MechJeb vs non MechJeb

[Skylab]

I never use MJ, but I don't look down on people who do. From everything I've heard, it just doesn't sound very fun to me.

Also, I don't know why some people think the stock UI is broken or unusable; I've never had any problems with it.

[Nigeth]

Also, I don't know why some people think the stock UI is broken or unusable; I've never had any problems with it.

A few examples:

Try to set a maneuver point when your ship is on a hyperbolic trajectory. Most of the time you can't or the first node you can set is hours or days from your current position. If the game doesn't add a 'clickable' point to that segment of the trajectory curve you can't set a node there. The game usually forgets to add clickable points to highly excentric or hyperbolic trajectory curves. Especially in the vicinity of "poles" of the hyperbolic trajectory. Known since I don't know when

Try to add a maneuver node on a trajectory curve when other 'clickable' objects like vessels, asteroids, node markers or other trajectory curves are in the vicinity. You can't because the UI gives privilege to the other clickable nodes over your trajectory. especially annoying when you are on an inerplanetary trajectory and want to make adjustments and 'unknown' markers are displayed on the map.

Try to add a maneuver node to a trajectory curve when the patched conic approximation keeps changing its mind due to rounding errors and/or the initial conditions making it hard to settle on a solution. The flickering will make it impossible for you to click on it.

Try to design an encounter over interplanetary distances when your ship is still in orbit around Kerbin and you want to optimize your aproach to for example Duna or Jool. Now try it with 'focus view' on Duna or Jool. Now try it with 'focus view' on Duna or Jool and other vessels in Orbit around Kerbin, Minmus or Mun.

I could go on and on.

[jkool702]

Mechjeb, though I fervently believe in doing everything without mechjeb initially until its second nature. Only switch to mechjeb when hard, challenging and fun turns into tedious and boring.

[SciMan]

I use MechJeb quite a lot. Not because I can't fly manually, but because it's very boring to launch the same rocket 20 times to the same orbit.

I don't try to convince people to use or not use MechJeb.

Why should I care how they play their single player game that has exactly zero impact on anyone else's game-play?

It's an entirely personal choice, so other players' opinions should have exactly zero impact on it.

The thing I don't like is people that think "If I don't like it nobody can like it", or "If I like it everybody must like it".

The world simply does not work like that.

Opinions, likes, and dislikes on ANY subject are local to one person and non-transferable, no matter how hard you try.

Edited July 7, 2015 by SciMan

[Red Iron Crown]

Place bets on the admin to lock this thread? I think RIC is online but invisible, so my bets on him...

I haven't been invisible in some time. I don't really see a reason to lock this up for that matter, the discussion seems pretty civil so far (if a bit of a played-out topic).

My 2m/s of dV:

Use it if you like it, don't use it if you don't. No one cares how you play and enjoy the game (outside of Challenges, where you should adhere to the challenge rules). There are players that I greatly respect that use MechJeb; there are others that would never use it. The game is different things to different people, it is up to the individual whether MJ fits into their playstyle.

Personally, I've had an on again/off again relationship with MechJeb. When I started it wasn't even a thing (only part mods were possible), so I learned how to do many things in KSP through trial and error plus research. When I first tried MechJeb I found it made the game too easy for me as I was letting it do everything, eventually I stopped using many of its autopilot functions because I enjoy performing certain maneuvers and the chance of failure that manual piloting brings. As MJ's functionality grew, I made sure to watch how it performed maneuvers that I had already found ways to perform manually, seeing if it knew anything I didn't (sometimes it did and I learned better techniques, sometimes it didn't). I then moved on to having MJ handle repetitive stuff for me; there wasn't a lot of enjoyment to be had from piloting a tanker rocket to orbit for the 10th time. My current playstyle is less about running a huge space program and more about single missions and testing, so I haven't been using MechJeb lately.

[TimePeriod]

If you choose to play without it, its fine.

If you choose to play with it, its fine too.

Under one condition

You have to learn how to play without it first.

Why?

Because NOBODY should be allowed to drive a car without a license.

[JetJaguar]

KER for me, I've never used MechJeb. I don't look down on anyone who does use it and in fact, an argument could be made that MechJeb is more realistic than flying on your own because almost everything in a real space flight is automated. Rockets use automated guidance systems to follow the optimal planned trajectory right from launch. Dockings with the ISS are typically done on autopilot. Space probes are too far away to directly control remotely, the delay is too long - the round trip for a signal to the New Horizons probe, for example, is 9 hours.

So, the most realistic way to play would be to design a mission profile and program it into a guidance system, then step back while it does the rest.

[Jouni]

Because NOBODY should be allowed to drive a car without a license.

If you ask Google, it's soon going to be "Nobody should be allowed to drive a car."

[Red Iron Crown]

If you choose to play without it, its fine.

If you choose to play with it, its fine too.

Under one condition

You have to learn how to play without it first.

Why?

Because NOBODY should be allowed to drive a car without a license.

Hardly the same thing, there's no public safety risk for a person playing KSP without knowing how to pilot.

If someone wants to play KSP purely as a spacecraft designer and mission controller and doesn't want to pilot, why shouldn't they?

[Robotengineer]

Whoa, this thread is still here. I don't think kOS has been mentioned yet in this thread, so I'll mention it. Is kOS cheating?

- - - Updated - - -

Hardly the same thing, there's no public safety risk for a person playing KSP without knowing how to pilot.

If someone wants to play KSP purely as a spacecraft designer and mission controller and doesn't want to pilot, why shouldn't they?

If you were on a spacecraft that had just lost its autopilot capability, would you rather have a KSP player who has played using MechJeb on your crew, or one who has actually piloted their missions?

[Nigeth]

You have to learn how to play without it first. (...) Because NOBODY should be allowed to drive a car without a license.

What gave you the impression that you have any authority to dictate how other people play their game? Don't you think that it is a tad arrogant of you to think that you can decide for all the players out there what is the right way to play a game? Don't you think that your comparison of a game mechanic to a real life licence to operate a motor vehicle is quite a bit out of line?

Some people...

[Red Iron Crown]

If you were on a spacecraft that had just lost its autopilot capability, would you rather have a KSP player who has played using MechJeb on your crew, or one who has actually piloted their missions?

What does that have to do with using an autopilot in a video game? If I'm going in a real life spacecraft I expect for there to be a highly trained team supporting the mission, both at mission control and aboard the spacecraft. But how people play a video game? I don't care, do whatever is fun for you.

[Nigeth]

If you were on a spacecraft that had just lost its autopilot capability, would you rather have a KSP player who has played using MechJeb on your crew, or one who has actually piloted their missions?

I'd rather have someone who didn't have the need to use a skewered analogy to prove a stupid point.

[regex]

If you were on a spacecraft that had just lost its autopilot capability, would you rather have a KSP player who has played using MechJeb on your crew, or one who has actually piloted their missions?

Neither, I'd rather have the rest of the highly trained crew keep their heads out of their butts and work through the situation like they'd rehearsed, with help from the competent people in mission control. The last thing I want is for some jerk to grab the controls thinking that the spacecraft has some sort of magical SAS or whatever other misconceptions about spaceflight they'd learned from playing KSP.

[TimePeriod]

Hardly the same thing, there's no public safety risk for a person playing KSP without knowing how to pilot.

If someone wants to play KSP purely as a spacecraft designer and mission controller and doesn't want to pilot, why shouldn't they?

So explosions are not fun?

Because explosions only occur when A) Things are on the launchpad or 'The player' mucks up.

Plus, I get a huge sense of accomplishment when I do something manually, which I know for a fact (in real life) is a lot more rewarding.

[CommanderSpock]

Mechjeb. It does what real spacecraft do.

[Red Iron Crown]

So explosions are not fun?

Because explosions only occur when A) Things are on the launchpad or 'The player' mucks up.

Plus, I get a huge sense of accomplishment when I do something manually, which I know for a fact (in real life) is a lot more rewarding.

People have different sorts of fun. What is fun for you (or me, I like flying manually, too) is not necessarily fun for everyone everywhere. My question still stands: If someone wants to play KSP purely as a spacecraft designer and mission controller and doesn't want to pilot, why shouldn't they?

[TimePeriod]

People have different sorts of fun. What is fun for you (or me, I like flying manually, too) is not necessarily fun for everyone everywhere. My question still stands: If someone wants to play KSP purely as a spacecraft designer and mission controller and doesn't want to pilot, why shouldn't they?

My answer still stands as well:

Nobody should be allowed to drive a car without a license.

I guess that's a difference of opinion. No hard feelings.

[Wallygator]

Holy Crap! another "Mechjeb or Not" thread! already 12 pages long....

No mechjeb here -> KER only.

The only reason I don't use it is that I like my screen a bit more clear. I do not hate Mechjeb, nor do I hate people who use it.

If we had multi-screen support, maybe... but only maybe... If Mechjeb had a vintage DSKY option, then I might consider changing my mind.

All this said, I have never downloaded or installed Mechjeb. Never used it, yet have visited and landed on all bodies.

(OK, I've not launched from eve yet, but that day will come soon - and likely without mechjeb)

But it would be nice to have accessible mission event programming and scripting as stock. Seriously.

[Red Iron Crown]

My answer still stands as well:

Nobody should be allowed to drive a car without a license.

I guess that's a difference of opinion. No hard feelings.

Do you think only licensed drivers should be allowed to play driving games?

(No hard feelings here, either.)

[Tex_NL]

My answer still stands as well:

Nobody should be allowed to drive a car without a license.

I guess that's a difference of opinion. No hard feelings.

Nobody IS allowed to drive a car without a license. (Except on private property and some other closed off area's.)

Your analogy is flawed!

Yes, I use MechJeb but I absolutely don't give an F what others think about that. Nor do I care if others do or do not use it.

But why are we even having this discussion AGAIN? Dozens of discussions exactly like this one have been locked as they will (nearly) always end in a flame war. Please end it before it starts.

[TimePeriod]

Do you think only licensed drivers should be allowed to play driving games?

(No hard feelings here, either.)

I believe that without a proper in-depth understanding of the game mechanics, both of theoretical and practical in nature can one learn to fully enjoy this video game. That is what I meant by "licensed drivers". (What you choose to do after this, is entirely up to you.)

Its like buying an expensive icecream, only to spit out all the expensive chocolate covering the top, because you dislike hard chocolate and prefer soft chocolate.

But that's fine by me, spit out 20$ icecream all you want.

Edited July 7, 2015 by TimePeriod

[Nigeth]

I'm rather shocked over the non-chalance with which people would like to mandate how other people have fun and enjoy themselves in their own free time. Food for thought: Just because you like to enjoy a game in a certain way doesn't mean that you have to force everyone else to enjoy it in exactly the same way as you.

It is entirely possible, allowed and expected for you to enjoy your hobby regardless of how others enjoy theirs

Edited July 7, 2015 by Red Iron Crown

[Red Iron Crown]

I don't like to moderate threads in which I am participating, but some is required here:

Please refrain from making comments about the personalities of other posters. Disagree with their arguments and posts if you like, but please do not make personal attacks. Argue the post not the poster, please.

[Endersmens]

Your poll is missing an option. "I really don't care"