[1.8.1] ETT - Engineering Tech Tree - May 4, 2020

[Mikkel1107]

So i am a bit confused, is the new version of ETT up and working? If that is not the case. How long is it development wise? Is the new ETT going to work on KSP Version 1.9? And is it possible to run the old version of ETT on KSP version 1.9. (If the new version of ETT is not working yet).

[linuxgurugamer]

1 hour ago, Mikkel1107 said:

So i am a bit confused, is the new version of ETT up and working? If that is not the case. How long is it development wise? Is the new ETT going to work on KSP Version 1.9? And is it possible to run the old version of ETT on KSP version 1.9. (If the new version of ETT is not working yet).

It's in development, sounds like it is nearing a release.  Yes, it will work on 1.9

You can run the old version, as long as you have the current Yongtech Tech Tree mod installed.  But it is out of date, and there may be some oddly placed items

[r3_141592654]

This is a fantastic mod!! Just a quick question. I have many nodes empty. I'm wondering if the list of "Included but untested for 1.8" are things that I need to download to fill it out more, or if the empty nodes are awaiting your development. I'm not sure if I need to download the list of mods or just wait patiently.

 

Thanks

[Probus]

On 4/3/2020 at 3:19 PM, r3_141592654 said:

This is a fantastic mod!! Just a quick question. I have many nodes empty. I'm wondering if the list of "Included but untested for 1.8" are things that I need to download to fill it out more, or if the empty nodes are awaiting your development. I'm not sure if I need to download the list of mods or just wait patiently.

 

Thanks

I didn't answer until today, because there was a slight hope of getting it out this past weekend.  It is really close to a beta release.

[Probus]

If anyone knows a slick way of doing this:

 

[Joshiewowa]

6 hours ago, Probus said:

If anyone knows a slick way of doing this:

 

Honestly?  Doing it slick is nice, but maybe just ask the user on boot or on creation of a savefile?  Glad this is back, I'm setting up the modlist for my next career run, might add this as my tech tree mod.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Joshiewowa

[Probus]

On 4/6/2020 at 8:08 PM, Joshiewowa said:

Honestly?  Doing it slick is nice, but maybe just ask the user on boot or on creation of a savefile?  Glad this is back, I'm setting up the modlist for my next career run, might add this as my tech tree mod.

You may have a point @Joshiewowa.

I wanted to give an update as to the status of ETT.  I am in the process of balancing it right now. To put it in perspective, here are some stats:

Tree	Nodes	Tier 1	Tier 2 (95+)	Tier 3 (550+)	Total Cost
Stock	66	26	25	15	17028
ETT	207	87	64	56	62775

Done

• Expand Branches - 1.825 Tanks, Radial Parts, Cargo
• Separate Engines From Tanks
• Separate Engines by Function (Booster, Vacuum Optimized, Multi-Functional)
• Place New Parts

To Do/In Process

• Balance Campaign Start
• Update Module Manager Files (for procedural parts)
• Update Aviation
• Fix Bugs
• Not Catch Cornavirus

I have placed all the parts for my first release and I am balancing the campaign start.  Tripling the number of nodes means reducing the cost of each. The start seems too easy right now so I am going to try reseting some of the Tier 1 nodes back to the previous ETT node costs.  Here is a sneak peak at where the tree is currently:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/r3xxg53mo9fiack/EngTechTree.cfg?dl=0

Happy Easter!

[Corax]

I'm looking forward to being able to use ETT again, I have fond memories of using it back in... 1.4, I think? Although I also remember it as having been quite the mess back then, with needing tons of custom MM patches to make sense of it ; )

Thank you for taking on this Herculean task of bringing it back up to speed.

 

2 hours ago, Probus said:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/r3xxg53mo9fiack/EngTechTree.cfg?dl=0

Just an aside:

If you want to distribute a file, replace the ?dl=0 with ?dl=1, this way the download starts immediately, without the need to go through yet another page.

[Probus]

19 minutes ago, Corax said:

If you want to distribute a file, replace the ?dl=0 with ?dl=1, this way the download starts immediately, without the need to go through yet another page.

I didn't know that.  Thanks!

[Probus]

On 4/12/2020 at 7:44 AM, Probus said:

I have placed all the parts for my first release and I am balancing the campaign start.  Tripling the number of nodes means reducing the cost of each. The start seems too easy right now so I am going to try reseting some of the Tier 1 nodes back to the previous ETT node costs.  Here is a sneak peak at where the tree is currently:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/r3xxg53mo9fiack/EngTechTree.cfg?dl=0

Definite start/tier 1 needs to be put back to the way it was in 2018...  Anyway, here is a list of parts mods that have been integrated so far:

AIES by @carmics
Alcubierre Warp Drive @RoverDude
AmpYear Power Manager by @JPLRepo
Bluedog Design Bureau by @CobaltWolf
Breaking Ground by @Squad
Civilian Population by @linuxgurugamer
Configurable Containers by @allista
DaMichel's AeroRadial (DAR) by @DaMichel
DaMichel's Cargo Bays (DCB) by @DaMichel
Dang It! Continued by @linuxgurugamer
DMagic Orbital Science by @DMagic
Docking Cam (KURS) by @DennyTX
Dynamic Battery Storage by @ChrisAdderly
Heat Control by @Nertea
Indicator Lights by @Snark
IXS Warpship @Denko666
JX2Antenna by @Snark
KAS by @KospY
Kerbal Planetary Base Systems by @Nils277
KIS (Kerbal Inventory System) by @KospY
Landertron by @XanderTek
Launch Escape System (Pebkac) by @Kurld
Making History by @Squad
MechJeb (still needs a bit of MM work) @sarbian
Missing History by @Snark
Modular Launch Pads by @AlphaMensae
Modular Rocket Systems (MRS) LITE by @NecroBones
Near Future: Electrical by @Nertea
Near Future: Propulsion by @Nertea
Near Future: Solar by @Nertea
OctoSat Continued by @linuxgurugamer
PicoPort by @steedcrugeon
PicoPort Shielded by @zer0Kerbal
Procedural Fairings by @e-dog
Rational Resources by @JadeOfMaar
RealChute Parachute System by @stupid_chris
RLA Reborn by @linuxgurugamer
ScanSat by @DMagic
Smart Parts by @linuxgurugamer
Soviet Engines by @BobCat
Space Docks Redocked by @Denko666
Stockalike Station Parts Expansion Redux by @Nertea
Surface Mounted Lights by @Why485
Tac Self Destruct Continued by @linuxgurugamer
Tokamak Refurbished Parts by @linuxgurugamer
Tracking Lights by @Trollception
VaporVent by @linuxgurugamer

EDIT: BTW, any volunteers for integrating Aviation part packs?

 

Edited April 15, 2020 by Probus
Aviation update

[Probus]

Almost there...  Fixing all the module manager patches with more patches... one by one...  Tedious but required.  Making sure all the tech tree connector arrows can be clearly followed is also tedious but required.

• Completely reorganized the Electric propulsion branch to better match Near Future Propulsion.  This messed up my Interstellar placement so that will need to be updated after the first re-release.
• Moved ISRU into the space station/colonization area.
• Waffled.  Had a nervous breakdown. Waffled some more.

So, it will be soon (not in the biblical sense ).  Really close.

Didn't have any Aviation part pack volunteers. So that branch will still be dated.  Even though I work daily in the aviation avionics industry, I am a really bad pilot, so testing that branch is tricky for me.  Maybe if I load an autopilot mod it would help. 

 

Anyway, I love constructive feedback.  If you use the mod, don't hesitate to tell me about any bugs or improvements you may find.  Just PM me the really embarrassing ones. 

[dtoxic]

@Probus ett link on spacedock is not working for some reason

[Cerebrito Gaming]

Spacedock download broke.

[Probus]

Thanks!

[Probus]

The Spacedock download appears to be a Spacedock problem.  Here is a temporary copy:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m7c1pw83jqssmki/ETT20200504.zip?dl=0

[Corax]

3 hours ago, Probus said:

The Spacedock download appears to be a Spacedock problem.  Here is a temporary copy:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m7c1pw83jqssmki/ETT20200504.zip?dl=0

PSA: For files you want people to download from Dropbox, as opposed to be directed to another web page where you can then download the file, replace the ?dl=0 with ?dl=1, like so

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m7c1pw83jqssmki/ETT20200504.zip?dl=1

That way, the download starts immediately, without having to allow any cookies, JavaScript, or other shenanigans.

hth

[Probus]

You just told me that @Corax.  What is up with my memory? Thanks again. 2nd time's the charm (I hope).  I'll fix it on the OP also.

[Corax]

24 minutes ago, Probus said:

You just told me that @Corax.  What is up with my memory? Thanks again. 2nd time's the charm (I hope).  I'll fix it on the OP also.

NP, I only hope you don't think I'm picking on you... I didn't even remember that I told you already, nor did I check at least a few posts back (as I should have) to see that I did. It's just something that triggers me whenever I see it...

[Probus]

I've been trying to push the envelope on what can be done in the tech tree.  Its made it look way too complicated so I thought I'd see what could be done to clarify things.  I've been trying a lot of different experiments.  I've put red stars besides some of the experiments.  This is not close to being done but I thought I would include a teaser for some feedback.  See below:

Ideas tried so far:

1. Color icons by tech branch.
2. Adjust the size of the icon to make the part look bigger as the size of the parts get bigger.
3. Use multicolored icons instead of white.
4. Create an icon using KSP Craft and Kronal Vessel Viewer to capture a picture.
5. Use real blueprints to sketch an icon of an aircraft or rocket.
6. Try large unconnected tech tree nodes as banners around a branch e.g. "Jet Engines".
7. Use icons larger that the 32x32 standard.

I love feedback if you have any ideas.  The picture above should serve as a good "Before" picture of the ETT.

[markinturamb]

First I want to, as man others here, thank you for this great mod. I've been in a very long break from KSP and seeing it being updated again is bringing me back.

• Some feedback regarding items 4 and 5 (icons):

I think an icon is supposed to pass information in a very simple and minimalist way. We're supposed to quickly glance at the image of the nodes and immediately know what it does. For that, the silhouette of the image must be perfectly clear (ideally, we should be able to tell what that part is just by looking at the silhouette) so if you go down that road, I'd say you'll need to choose carefully the angles of the pictures you want to capture. Also, because all that, I'd advise against using complex parts, like the bottom one with a star in your picture, it's hard for me to tell what it is and what it does, while the one near the "Jet Engines" is easier, since it's more recognizable. Both regarding the silhouette, and the colours, which brings me to the next point:

• Regarding items 1, 3 and 6 (colours):

Like I said, the bottom star is a complex shape, it seems to have too much going on for such a small image. I'd stick to simpler parts to choose as an icon if you want to use pictures instead of flat colours.

I like the idea of different colours on the icons according to the function, along with the banners to describe what those colours are. Another idea, but I don't know if it's possible: Change the background colour instead of the icons (maybe make a giant icon, paint it white, give it some transparency, and adjust it behind all the Aviation nodes for example? And put a banner named "Aviation" there somewhere so you'll know immediately that everything white is related to that?)

• Regarding size:

I also like the idea of varying size according to part size, again it makes it easy to understand what that node will do with a glance. It'll be hard to know how the entire tech tree will look like before applying all that I guess, it could end up huge.. but that's what the zoom is for right? 

 

Hope I managed to make myself clear on this brainstorming! Thanks again for the great work

[ev0]

On 6/9/2020 at 9:47 AM, Probus said:

I've been trying to push the envelope on what can be done in the tech tree.  <snip>

Are these changes done through a plugin dll, or through a Module Manager config file?

[Probus]

On 6/11/2020 at 7:30 AM, markinturamb said:

I like the idea of different colours on the icons according to the function, along with the banners to describe what those colours are. Another idea, but I don't know if it's possible: Change the background colour instead of the icons (maybe make a giant icon, paint it white, give it some transparency, and adjust it behind all the Aviation nodes for example? And put a banner named "Aviation" there somewhere so you'll know immediately that everything white is related to that?)

Hope I managed to make myself clear on this brainstorming! Thanks again for the great work

Thanks for the feedback @markinturamb!  I really appreciate it.  I just re-read your banner comment and I understand what you mean.  That is a great idea.  I'm going to try it out and see what it looks like.

On 6/14/2020 at 1:22 AM, ev0 said:

Are these changes done through a plugin dll, or through a Module Manager config file?

I'm making these changes using the tech tree editor for convenience.  All of them could be done using module manager I believe.

[Dr. Cattman423]

Can you change the BDB integration so it matches better with the progression of the actual US space program? The way it's currently integrated I can make a Titan II Missile before I can make a Redstone Rocket, also in order to unlock the engine for the Redstone Rocket and Mercury deorbital engine you have to upgrade the RnD building yet you have almost everything for a full fledged Gemini mission before the RnD upgrade.

Other than my issues with BDB I am loving the experience and ability to select where I focus my science points and the actual progression feel it has over the stock tech tree and CTT.

[Hallebumba]

I love this Techtree! I played with it some time ago and want to start a new playthrough on 1.9. I tried using the 1.8 version of ETT but sadly it didn't work so i wanted to ask if you know when or if there will be a 1.9 release (with 1.10 already being out). I hope i didn't miss any info and defintly don't want to stress you, i can only imagine how much work this must be. 

On your Ideas from earlier:
I think if you are able to color code different branches with the icons that would be helpful. I am with markinturamb on the simplicity of the icons and would say keep them stock(-ish) and well maybe change the color. If you are able to change the Node color itself it could be nice to seperate aircraft and rocketry with that. i.e.: Jet Engines are Black bg with green icon, Wings are Black bg with yellow icon, SRBs are white bg with red icon and Liquid engines white bg with blue icon and so on.
And bigger nodes for bigger parts is maybe an idea but i would vary the sizes to much.

I hope everything is sort of understandable, i am not a native speaker and rarely ever post in forums, so sorry for the textlayout and languagemistakes i guess^^
looking forward to grind through the ETT once again!

[OwariTY]

Hi. I have a question: how you guys reach the orbit with 30% of science or less? You need atleast two engine nodes ( for the big engine with gimbal and the second one for the vacuum engine if you are playing with bluedogs parts) and other for tanks and decouplers. However, even walking through the ksc i can't get enough science. 

Of course, this is just a question and not a problem with the best tech tree ever made.