[1.12.5] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.14.0 "металл" 30/Sep/2024)

[CobaltWolf]

Someone riddle me this. If the S-3D in the Juno produced ~600 Kn of thrust, and the Thor's LR-79 produced ~750 Kn of thrust, how was Juno IVA/B supposed to fly unassisted? I've never seen any reference to using strap on motors for it. What gives? Thor needed SRBs for far smaller upper stages + payloads. 

On that note - Juno is still 1.7m but I'm considering making it 1.5m. I can't find anything else that would live in that size range so it seems fairly pointless to add another size. I would be scaling it down since the engine would have to be less powerful than Thor. All those in favor say 'aye'.

@fs10inator Looking good! Using Editor Extensions?

If I survive this work day I'll be trying to stream a bit tonight. Finish texturing the Juno engines and get more progress made on Castor-120. @VenomousRequiem would Castor-30 be done tonight?

[fs10inator]

2 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

@fs10inator Looking good! Using Editor Extensions?

Yes. In fact, the H-I and N-II are the only reasons why I have EE.

Edited February 14, 2016 by fs10inator

[VenomousRequiem]

10 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

@VenomousRequiem would Castor-30 be done tonight?

You know it.

Also... Aye!

Edited February 14, 2016 by VenomousRequiem

[Jso]

14 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

@Jso just use a procedural fairing.

Well that was dumb of me. I was sitting here the whole time wishing someone would make a procedural interstage fairing. Forget I asked :-)

 

15 hours ago, Foxxonius Augustus said:

the other option would be to add fuel to them and move them to fuel tanks... or why not both? Same model and same texture, maybe higher dry mass on the tanks than the structural adapters for balance?

I'm not filling the tanks as it is. The DM-18/19/21 (the Thor-Thor) holds less fuel than it's size would suggest.

[CobaltWolf]

Just now, Jso said:

Well that was dumb of me. I was sitting here the whole time wishing someone would make a procedural interstage fairing. Forget I asked :-)

I'm not filling the tanks as it is. The DM-18/19/21 (the Thor-Thor) holds less fuel than it's size would suggest.

Just remember the BDB PF parts don't include any interstages. 

Also, @TimothyC widebody Titan and IUS have been added to the 'todo' for BDB 0.11. Figured we'd get them out of the way. Shoutout to @VenomousRequiem for finally learning a real modeling program and thus starting to give me models that I can actually use without rebuilding the whole thing using Maya's modeling techniques. Looks like it might help speed things along. Unfortunately it doesn't particularly help this update seeing as most of the stuff is already modeled. 

[Jso]

2 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

Someone riddle me this. If the S-3D in the Juno produced ~600 Kn of thrust, and the Thor's LR-79 produced ~750 Kn of thrust, how was Juno IVA/B supposed to fly unassisted? I've never seen any reference to using strap on motors for it. What gives? Thor needed SRBs for far smaller upper stages + payloads. 

TWR = Thrust in kn / (Gross Mass tons * 9.82)

That's it, period, end of story. If that doesn't look right either your reference material is wrong, or you're missing something. Got a link to your reference?

[CobaltWolf]

Just now, Jso said:

TWR = Thrust in kn / (Gross Mass tons * 9.82)

That's it, period, end of story. If that doesn't look right either your reference material is wrong, or you're missing something. Got a link to your reference?

Well, the only real source that I can find is this. There are a lot of mentions of the rocket, but that is the only illustration I can find. 

[Foxxonius Augustus]

5 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

I might try and sneak the cryogenic upper stage into the Centaur revamp next update, see if anyone notices. (0_0)

I will! I will!

[Jso]

59 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

43 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

 

 

This editor is giving me a headache. I can't delete the above.

44 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

Well, the only real source that I can find is this. There are a lot of mentions of the rocket, but that is the only illustration I can find.

Here's too much information.

So.. it's an s-3D engine? This is incomplete information, but working backwards go with these numbers:

Isp Vac 275, SL 247.

Thrust Vac 667. That gives you 599 SL thrust. Close enough.

That engine get's a 1.2 TWR at 51 metric tons (112,436 lbs).

[Foxxonius Augustus]

10 minutes ago, Jso said:

This editor is giving me a headache. I can't delete the above.

Here's too much information.

So.. it's an s-3D engine? This is incomplete information, but working backwards go with these numbers:

Isp Vac 275, SL 247.

Thrust Vac 667. That gives you 599 SL thrust. Close enough.

That engine get's a 1.2 TWR at 51 metric tons (112,436 lbs).

Who did you find that? Please teach me oh great google-fu Master!

[CobaltWolf]

23 minutes ago, Jso said:

Here's too much information.

So.. it's an s-3D engine? This is incomplete information, but working backwards go with these numbers:

Isp Vac 275, SL 247.

Thrust Vac 667. That gives you 599 SL thrust. Close enough.

That engine get's a 1.2 TWR at 51 metric tons (112,436 lbs).

You're a saint. There's even pictures! (though not pretty ones) I guess the 6K engine needs verniers as well. But I still don't understand then why Thor needed SRBs to lift smaller upper stages. Agena is smaller than the 6K stage.

Meanwhile, via SMS:

Venom - "This is all such a long list of parts. But it's so far away we have time."
Cobalt - "It's basically the next nine-twelve months of our lives."
Venom - "Uh huh... Saturn is like a child."
Cobalt - "It's exactly like a child. I'm not ready for the commitment yet."

Edited February 14, 2016 by CobaltWolf

[Jso]

That engine won't lift that rocket. It's got to be another engine. Something with about 750-800 SL thrust.

[CobaltWolf]

5 minutes ago, Jso said:

That engine won't lift that rocket. It's got to be another engine. Something with about 750-800 SL thrust.

None are mentioned anywhere. The entire point was that they were using off the shelf Jupiter hardware for the first stage. :/

Also, we now have a Google doc with the roadmap that hopefully will be kept updated. I'll link it in the OP.

[Jso]

8 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

None are mentioned anywhere. The entire point was that they were using off the shelf Jupiter hardware for the first stage. :/

Maybe they abandoned the project before getting around to uprating the first stage engine? I can't find any reference to it.

Edit: The procedural interstage fairing worked out nice:

 

Edited February 14, 2016 by Jso
sp

[Foxxonius Augustus]

1 hour ago, Jso said:

I'm not filling the tanks as it is. The DM-18/19/21 (the Thor-Thor) holds less fuel than it's size would suggest.

Exactly. Use the detanked structural adapters for the historical rockets but why not have fueled adapters for the wild and crazy things you can build instead of historical rockets. I figure it adds even more variety and helps with lego type builds. Plus its nearly memory free parts, what with using existing models and textures.

[CobaltWolf]

2 minutes ago, Foxxonius Augustus said:

Exactly. Use the detanked structural adapters for the historical rockets but why not have fueled adapters for the wild and crazy things you can build instead of historical rockets. I figure it adds even more variety and helps with lego type builds. Plus its nearly memory free parts, what with using existing models and textures.

I already said a bit earlier, but balance. The deltaV of the BDB rockets was way too high. You can easily re-add the fuel with cfg edits. I think they might even just be commented out, not deleted.

[DiscoSlelge]

Ambitious road map Cobalt ! I'm excited, just for fun, I've found this things

Edited February 14, 2016 by DiscoSlelge

[Foxxonius Augustus]

5 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

I already said a bit earlier, but balance. The deltaV of the BDB rockets was way too high. You can easily re-add the fuel with cfg edits. I think they might even just be commented out, not deleted.

I must be missing something, how can a tank be unbalanced? Unless your tanks have higher fuel density tank volume is tank volume. I get that if you build replica rockets you wind up with to much dV compared to the real thing. But what about completely custom built "lego" rockets? I am not saying that you should just give all the adapters fuel. I agree that if all you want is an adapter for structure than it would be helpful to have adapters that didn't have fuel and didn't have tank texture inside getting in the way. Why not have both?

p.s. There are times when I really don't like text communication, it can make misunderstanding each other an annoyingly easy thing to do. (Note: I may have misunderstood something others have said)

[Jso]

5 minutes ago, Foxxonius Augustus said:

I must be missing something, how can a tank be unbalanced? Unless your tanks have higher fuel density tank volume is tank volume. I get that if you build replica rockets you wind up with to much dV compared to the real thing. But what about completely custom built "lego" rockets? I am not saying that you should just give all the adapters fuel. I agree that if all you want is an adapter for structure than it would be helpful to have adapters that didn't have fuel and didn't have tank texture inside getting in the way. Why not have both?

Balance is probably the wrong word. The parts themselves were balanced. The fuel they contributed was minuscule, and the tanks tab was getting cluttered as the part count grew.

[CobaltWolf]

26 minutes ago, DiscoSlelge said:

Ambitious road map Cobalt ! I'm excited, just for fun, I've found this things

I've seen that before! I'm not sure what I'd do for it though. As it stands, I'm probably making an LRV to be included in SEP, sooo yeah. 

12 minutes ago, Foxxonius Augustus said:

I must be missing something, how can a tank be unbalanced? Unless your tanks have higher fuel density tank volume is tank volume. I get that if you build replica rockets you wind up with to much dV compared to the real thing. But what about completely custom built "lego" rockets? I am not saying that you should just give all the adapters fuel. I agree that if all you want is an adapter for structure than it would be helpful to have adapters that didn't have fuel and didn't have tank texture inside getting in the way. Why not have both?

p.s. There are times when I really don't like text communication, it can make misunderstanding each other an annoyingly easy thing to do. (Note: I may have misunderstood something others have said)

I want BDB parts to expand the selection of parts available to the player. I don't want BDB parts to be the only parts worth using. The parts are meant to be balanced for a career mode playthrough. Having fuel crammed into all the adapters increased the deltaV of rockets too much. The parts were whacked with a major nerf stick last month to try and balance their performance to something approaching their real life performance. In many IRL rockets, such adapters are indeed structural. 

It's like... I could just make a small fuel tank that has a ton of fuel, like way way too much. It makes the game easier in the same way. Like I said, edit the cfgs. I believe the old fuel values are still in there just commented out.

EDIT: Also I'm looking to start streaming in about an hour (~6pm PST). I'm still at the computer lab trying to get some animation done. My desktop doesn't have enough RAM to keep up.

Edited February 14, 2016 by CobaltWolf

[Foxxonius Augustus]

12 minutes ago, Jso said:

Balance is probably the wrong word. The parts themselves were balanced. The fuel they contributed was minuscule, and the tanks tab was getting cluttered as the part count grew.

Ahh, I long ago came to grips with the fact that I am the only one who doesn't mind VAB clutter. I just find the form factor of many of the adapters very useful for small upper stages is all.

Edited February 14, 2016 by Foxxonius Augustus

[Kalidor]

1 hour ago, CobaltWolf said:

Venom - "This is all such a long list of parts. But it's so far away we have time."
Cobalt - "It's basically the next nine-twelve months of our lives."
Venom - "Uh huh... Saturn is like a child."
Cobalt - "It's exactly like a child. I'm not ready for the commitment yet."

What if we got you and Ven drunk?

Could it be a drunken one-night stand child so we get it sooner...?

[davidy12]

6 minutes ago, Kalidor said:

What if we got you and Ven drunk?

Could it be a drunken one-night stand child so we get it sooner...?

Agreed. Also, my Saturn I LONGS for a lower stage tank.

[Foxxonius Augustus]

Cobalt is streaming Right Now!!!

Edited February 15, 2016 by Foxxonius Augustus

[Sgt.Shutesie]

He better be streaming when I get back on Wi-Fi...