PS4 Announcement Discussion

[Nori]

SQUAD is a company based in Mexico; many of its employees are Mexican, and the cost of living in Mexico is often significantly less (frequently up to 2x less, at least according to these figures). Plus, it's not as though they are necessarily paying everyone United States-level middle class nuclear family salaries, even with their significant earnings - most companies earn far more than enough to pay their employees more than they do. You say 6 million dollars, but if we go by the cheapest Steam prices of around 20$ as you say, as our "average", then 500,000 sales equates to $10,000,000 USD, which leaves four million dollars in surplus even if every employee were paid 100K yearly.

The surplus goes up tremendously if the figure for sales increases. There is a thread which references a SteamSpy account of Steam ownership numbers (the data is now censored at the behest of SQUAD), and the amount corroborated there is in the range of 1 million sales, which likely doesn't include private profiles, and of course doesn't include the KSP store, so the number is probably even higher. And an interview with Calisker from last year gives a figure close to 3 million sales if you count their assertion that the forums represent 5% of the total playerbase, given our current 140-ish thousand strong member count. That's tens of millions of dollars. 50 million dollars would be enough to buy minor mansions for each permanent team member.

It's fine if people make mints, but SQUAD is a company that existed before KSP began. Most of these people are likely being paid salaries of some sort, not just getting a certain cut of the profits. Most entry level software engineers make significantly less than 100K/year, and positions other than software engineer - 3D artists, sound designers, IT people, etc - can make significantly less. And it's not as though companies can't pay some people short, while the majority goes to a few.

I was wondering why I couldn't find them on Steamspy. I was looking up a game I like (Star Ruler 2) and wanted to compare numbers but KSP wasn't up there...

[GusTurbo]

I can't help but feel like all the bitter veterans here are going to eat there words down the line.

Just like we had to eat our words when we all expressed concerns that the time table for 1.0 was too ambitious and that they wouldn't be able to iron out the bugs in time.

Oh wait...

[DoToH]

KSP for PS4 is great news? I couldn't care less. I don't own a PS4 and don't plan to buy one. Anyway, I wish good luck to Squad or whoever will do the port.

Matters of my concern are:

• One suggestion: devnotes no longer deserve to be called 'devnotes'. Should I suggest 'Marketnotes'?
  
• Two questions: will memory leaks, poor aero balance and harmless reentry heat be ported to PS4 too? Will PC players get proper fixes, balance passes and serious testing before the PS4 KSP launch date (2016)?
  
• 
  

[Arsonik]

The point of "talking about dollar amounts" is to raise the issue that, while people are quick to congratulate SQUAD for undertaking any move that might increase their profit channels in hopes that this will somehow lead to better game development, SQUAD is already sitting on fat stacks of money; yet the "more money, better development" logic seemingly has yet to pan out.

It took over two years for SQUAD to implement a resource model that is basically a stripped-down Kethane in not as many words, when the old resources model was supposedly scrapped in part for being "grindy" like Kethane. Career Mode has languished for a year while waiting for, among other things perhaps, an aerodynamics overhaul, which in turn was waiting for new spaceplane parts. They could have had new spaceplane parts while they had B9 on the team, but he mysteriously disappeared from the roster with not a word (although I'm absolutely not implying that we should pressure B9 to spill the beans). It's been over two years since the first release of FAR. And multiple modded career balances have sprung up in the year that Career has been out.

SQUAD has had the money, the resources, the time, and the people - both on their team and available, even bursting from the seams of the community with enthusiasm to develop for KSP. That they have not used their fairly staggering quantities of cash to hand over some of the so-terrible responsibilities of development to some of the lovely, proven skills among the mod crew, and have let go of most of the hires they have made without taking on much in the way of significant gameplay contribution, makes this whole business about contracting a port of KSP to an entirely new platform to a shady, unproven company seem very dubious to me at best.

And, hey, what can I say. I'm still waiting for that space program tycoon game.

I respect your position and I agree on some of your points. But at the end of the day this is a completed game. It has 2 goal oriented game modes and a sandbox. Full mod support. Unique gameplay features not found in any other game. And most of us that have been around got it for around the same price as a large coffee or a pack of smokes. So while I understand your position about SQUAD not hiring more people (ECHO that in fact), I don't think its fair to say your still waiting for a space tycoon game. It's right here. It might not be exactly as it was envisioned in the beginning, but it is one of the greatest games of our time none the less (IMO). I personally have played more then 1500 hours. And many of the bugs that we are so critical of as experienced long term players, new players won't even notice. I am 100% satisfied with the product I have. I will continue to ask for further development and be critical of the dev process, but we really are not owed anything at this point. and I feel like everyone bashing SQUAD for this decision is really unfair to them. This is a great accomplishment for SQUAD. Partnership with SONY could be a huge thing for them. Remember, SQUAD is a subsidiary of a MARKETING COMPANY. They are not a games development studio first and foremost. I feel like I have a lot more to say about the topic but I'm just gonna put this thread down. Its really getting on my nerves. Maybe I'm just a SQUAD fanboy now. IDK. IDC.

- - - Updated - - -

Horrible, horrible, horrible news. I'm losing faith in Squad. This always happens with indie games.

1. Seems like a cool game!
   
2. This game is amazing! My favourite game of all time!
   
3. Oh, they're changing some stuff. It's okay but I'll deal with it.
   
4. Why! Why? Why change things that are already perfectly fine?
   
5. It's all lost! The game isn't good anymore.
   

It happened to Minecraft. I thought it would never happen to KSP because it seemed so perfect. This is a joke.

#PCmasterrace

What is all lost? What is changed?

#Hashtags#Are#Stupid#Teenage#Trends#Go#Back#To#Twitter#Supporting#Arguement#Or#GTFO!!!!

Just like we had to eat our words when we all expressed concerns that the time table for 1.0 was too ambitious and that they wouldn't be able to iron out the bugs in time.

Oh wait...

There are literally THREE (3) bugs people have been complaining about.

HOLY CRAP!!! Someone better call the BBB! I've NEVER experienced THREE bugs in the gold release of a game before!

Ok. That isn't entirely true. There are 3 NEW bugs that I am aware of. But seriously get a grip. This game isn't abandonware. It is still being developed. Why do you care if it is called 1.0 or 0.2 alpha. You were promised FREE updates FOR LIFE if you bought before december 2013......

Edited June 17, 2015 by Arsonik

[kenbobo]

Taken straight from my Facebook post.

Kerbal Space Program + Playstation 4= YES

and no

I mean, seriously, the company you chose to port with is terrible. I suggest you port it yourselves, using the FREE PLAYSTATION 4 EXPORT FEATURE BUILT INTO UNITY based on what they have made.

I'm looking at you. Flying Tiger Entertainment Indie Video Game Company

AKA too long of a name

Edited June 17, 2015 by kenbobo

[Arsonik]

Taken straight from my Facebook post.

Taken straight from wikipedia.

Squad, Monkey Squad S.A de C.V., is an interactive marketing company in Mexico City, Mexico, which is also the developer and publisher behind Kerbal Space Program.

The main business of Squad is to provide digital and interactive services to customers like Coca-Cola, Hewlett-Packard, Sony, Samsung and Nissan, including creating websites, guerrilla marketing, multi-media installations, and corporate-image design. They have developed software for different applications, some of which were similar to video games.[citation needed]

I think the evil mobile games company deserves a shot as much as the marketing monkeys.

Just playing devils advocate here.

[GusTurbo]

There are literally THREE (3) bugs people have been complaining about.

HOLY CRAP!!! Someone better call the BBB! I've NEVER experienced THREE bugs in the gold release of a game before!

Do you seriously think there are only 3 bugs in KSP as of 1.02? It's not as if they fixed all of the pre-1.0 bugs before release.

[Majorjim!]

Just like we had to eat our words when we all expressed concerns that the time table for 1.0 was too ambitious and that they wouldn't be able to iron out the bugs in time.

Oh wait...

Very sadly true.. We are not just lunatics, we have been around since the beginning and we are spotting patterns. That's all. We all want the best for KSP same as any other fan. That's why we are so vocal, if not us who will?

[DoToH]

-suggesting-

and fix landing gear animation, antenna tweakable activation, maneuver nodes auto-closing or inability to place them, SPH auto-switching symmetry mode, kraken summoning claw, correct SAS behavior (at least the same in every mode) and many more FIXES and not FEATURES that have been there for more than one version and neglected every new release.

Edited June 17, 2015 by DoToH

[luizopiloto]

Console world is merciless... unforgiving... cruel... It's almost like space flight, one error and it's all over... no... wait...

I really like this game... I don't want to see bad things happening to Squad... there is no revert to launch button... >___<"

[Robotengineer]

Very sadly true.. We are not just lunatics, we have been around since the beginning and we are spotting patterns. That's all. We all want the best for KSP same as any other fan. That's why we are so vocal, if not us who will?

While the patterns remain the community and Squad has made it through just about every major schism relatively unscathed, at least as far back as I became a member of the Community, shortly before the Great Curse Catastrophe of '14.

[sam.johnson841]

I will just say, I've tried KSP on Xbox 360 controller the dual shock 4 and xbone controller, none of them where any good in the slightest within the editor.

-Sam

[RocketPilot573]

I feel like numerous people are just throwing out random points to complain about... It is very likely that nothing will happen to the PC community. As long as the PC developers don't do the port themselves, everything should be fine. Minecraft ported over to several platforms... It became a global phenomenon. I have playing that game for a long time and the only issue there is is that several PC developers are working on the mobile version, thus leaving the PC version dead in the water. But I have faith in Squad to not abandon us, everything will be fine.

While the patterns remain the community and Squad has made it through just about every major schism relatively unscathed, at least as far back as I became a member of the Community, shortly before the Great Curse Catastrophe of '14.

I remember everyone (including me) freaking out about Curse the same way everyone is freaking out now. Yet now I can't think of one way Curse has been bad in the long run. Squad did not go bankrupt, mod support has not ended, and the planet didn't explode.

[rabidninjawombat]

I will just say, I've tried KSP on Xbox 360 controller the dual shock 4 and xbone controller, none of them where any good in the slightest within the editor.

-Sam

Id imagine they are gonna integrate the touchpad feature on the dualshock into the editor. At least thats what i would do

[regex]

I remember everyone (including me) freaking out about Curse the same way everyone is freaking out now. Yet now I can't think of one way Curse has been bad in the long run. Squad did not go bankrupt, mod support has not ended, and the planet didn't explode.

And more of everything is still on Github and KerbalStuff.

[8bitgammers]

Honestly, i don't understand the problem here.

this does not seem, to me, to be an appropriate thing to speak out about.

I don't really care where you play the game, PC, or PS4 in the future, if it doesn't work then they will stop it!

I am not afraid of how squad is developing KSP. why are people so angered by this?

[Gargamel]

I don't have a ps4, so I don't even know if it's doable, but I doubt a lot of the modders would want to have to redo their work to make it work on the PS4. I love stock KSP, but mainly because I know I can change the game up at any time I want.

[basic.syntax]

SQUAD is already sitting on fat stacks of money; yet the "more money, better development" logic seemingly has yet to pan out.

That's sheer speculation, we have no idea what money Squad has not spent or on what. Perhaps we are starting to see the benefits of more development money right now, with the collaboration (hiring?) of FT for the PS4 port. Which, Maxmaps has said has already paid off with their Unity 5 help.

It took over two years for SQUAD to implement a resource model that is basically a stripped-down Kethane in not as many words, when the old resources model was supposedly scrapped in part for being "grindy" like Kethane. Career Mode has languished for a year while waiting for, among other things perhaps, an aerodynamics overhaul, which in turn was waiting for new spaceplane parts. They could have had new spaceplane parts while they had B9 on the team [...] It's been over two years since the first release of FAR. ...

Most of the two years for resources was spent working on other features... and deciding what the resource system should be. Actual implementation was handled in much less time, by RoverDude, who crafted a variation of Karbonite. Career mode got most of the focus in recent updates, with the addition (v.90) and then expansion (v1.0) of Arsonide's Fine Print contract extensions.

The Aero overhaul is part of the simulation. It could have been released without new spaceplane parts. I think its awesome that we did get the new parts, and the bigger wings and landing gears. (Only Squad could say if one was waiting on the other.) Squad has always straddled a line between simulation and gameplay; FAR in my view, was always going to be "too FAR" for Squad's taste.

SQUAD has had the money, the resources, the time, and the people - both on their team and available, even bursting from the seams of the community with enthusiasm to develop for KSP.

While it's true that the community is full of talent, Squad has in fact tapped that talent from time to time. Witness RoverDude's work on the resource system, Arsonide's contracts, and Porkjet's spaceplane parts.

That they have not used their fairly staggering quantities of cash

Staggering, you say? Sheer speculation. We have no way to know what amount of cash is lying around unspent.

and have let go of most of the hires they have made

let go? More speculation. We only know what some have chosen to share. The last two to announce that they are leaving Squad did so in the Devnotes, suggesting they left on good terms.

[luizopiloto]

I don't have a ps4, so I don't even know if it's doable, but I doubt a lot of the modders would want to have to redo their work to make it work on the PS4. I love stock KSP, but mainly because I know I can change the game up at any time I want.

I don't think PS4 version will accept mods..

[Robotengineer]

I don't think PS4 version will accept mods..

I wouldn't be surprised if the most popular mods will be sold as DLC, if the PS4 can even handle mods.

[Engineer of Stuff]

I think that Squad will give PC first priority. They are NOT giving up on us. They have given a lot of thought to this, and if they think that it is worth the investment it probably is.

I have faith in you Squad!

[Nich]

So you know when your on reentry and you notice your last separation and parachute are in the same stage. You quickly RMB you last separation stage and decouple it manually or you quickly make a new stage for the parachute and move it up. I just don't see that being possible on a console.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not dumb down the PC version so that it plays well on console.

That being said I think everyone playing PS4 will pay for the game, hate the limitations of playing the game on PS4 and will buy it again for PC. Think of it as a paid demo and squad stands to make a TON of money. I personally think they should offer to sell the PC version for 75% off to console players who are not satisfied so the game does not go down in flames.

[regex]

So you know when your on reentry and you notice your last separation and parachute are in the same stage. You quickly RMB you last separation stage and decouple it manually or you quickly make a new stage for the parachute and move it up. I just don't see that being possible on a console.

They'll have to add a pause mode or something.

[RocketPilot573]

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not dumb down the PC version so that it plays well on console.

I can hardly believe that anyone would even think that such a thing would happen. Squad has done questionable things in the past, but never that bad.

[Mr Shifty]

So you know when your on reentry and you notice your last separation and parachute are in the same stage. You quickly RMB you last separation stage and decouple it manually or you quickly make a new stage for the parachute and move it up. I just don't see that being possible on a console.

You use the touchpad on the controller to mouse over your decoupler, then click the right-hand side of the pad to open the menu, scroll down to the "Decouple" option using the controller stick and press X. I don't know if this is how they'll do it, but it shouldn't be too hard. The touchpad on the DS4 is the key.