[Min KSP: 1.12.2] Pathfinder - Space Camping & Geoscience

[DStaal]

14 hours ago, Kielm said:

Before I start - was there a specific reason why USI-LS support was dropped? It still seems to work - but I thought I should check as I have a feeling that smarter people than me have already tried this and I could be wasting my time... 

Mostly it was that USI-LS went through a major balance change (and Pathfinder went through a parts revamp), Angel-125 wasn't using USI-LS, and no one's stepped up to write patches.  There's no technical reason it was dropped, other than it was out of date.

[Kielm]

16 hours ago, shdwlrd said:

The only thing you will have to do is create a patch to add habitation time and supplies to the Pathfinder parts. If you want to use MKS, build the two bases separately and use WBI distribution for resource transfers. (You may want to do the same thing with supplies creation for ground bases too. Plus USI resource distribution doesn't really make sense.) That way if the bases gets blinked out of existence, your only real loss is some buckboards or tundra modules. 

PS. You may have to remove the dependency for the MKS parts to be manned.

It's been a while since I touched USI Logistics, and haven't played with WBI Logistics at all yet. Why the preference for WBI? I remember the USI Logistics was a little weird, is WBI logistics easier?

 

4 hours ago, DStaal said:

Mostly it was that USI-LS went through a major balance change (and Pathfinder went through a parts revamp), Angel-125 wasn't using USI-LS, and no one's stepped up to write patches.  There's no technical reason it was dropped, other than it was out of date.

Noted, thanks. I suspect the hardest part will be balancing the parts, rather than writing the actual patches. I'll just try to match up parts between mods and tweak from there. 

[goldenpsp]

37 minutes ago, Kielm said:

It's been a while since I touched USI Logistics, and haven't played with WBI Logistics at all yet. Why the preference for WBI? I remember the USI Logistics was a little weird, is WBI logistics easier?

Probably because WBI is an integrated part of Pathfinder while USI logistics is not?

[Kielm]

1 hour ago, goldenpsp said:

Probably because WBI is an integrated part of Pathfinder while USI logistics is not?

A poorly phrased question on my part. What I meant to ask was: If I'm using both mods, are they comparable in functionality or is one better?

[JadeOfMaar]

1 hour ago, Kielm said:

It's been a while since I touched USI Logistics, and haven't played with WBI Logistics at all yet. Why the preference for WBI? I remember the USI Logistics was a little weird, is WBI logistics easier?

WBI Logistics is built-in and is necessary to WBI for the same reasons USI has its own. WBI's own is far easier/less weird (I agree with @shdwlrd) in that in WBI you don't need parts to be manned for logistics to kick in, and you get the following toggles, per resource:

• Share (of course)
• Consume/Pull/Hoard
• Share through vessel (particularly important for sharing EC around)
• Ignore

If you're up to it, you could use the following WBI mods to substitute USI entirely: (shameless promotion)

• Snacks! for life support
• BARIS (but tone it down a lot. It's vicious by default) for part wear and failure
• Pathfinder itself for base building
• And these non-WBI mods
  • Station Parts Redux by Nertea (ask me for unreleased total Classic Stock conversion patch for that)
  • Kerbal Health for habitation and space radiation.

8 minutes ago, Kielm said:

A poorly phrased question on my part. What I meant to ask was: If I'm using both mods, are they comparable in functionality or is one better?

Objectively, WBI and USI are very alike in feature-sets and purpose. Pathfinder is geared towards keeping your base mobile while small, and easy to bring along, physically rearrange, pack up, and carry along. They're not mutually exclusive like Kerbalism and MKS, or any two life support mods. They can easily work together, however, Angel is not a fan of RoverDude, has as much to maintain as him, and nobody who wants USI support in WBI is willing or able to provide that support.

Edited April 24, 2019 by JadeOfMaar

[Kielm]

16 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

If you're up to it, you could use the following WBI mods to substitute USI entirely: (shameless promotion)

• Snacks! for life support
• BARIS (but tone it down a lot. It's vicious by default) for part wear and failure
• Pathfinder itself for base building
• And these non-WBI mods
  • Station Parts Redux by Nertea (ask me for unreleased total Classic Stock conversion patch for that)
  • Kerbal Health for habitation and space radiation.

Objectively, WBI and USI are very alike in feature-sets and purpose. Pathfinder is geared towards keeping your base mobile while small, and easy to bring along, physically rearrange, pack up, and carry along. They're not mutually exclusive like Kerbalism and MKS, or any two life support mods. They can easily work together, however, Angel is not a fan of RoverDude, has as much to maintain as him, and nobody who wants USI support in WBI is willing or able to provide that support.

Thanks for the explanation, and the suggestions!

The patch is coming along, just trying to hunt down the cause of some unexpected behaviour - some of the parts appear to have the "bay selection" interface, and one part has it twice :\

 

I got distracted updating the Airline Kuisine mod to work with USI - and that works, so at least there's that.

[JadeOfMaar]

@Kielm If you wouldn't mind opening a PR with your Airline Kuisine update, that would be great. I don't update things for USI anymore.

[Kielm]

@JadeOfMaar Done. 

I don't have any issue updating the USI-LS converters for Airline Kuisine, everything works a treat. 

However, when I try to use the same process for WBI Parts, the results are a bit janky. This is likely due to the way Pathfinder has swappable modules within parts, and attaching life support modules to the modules within parts (such as the pigpen) doesn't entirely work. Adding modules to parts works fine, but adding modules to the swappable parts (e.g. the PigPen recycler, Ponderosa habitat) does not. 

Hopefully there will be a workaround, otherwise the only solution is to add the modules directly to the parts - which I would like to avoid. 

 

[JadeOfMaar]

44 minutes ago, Kielm said:

However, when I try to use the same process for WBI Parts, the results are a bit janky. This is likely due to the way Pathfinder has swappable modules within parts, and attaching life support modules to the modules within parts (such as the pigpen) doesn't entirely work. Adding modules to parts works fine, but adding modules to the swappable parts (e.g. the PigPen recycler, Ponderosa habitat) does not. 

Someone else tried that and met with your problem. Part of the nature of the affected USI modules must be incompatible with WBI's swapping mechanism. I recently tried a probe core template but that failed, maybe for the same reason. There may be an integral mechanism that doesn't like being hot-swapped.

That said, I'm glad things went well otherwise.

[GraczNet]

Is pathfinder for 1.6.1 working with KAS 1.2 or should I use 1.1? Because in 1.2 old parts were deleted.

Edited April 25, 2019 by GraczNet

[capi3101]

On 4/25/2019 at 5:22 PM, GraczNet said:

Is pathfinder for 1.6.1 working with KAS 1.2 or should I use 1.1? Because in 1.2 old parts were deleted.

Couldn't say; I still use Pathfinder with KAS 1.1 and KIS 1.16; I do know that later versions of Pathfinder doesn't play well with the later versions of KIS.

[Tonka Crash]

On 4/25/2019 at 5:22 PM, GraczNet said:

Is pathfinder for 1.6.1 working with KAS 1.2 or should I use 1.1? Because in 1.2 old parts were deleted.

Stick with KAS 1.1 until Pathfinder updates for compatibility with KAS 1.2 or KAS 1.3 on KSP 1.7.

[GraczNet]

 

8 hours ago, capi3101 said:

Couldn't say; I still use Pathfinder with KAS 1.1 and KIS 1.16; I do know that later versions of Pathfinder doesn't play well with the later versions of KIS.

7 hours ago, Tonka Crash said:

Stick with KAS 1.1 until Pathfinder updates for compatibility with KAS 1.2 or KAS 1.3 on KSP 1.7.

 

Okay, thank you very much!

Edited April 27, 2019 by GraczNet

[GraczNet]

Hello I know that pathfinder is not working with USI but it works with KPBS right? 

[JadeOfMaar]

7 hours ago, GraczNet said:

Hello I know that pathfinder is not working with USI but it works with KPBS right? 

They will work together well enough. As primarily or largely parts mods, there's nothing to make them clash.

[GraczNet]

6 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

They will work together well enough. As primarily or largely parts mods, there's nothing to make them clash.

Thank you!

[GraczNet]

Hello, if I want close to stock game experience, should I use Lite or Classic mode? Is Classic very complex like MKS? Also is Buffalo working with Lite? And what about Snacks?

Edited May 2, 2019 by GraczNet

[JadeOfMaar]

@GraczNet Lite Blue reduces or removes most of the working features of Pathfinder for that "stock game experience." It's not well developed, I think, as high demand for it may not have been expected, thee isn't much to do or care about when the stock resource catalog is so narrow, and it's not the favorite play mode of myself or Angel-125.

Classic Stock is either:

• Complex to a degree but not as high a degree as MKS. Pathfinder does not contain habitation effects, requirements for a dozen+ kerbal traits for things to work, does not contain part maintenance (Well that's actually there but only relevant when you add BARIS), does not contain "Touristification" (crew turning into tourists when they starve. Snacks! makes kerbals un-controllable and optionally makes them die; but doesn't change them into tourists).
• As complex as MKS, only with regard to the width of its feature-set and the opportunities you can exploit to make things work the way you like (even including the option to switch to Lite Blue play mode, and an in-game cheats window). All modules are straightforward and opportunities to read what something does are quite abundant in-game. There's no regimented scheme for balancing a part's mass and functionality, only a scheme for regulating storeable amounts of a resource for a given tank's volume.

If you need more help you can ping me (as far as I'm useful ), Angel, or anyone who frequents this thread and shows pictures of huge bases.

[GraczNet]

6 minutes ago, JadeOfMaar said:

@GraczNet Lite Blue reduces or removes most of the working features of Pathfinder for that "stock game experience." It's not well developed, I think, as high demand for it may not have been expected, thee isn't much to do or care about when the stock resource catalog is so narrow, and it's not the favorite play mode of myself or Angel-125.

Classic Stock is either:

• Complex to a degree but not as high a degree as MKS. Pathfinder does not contain habitation effects, requirements for a dozen+ kerbal traits for things to work, does not contain part maintenance (Well that's actually there but only relevant when you add BARIS), does not contain "Touristification" (crew turning into tourists when they starve. Snacks! makes kerbals un-controllable and optionally makes them die; but doesn't change them into tourists).
• As complex as MKS, only with regard to the width of its feature-set and the opportunities you can exploit to make things work the way you like (even including the option to switch to Lite Blue play mode, and an in-game cheats window). All modules are straightforward and opportunities to read what something does are quite abundant in-game. There's no regimented scheme for balancing a part's mass and functionality, only a scheme for regulating storeable amounts of a resource for a given tank's volume.

If you need more help you can ping me (as far as I'm useful ), Angel, or anyone who frequents this thread and shows pictures of huge bases.

Thank you very much for your answer. 

[Space Kadet]

Can anyone help, ive just fresh installed, with all of wild blue and epl and the factory that use to have a rocket parts prodection is missing the modul, i cant see smelt metal or make rocket parts of anythin. 

im on CRP which is how the save was origionally but i dunno what going on..

[JadeOfMaar]

2 hours ago, Space Kadet said:

Can anyone help, ive just fresh installed, with all of wild blue and epl and the factory that use to have a rocket parts prodection is missing the modul, i cant see smelt metal or make rocket parts of anythin. 

im on CRP which is how the save was origionally but i dunno what going on..

The EL Workshop modules are missing? The resource converters are missing? What part? The Hacienda IMF or Castillo Factory? Or something else?

[Space Kadet]

3 minutes ago, JadeOfMaar said:

The EL Workshop modules are missing? The resource converters are missing? What part? The Hacienda IMF or Castillo Factory? Or something else?

when you go into the factory managment, it dosent have the converter templates for rocket parts or metal an stuff like that. it still has fuel and equipment and stuffs.

It dosent really matter, ive just lost the will again. spent 2 days rebuilding the save, and fresh installing and testing everything. and after 3 hours of play putting down the new base it wont save quicksave, drop to load or any of that. im afraid its dead. there shall be no  more eve playthrough.

[Space Kadet]

after a bit of digging, it might be because the omni converters template file in templates/crp dosent have them listed, but i thought they where at one point, becaue my orriogional auto base didnt neew external refiners melters or rocket par makers. 

I remember @Angel-125 saying somthing about dropping support for crp and ive not read up in a few months so maybe this if part of it.

[capi3101]

@Space Kadet which version of KIS do you have installed? If you're running anything after KIS 1.16, you need to roll it back to there. Try that and see if it helps.

[Space Kadet]

1 hour ago, capi3101 said:

@Space Kadet which version of KIS do you have installed? If you're running anything after KIS 1.16, you need to roll it back to there. Try that and see if it helps.

ok im curious, how dose that affect the converters? i definatly have the latest Kis installed, ill give it a shot later