlpaca (1.0.4, Grand Tour!, separate Eve lander, huge SSTO mining ship that used nuclear and Mammoth engines, dockable rovers for exploring on planet surfaces, video submission)

cubinator (1.0.4, Almost a grand tour! Every planet except Eve, four crew SSTO with 5300 delta V, no landing gear, no parts discarded)

astrobond (1.0.4, Almost a grand tour! Every planet except Eve, big stylish ship with one engine, two crew, no parts discarded)

EBAO (1.0.4, brought a lab, 5909 science, ion scanning satellite, USI Life Support, many videos, no parts discarded)

vasco (1.0.4, 59661 science, small-ish all-in-one ISRU ship, 3 crew, landed in all the biomes)

Mikki (1.0.5, large mothership with lander cage, separate ISRU lander, 3 crew landed on Tylo and Laythe and 2 on the other moons, scanning satellite and asteroid tug, career mode, 3304 science)

astrobond (1.0.5, compact SSTO mining ship with 4 crew, 7855 science, no parts discarded)

Racescort666 (1.0.5, enormous complicated mothership with two miners, 6 Kerbal crew, "tour pod" that landed on all moons)

rudi1291 (1.0.5, massive mothership, Pol orbit station left behind, only mined on Pol with 30+ trips, 3 Kerbal crew with 2 landing on each moon)

 

 

@sdj64 Regarding stock experiments:  Would it be acceptable to use say the Universal Storage or other versions of the stock experiments?

[septemberWaves]

15 hours ago, smotheredrun said:

Would it be acceptable to use say the Universal Storage or other versions of the stock experiments?

I've always been under the impression that that wouldn't count, because the more compact variants of the stock experiments are easier (less massive and more conveniently shaped) to send to places and thus would lead to imbalancing the scoring. Obviously I don't know for certain whether sdj64 would agree with this sentiment, but I think it's fairly safe to assume that only the stock forms of the stock science equipment would be allowed.

[sdj64]

On 1/29/2017 at 11:43 AM, smotheredrun said:

@sdj64 Regarding stock experiments:  Would it be acceptable to use say the Universal Storage or other versions of the stock experiments?

Yes, if the mod it comes in is allowed and it's the exact same as the stock experiment.  If you return both a Universal Storage mystery goo and a stock one and both count for full science points, it would not be allowed.

On 1/30/2017 at 3:10 AM, eloquentJane said:

I've always been under the impression that that wouldn't count, because the more compact variants of the stock experiments are easier (less massive and more conveniently shaped) to send to places and thus would lead to imbalancing the scoring. Obviously I don't know for certain whether sdj64 would agree with this sentiment, but I think it's fairly safe to assume that only the stock forms of the stock science equipment would be allowed.

I might have said this before 1.2.  I think that they are the same mass.  I only briefly used Universal Storage, but afaik the wedge hub is about the same size and function as a stock service bay stuffed with experiments.

[smotheredrun]

I believe the difference in mass is somewhere between 0.001 to 0.01 T.  It's a big range relatively speaking, but on a 100T ship or so that won't make too much of adifference

[AeroGav]

Alright, it's finally over.   My Jool 5 mission is home at last 

Most people seem to go with rockets carrying space planes,  i did it the other way round, since i had more experience of building planes than rockets.   It's a fairly large airplane, we put minimum of 5 kerbals on the surface of each body (actually the lowest number was 6 on tylo, but jeb never left the cupola as he was needed to keep it upright) and i included a rover and a lounge area made with kerbal furniture parts.  The lounge was successful, the rover not so much.

We used ISRU and the space plane had drop tanks and could shed its airbreathers, which enabled me to  do the whole thing single launch.   We even avoided backtracking and much in the way of gravity assists (just a couple of tylo passes when capturing jool) - and there was only one docking manuver in the whole mission.  Just as well, as i'm no good at docking or gravity assists.

 I struggle with orbital maneuvers, and had to ask for help a few times.       

Edited February 3, 2017 by AeroGav

[sdj64]

@AeroGav Congratulations, you have completed the Jool 5 Challenge on Level 3!  It was amazing how close you were to not making it so many times over the mission, and still you pulled through.  That has to be the most underpowered (in TWR) spaceplane I've ever seen make orbit.  And it was able to do it again on Laythe with even fewer engines!  It looks like you learned a lot from the mission both in piloting and design considerations.

Just a note, I'm giving your entry a STOCK tag because the only mod parts were purely decorative.  That lounge was a nice touch, I don't think anyone has done a decorated interior for this challenge.  It might have contributed to your drag troubles, there's a common bug with cargo bays not always properly shielding parts.

Edited February 6, 2017 by sdj64

[KAL 9000]

May I nominate @Kuzzter for this? Check out Kerbfleet: A Jool Odyssey for extensive documentation.

[AeroGav]

15 hours ago, sdj64 said:

@AeroGav   It was amazing how close you were to not making it so many times over the mission, and still you pulled through.  

The thin delta V margins were a result of bad orbital manoeuvring mostly, or poor mission planning.  I'm not good at stuff that happens out of an atmosphere. When I finally found a combo of nodes that worked, I just went with it, even if I only landed with 20 fuel left and could have flown it more efficiently. Hence burning 3300dV going from orbit of Laythe to the surface of Vall.  I didn't need to land the mother ship on Vall but after doing so,  I realised it was so much fun  driving it across the surface I didn't want to reload.  With ISRU, mistakes made on the last leg don't penalize the next !

Worst bit was tylo lander.  That thing had so little fuel.  But if I made it any bigger it would just topple over!

That said, there was a fair bit of F5/F9

number of times burned up in Jool atmosphere (while finding the lowest possible aerobrake height) 3

number of times burned up aerobraking on Laythe 4

number of times burned up aerobraking on Kerbin 2

Crashed taking off from Vall  10 times

Crashed landing on Tylo >10 times

Kraken blew up ship after using toilet - twice

Jeb killed by rover - twice

Toppled over after landing on Tylo >10 times

Landed on the Beach on Kerbin - twice

Going to orbit, re-entering and landing were accomplished first time on both Laythe and Kerbin.

 

[sdj64]

38 minutes ago, KAL 9000 said:

May I nominate @Kuzzter for this? Check out Kerbfleet: A Jool Odyssey for extensive documentation.

I'm a fan of his story too, but he isn't finished yet!

[DerekL1963]

2 hours ago, AeroGav said:

That said, there was a fair bit of F5/F9

I think F5/F9 is par for the course on a Jool-5 run...  there's just so many chances for things to go bad.   Even though I did a dress rehearsal in the sandbox, and thought I'd nailed all the potential pitfalls, two minor changes still lead to F5/F9 on two of the landings.  (And the first only rescued me from the worst of it...  the problem has occurred and not been caught before I'd saved.)

[Guest]

19 hours ago, sdj64 said:

I'm a fan of his story too, but he isn't finished yet!

I would be by now, if I hadn't signed up attempt the "simultaneous Battle of Kerbin with realistic signal delay" level!