The Warp Drive in invented tomorrow. What happens next?

[Duxwing]

Wow, such cynicism, and much of it inaccurate.

1) The design could not be seized by governments and kept from the public. It, not to mention years of supporting research, would have been uploaded immediately and downloaded widely before any government could react. Even with the Five Eyes scouring the fiber optic cables weeks later, determined builders would merely ask daring design-holders for a CD. As the old saying goes: The Internet is forever.

2) It would not quickly change our economy. Without cheap and safe space access, gear for mining distant worlds, and enormous void-worthy habitats for our miners, our warp drive would be a very good way of moving things that don't exist to places we won't live to do things we can't do. But it would be quite the motivation.

3) Finding peaceful aliens is worth the risk of meeting wrathful ones. I find it strange I must tell a forum of (pretend) rocket scientists to just think of the potential while asking them what could possibly go wrong.

---

Indeed, creating a warp drive would be so great a deed that whoever first saw it might, echoing Homer, say that the will of man was done. Going to other stars, walking on other planets, and meeting other species would be overwhelmingly awesome and amazing. Just imagining it brings me to my knees and tears of joy to my eyes.

-Duxwing

[vger]

No. K^2 can probably explain it better than I can, but basically, warp drives accumulate everything they fly through in the front of the bubble basically in the form of energy or subatomic particles. Upon shutting down the drive, all of that is emitted as forward facing gamma rays.

So... a warp ship could punch a tunnel straight through a planet and come out the other side without even a dent?

I guess we know at what point humanity will have no choice but to surrender to Al Quida, or whoever has made a habit of using flying machines as kamikaze devices in that era.

[MoeKitsune]

Wait, warp drives actually destroy stuff?

I have to go and rethink everything I knew about sci-fi.

[Wallygator]

The major powers would immediately start programs to weaponize it to support the spreading of freedom to spend and own highly desirable consumer goods to all parts of the Galaxy.

Heh.

[Umlüx]

Aliens will cower in fear as we spread freedom and democracy, probably?

as long as we can fit a warp drive on an A10

[Scotius]

Society will again become interested in space exploration

[magnemoe]

Wow, such cynicism, and much of it inaccurate.

1) The design could not be seized by governments and kept from the public. It, not to mention years of supporting research, would have been uploaded immediately and downloaded widely before any government could react. Even with the Five Eyes scouring the fiber optic cables weeks later, determined builders would merely ask daring design-holders for a CD. As the old saying goes: The Internet is forever.

2) It would not quickly change our economy. Without cheap and safe space access, gear for mining distant worlds, and enormous void-worthy habitats for our miners, our warp drive would be a very good way of moving things that don't exist to places we won't live to do things we can't do. But it would be quite the motivation.

3) Finding peaceful aliens is worth the risk of meeting wrathful ones. I find it strange I must tell a forum of (pretend) rocket scientists to just think of the potential while asking them what could possibly go wrong.

---

Indeed, creating a warp drive would be so great a deed that whoever first saw it might, echoing Homer, say that the will of man was done. Going to other stars, walking on other planets, and meeting other species would be overwhelmingly awesome and amazing. Just imagining it brings me to my knees and tears of joy to my eyes.

-Duxwing

1 This even if it was developed in an secret lab like skunk works it would be very hard to hide afterwards, and just knowing the basic will get others to look into it.

Stealth planes was secret a long time, however it was well known that the US worked on stealth planes.

An warp drive would be more interesting and harder to keep hidden.

2 the first tests was done in the atmosphere, if you could activate it on ground and jump some thousand kilometers strait forward it would be in space, yes you would still need orbital speed but you would not need high twr, the structural requirements or even aerodynamic.

I don't think it would replace planes but it might be an way to launch stuff into space, you could perhaps do fun stuff with it like using moon gravity to get into an high orbit after doing multiple jumps.

Still space is an expensive environment to operate

3 aliens with space traveling technology in our stellar neighborhood would know about earth, they would know it was life on it but perhaps not intelligence.

Now an probe with an warp drive would be hard to find out where came from, you would set it to blow up if unable to return.

So you drop into a solar system, looks for planets, if you get sign of civilization like radio use or spaceship engines you jump out again. it would also be very unlikely that the aliens don't have warp drive themselves.

[GeneralVeers]

Commence quote war!

The huge difference here is that going to the Moon yields no actual benefit, while a warp ship does.

In what way? Going to the Moon? Which, as you just said, yields no actual benefit....? Gotcha. The act of putting people on the Moon gave the U.S. practice at space flight: navigating to another planet, landing on it, keeping the crew alive in the process, etc. Those are some of the benefits going to the Moon gave us.

Currently the US has such an advanced program that it cannot put people into space. Their program, as it stands, is not more advanced than that of Europe or Russia.

Yes it is. By a country mile. The U.S. simply cancelled the shuttle program at a bad time. Common sense dictates that one should not cancel a shuttle until AFTER its replacement is ready, but advanced technology doesn't prevent politicians from being idiots. For funsies, hit up Wikipedia and read up on the coming replacement for the U.S. shuttle program: the very poorly named "Space Launch System".

It does. It cannot be hit by anyone that does not have warp technology.

Oh yes it can. A warp-capable ship can be hit anytime it's NOT at warp, which would be "most of the time". The ship has to park and refuel somewhere; it has to drop into normal space to shoot at things. Again and again, human beings have invented unkillable weapons (the ironclad naval warship, the World War I "landship", high-altitude bombers, the U2 spy plane). All of them turned out to be killable.

There is some tactical advantage to a starship with a warp drive--but currently, with all the combatants here on Earth, it's much cheaper to use other weapons. The U.S. and a few other nations can already blow up pretty much anything they want, and there's usually nothing the target can do about it (case in point: we sneaked straight into Pakistan and nabbed Osama bin Laden without getting spotted!) There's no reason to build a much more expensive weapon that does the same thing, when the same amount of money will get you two hundred less fancy weapons that do the same thing. The real military value of warp drive will only be when there's stuff we want to blow up that's on some OTHER planet.

Side note: a couple of people have been making mistakes like the following:

Not to mention you don't want to use a warp drive too close to a planet anyways. If I'm not mistaken, you might just take a bit of the planet with you.

"Whoops, did you still need that continent?"

Thumbs up for humor but keep in mind, GregroxMun didn't specify in the starting post exactly how the theoretical warp drive worked. Though, certainly, you could use the drive to make a VERY fast missile......

[ChrisSpace]

Suppose a hypothetical laboratory is working on a device which would be able to warp space relatively cheaply. They get several confirmed experiments. A few other labs get confirmed experiments as well. A few papers are published about it. The press goes wild with titles like "Yes, we really do have warp drive for real this time." Skeptics examine the evidence, and find that, unlike EMdrive, the math and science works out. They start bringing higher energy levels into the device. A few megawatts are put into the drive, and it suddenly whizzes out the door at a few hundred miles per hour, crashing into the wall and taking down that section of the building. Another experiment is performed outside with nothing to crash into, and the drive launches itself across a football field.

Discovering this kind of thing today would be like the Imperial British Empire discovering nuclear fusion. Just sayin'.

Continued experiments find that the drive works on translation, not acceleration, so that it can actually work without being a perpetual motion machine. Calculations suggest that the lightspeed barrier can be broken using a warp drive, because loopholes, and that it wouldn't take more than the power generated by a good nuclear reactor to break 1c.

By 'a good nuclear reactor' i'm gonna be nice and assume you mean 200MW for a 600t spacecraft to travel at 1c, based on the VASIMR 200MW nuclear 600t spacecraft. Now we're getting somewhere.

The world realizes that this new space warp effect is real. It's actually happening. What do you think would happen next?

All the world's nations will invest heavily in nuclear fusion and other extremely compact energy generation, to make the most of warp propulsion. Mars is certainly explored by several nations, along with the moons of the outer planets. America tries to weaponise the device. Russia and China use it to lift large space stations off Earth's surface. SpaceX uses warp technology to make space access even cheaper. Japan, South Korea and NATO work together to build military bases on the moon. Poland can into space. Australia stays out of the arms race due to government technophobia. North Korea would claim to have created their own warp drive, but nobody would believe them. Mars One might actually become a thing. Lunar and Asteroid mining would rack up trillions of dollars. Saudi Arabia and the UAE would panic as Titanian natural gas becomes way more abundant than oil.

Aliens will cower in fear as we spread freedom and democracy, probably?

We will spread democracy throughout our region of the galaxy. We will exterminate all aliens because they illegally immigrate to Earth and also because they look ugly. The end.

When we do come across an inhabited planet, there are 2 possibilities: They nearly wipe us out with alien diseases, or we nearly wipe them out with our diseases. What happens next depends on how technologically advanced they are.

The nations of the Free World will gain new knowledge by leaps and bounds. The Voyager space probes will get left behind as ships explore far outside the solar system. Probably some smart aleck is gonna fly up to Deep Space 1 and graffiti it.

We'll almost certainly encounter life on other planets--almost entirely microbes, plants and animals. The universe is 13 billion years old; human evolution took us from that point to our current level of technology in only a few thousand years. So whether we encounter alien civilizations depends entirely on how often that kind of evolution happens--a question we cannot answer until we go out into space and take a look.

1) The design could not be seized by governments and kept from the public. It, not to mention years of supporting research, would have been uploaded immediately and downloaded widely before any government could react. Even with the Five Eyes scouring the fiber optic cables weeks later, determined builders would merely ask daring design-holders for a CD. As the old saying goes: The Internet is forever.

2) It would not quickly change our economy. Without cheap and safe space access, gear for mining distant worlds, and enormous void-worthy habitats for our miners, our warp drive would be a very good way of moving things that don't exist to places we won't live to do things we can't do. But it would be quite the motivation.

Mining craft for asteroids could easily be built, and there is an estimated $100 million of asteroid belt minerals for every person on Earth. Not to mention the solar energy opportunities on Mercury, the seas of natural gas on Titan, or the giant calamari on Europa.

Society will again become interested in space exploration

It would be a very good time.

the first tests was done in the atmosphere, if you could activate it on ground and jump some thousand kilometers strait forward it would be in space, yes you would still need orbital speed but you would not need high twr, the structural requirements or even aerodynamic.

I don't think it would replace planes but it might be an way to launch stuff into space, you could perhaps do fun stuff with it like using moon gravity to get into an high orbit after doing multiple jumps.

Yes, it could indeed be used to launch massive space stations into orbit.

[YNM]

People would start to realize just how large the universe is. No fast wi-fi at space everyone ! Unless Shoebox-Full-o'MicroSDs is your thing.

Other than that, NationStates will probably be more real than the real world by that time. You should get it into the problems and look how people act. Matters like this are more political-military than entertaintment-scientific at any time.

[RainDreamer]

I imagine for a while global space programs will get a boost, but not with warp drive just yet. They are just going to be programs to build testing facilities over the moon, so that a full scale test can be safely done instead of trying to pull that one on earth and deal with an accident that would blast the face of the earth with gamma ray bursts and kill a bunch of people.

[magnemoe]

When we do come across an inhabited planet, there are 2 possibilities: They nearly wipe us out with alien diseases, or we nearly wipe them out with our diseases. What happens next depends on how technologically advanced they are.

For diseases to transfer you would need an very close biochemistry. Most diseases who jump species barriers come from mammals, some come from birds but this tend to be domesticated birds who live close to humans. For mammals you either need lots of close contact or close genetic.

[Kinglet]

Nothing would happen for quite a long time as the power requirements for a warp drive are very likely to be extremely high.

[megatiger78]

we kill aliens

[Whirligig Girl]

Depends on how easy it is to build as well. It it requires a an empty can of spray paint and some chewing gum, you can expect every Joe Schmoe to build a starship in his back yard. If you need a thousand tons of gold-plated diamonds, building one will become a massive international effort.

Let's imagine a warp drive would take about as much money and effort to build as, say, a steam locomotive in the early 1800s. The principle is obvious in retrospect, but there aren't any existing manufacturing systems, and you still have a long way to go R&D wise to get a warp drive that can breach the lightspeed "barrier" Stephenson's Rocket is a long way from a UP Big Boy or the Flying Scotsman.

- - - Updated - - -

Okay, first of all, your title is misleading. I hate to be pedantic, but if someone had an idea for a warp drive ("invented" a warp drive) tomorrow, nothing would probably happen for four or five years as tests were done. There would be some initial hype from the press, but that would be quashed as people correctly stated that unless repeated attempts worked, it wouldn't be worth even a tiny bit of attention.

[speculation]

After a working warp drive was created beyond a shadow of a doubt, the military would probably seize control of all plans and methodology behind the warp drive. They would state that this could be used against the United States, pointing to the law of E=mc² turning mass into energy and thus releasing an almost unimaginably large explosion if the thing was abused. Debates about using the warp drive for war would become a household subject. North Korea would claim to have created their own warp drive, but nobody would believe them.

After years of petitioning, scientists would finally be given permission to attach a small payload to a warp drive and send it out into space. The payload would merely warp a few light-days away from Earth to test the feasibility of such a project. While the warp initially appears to have occurred successfully, no radio contact is established. It turns out that warp drives generate such intense amounts of electromagnetic radiation in all frequencies while passing the light barrier, it cannot realistically be used.

Government funding towards warp drives is finally cancelled due to the tensions it causes ("if you can't use warp drives for scientific purposes, why are you still pouring money into the program?") and the exorbitant cost. The warp drive, however, has captured the public's imagination. Forty years later, a man claims to have the original warp drive's blueprints. An amateur team of scientists attempts to follow them and ends up killing six people and wounding another three when they get something just a little wrong. The days of the warp drive are over.

[/speculation]

Yes, I overthink things. I also think, however, that this thread is more about speculation on humanity's actions than it is on spacecraft. Perhaps this thread would work better in the Space Lounge?

-Upsilon

I should have clarified that I really meant "tomorrow" in a more metaphorical sense. Like, "The cars of tomorrow." And wow, that is pessimistic.

- - - Updated - - -

No. K^2 can probably explain it better than I can, but basically, warp drives accumulate everything they fly through in the front of the bubble basically in the form of energy or subatomic particles. Upon shutting down the drive, all of that is emitted as forward facing gamma rays.

Well, the idea is kind of that the warp drive is safe to use, but presumably not stable in too deep a gravity well. (you have to get a bit away from Earth in order for the drive to produce more than a few miles per hour of spacewarp. Basically like the USI Industries warp drive.)

[PB666]

No, not really. This is not about the funniest response, this is more of a thought experiment.

Phhttth. I was just going to come up with something funny.

[Whirligig Girl]

Phhttth. I was just going to come up with something funny.

You could be funny if you wanted. It's a free forum.

[GeneralVeers]

When we do come across an inhabited planet, there are 2 possibilities: They nearly wipe us out with alien diseases, or we nearly wipe them out with our diseases.

Third possibility: the chemistries are incompatible, and their diseases and our disease each do nothing to the other species. Keep in mind, you've never seen a eucalyptus tree catch the flu. There's a reason for that......

(Star Control II, anyone?)

Well, the idea is kind of that the warp drive is safe to use, but presumably not stable in too deep a gravity well. (you have to get a bit away from Earth in order for the drive to produce more than a few miles per hour of spacewarp. Basically like the USI Industries warp drive.)

Or, like several of the engines in Kerbal Space Program, which get lousy ISP at sea level.

[Norcalplanner]

I think it would be like the golden age of exploration all over again, only with starships instead of sailing ships. Government sponsors exploration first, followed by the bolder companies seeking to make a buck. Skirmishes amongst various nations and trade companies comes afterward. And unless communications can keep up, I think that the odds of a flourishing piracy and privateer culture are higher, because of the greater plausible deniability. Just like gold or oil, platinum from an asteroid is a fungible resource.

[kiwi1960]

We would never know it... the U.S. Government (assuming NASA invented it) would keep it secret for a few very good reasons...

Right now, the capitalists have a slave planet... what I call "Prison Camp Earth"... do you really think they want anyone to leave...

This is why the rich do not want to upset things... they ignore climate change because its a threat to their wealth.

[Vanamonde]

Let's not get into political discussions, please.

[NFUN]

Does the Warp Drive also require constant power when operating, as inertia doesn't exist in hyperspace? And would we have to be wary of the *happy campers*?

[RocketBlam]

Oh, the *alliance party* *campers* are in the *now space*.

It is *happy spices*. Why are you there?

I am *squeezing* the *juice*!

[kiwi1960]

Let's not get into political discussions, please.

Merely pointing out the truth, not really political at all. If you look at the past promises of Moon cities where you "will soon be able to live and work" and accept they never happened, you have to ask yourself why not? Its only recently that private enterprise has LEGALLY been able to enter the space race...

Oh, the *alliance party* *campers* are in the *now space*.

It is *happy spices*. Why are you there?

I am *squeezing* the *juice*!

Who? I reside in New Zealand... not sure where you are or to what you are referring to.

Have a nice day.

[Camacha]

Yes it is. By a country mile.

Could you substantiate how this 'advancedness' is measured in your book and what numbers you attach to it for the various nations mentioned?

Oh yes it can. A warp-capable ship can be hit anytime it's NOT at warp, which would be "most of the time". The ship has to park and refuel somewhere; it has to drop into normal space to shoot at things. Again and again, human beings have invented unkillable weapons (the ironclad naval warship, the World War I "landship", high-altitude bombers, the U2 spy plane). All of them turned out to be killable.

You are missing the point. The question was whether it will shift power and I said it will. Those things you mention turned out to be killable after a while. That is the very crucial point. A warp ship will allow a nation to hide away things (read: weapons, possibly supplies or people) for other nations in a place they, without warp drives, can never ever reach. That is a massive advantage to have over any enemy. The whole MAD 'stability' relies on both nations being able to push the button. As soon as that balance shifts, the whole thing shifts.

Edited August 1, 2015 by Camacha