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[1.12.5] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.14.0 "металл" 30/Sep/2024)


CobaltWolf

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That looks fairly close to the real thing, the only difference is that the real single chamber had a vertical axis for the turbopump when tested with LH2 as the fuel:

 

lr87lh2.jpg

 

Yes, I remember that Prometheus is not Titan, and I do think what you have looks good and fits with the other engines very well.

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8 minutes ago, TimothyC said:

That looks fairly close to the real thing, the only difference is that the real single chamber had a vertical axis for the turbopump when tested with LH2 as the fuel:

Yes, I remember that Prometheus is not Titan, and I do think what you have looks good and fits with the other engines very well.

Oh... Venom should we have LH2 RP effects for that engine then?

I'll see what I can do. I think that would look cool but I'm limited by the shapes and textures that are present in the original model.

@Foxxonius Augustus All the Titan first stage engines now how working fairings and bottom nodes.

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10 minutes ago, VenomousRequiem said:

If that's what it used in real life, I'll give it a Hydrolox plume. No problem. The LR-87 is such an interesting engine! Having run off of pretty much every available fuel a different times. 

It's the only engine that ran off the three main types of propellant - RP-1, Hydrolox, and Aerozine-50/Storable Propellants.

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41 minutes ago, davidy12 said:

@CobaltWolf: Just curious, what is the SSR-2700 for (What's its Real life Rocket)? 

I'm sure someone can come up with 6 other variants I've missed, but I've been using:

SSR-860 Adapter Fuel Tank, SSR-880 Liquid Fuel Tank, SSR-460 Liquid Fuel Tank (fuel removed), SSR-215 "Odin" Liquid Engine for the basic DM-21 Thor-Thor.

SSR-2700 Liquid Fuel Tank, SSR-215 "Odin" Liquid Engine for the Long Tank Thor/Thorad.

SSR-2700 Liquid Fuel Tank, SSR-460 Liquid Fuel Tank, Daleth-SSR-27a "Fenris" Liquid Engine for the Extended Length Thor/Delta 2000-5000.

Daleth-2-1500 Liquid Fuel Tank, Daleth-2-2200 Liquid Fuel Tank, Daleth-SSR-27a "Fenris" Liquid Engine for the Extra Extended Length Thor/Delta II 6000-7000.

Edited by Jso
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He he, the Daleth I is about the only set of BDB engine parts that always use together in the correct order. Every thing else is usually mix-matched. I don't know if I've ever randomly actually assembled it "correctly" lol, so I just end up with a ton of variants. It is very good that parts can be used this way. I just got to the Tier in my career save where I unlocked Daleth II and I think Prometheus II, I'm excited!

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55 minutes ago, akron said:

He he, the Daleth I is about the only set of BDB engine parts that always use together in the correct order. Every thing else is usually mix-matched. I don't know if I've ever randomly actually assembled it "correctly" lol, so I just end up with a ton of variants. It is very good that parts can be used this way. I just got to the Tier in my career save where I unlocked Daleth II and I think Prometheus II, I'm excited!

The Thor (SSR) parts were never really made with a specific assembly order. The other rockets that have multi part tanks (specifically Prometheus) were made with a specific order in mind.

53 minutes ago, TimothyC said:

@CobaltWolf Those are Castor 120 and 30s aren't they?

Yes. @VenomousRequiem made them over the weekend. I UV unwrapped them this morning and textured them in class.

46 minutes ago, hoojiwana said:

Those are pretty nice! The subtle flat panels work very well, and the paint wear effect is neat.

Thanks Hooj! I think I actually learned that effect when you posted your first pass on your stock SRB revamps. I was struggling with how to do them, since the real ones are more or less perfectly smooth, I believe fiberglass outer shells. I might actually get rid of some or all the panel lines.

21 minutes ago, Sgt.Shutesie said:

What diameter are those SRBs?

1.5m. Works out well, since then they both fill the niche of 1.5m SRBs and also means they can carry an Agena for their payload. They can be used to make both the real life Athena I/II LV as well as the Carrack from Eyes Turned Skywards. Venom made them (I think without being prompted) while she was learning Maya. Much easier than trying to work with a Wings file.

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12 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

Thanks Hooj! I think I actually learned that effect when you posted your first pass on your stock SRB revamps. I was struggling with how to do them, since the real ones are more or less perfectly smooth, I believe fiberglass outer shells. I might actually get rid of some or all the panel lines.

Check out the stock Mk55 "Thud", the paint effect that @Porkjet did on that is amazing. It's got what looks like different coats of paint that really makes it look genuine, like a layer of primer beneath the orange.

Edited by hoojiwana
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Martin had many many "fat core" Titan projects proposed.

Titan IIIG was the first, and would have been a 180" diameter core and would have had option of two UA-1207 or UA-1565 (156" diam 5 segment SRM) boosters, and would have had four engines. No idea if these were stock LR87s or the 'cut down' single chamber LR87s of only 226 klbf used in Titan IIIL-1207-4 (Spread).

Titan IIIL-1207-4 (Spread) had a 192" core and would have been the booster for the Grumman H-33 Shuttle Orbiter.

Titan IIIL 2/4/6 (Straight) had a 196" core.

Titan IIIM (LDC) (LDC = Large Diameter Core).

Will edit to add more information.

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10 minutes ago, davidy12 said:

NICE SRBs!!! 

What are they for?

4efcda6185e98de15c8def9e6bf39a55.jpg

1 hour ago, CobaltWolf said:

1.5m. Works out well, since then they both fill the niche of 1.5m SRBs and also means they can carry an Agena for their payload. They can be used to make both the real life Athena I/II LV as well as the Carrack from Eyes Turned Skywards.

1 hour ago, CobaltWolf said:

1 HOUR AGO

 

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Any chance a properly kerbalized Navaho series of engines could be done?

They form the "missing link" between the early V-2 style engines and heavily simplified (Redstone) engines and the Atlas/Thor/Delta engine configurations.

The Navaho engines were:

Navaho Phase I

Notes: Two German-built V-2 engines were reconditioned for this phase, which consisted of taking the engines and operating it with water substituted for propellants at flow rates corresponding to 56,000 lbf of thrust for 64 seconds.

Rocketdyne XLR-41-NA-1 (Navaho Phase II)

Notes: Simplified V-2 engine made from US-built parts and built to US pipe size and fitting standards. Was water-flow tested, and as it was ready to be hot fired; the program was cancelled in favor of hot testing the early US-designed thrust chambers that would eventually lead to the Redstone NAA-75-110.

 

XLR-41-NA-1_Comparison.png

Rocketdyne XLR-43-NA-1 (Navaho Phase III)

Propellants: LOX/Alcohol-Water 75%
Thrust (sl): 75,000 lbf
Chamber Pressure: 300 psia
Rated Lifetime: 60 seconds

Notes: Developed for Navaho missile booster which would push the missile to Mach 2.85 at 38,000 feet before burnout. Test fired ahead of schedule in May 1950. This engine formed the basis for the Redstone’s NA 75-110 A-1 to 7 engine.

Rocketdyne XLR-43-NA-3 (Navaho Phase IV)

Propellants: LOX / 92.5% Alcohol, 7.5% Water, Gas Generator
Thrust (sl): 120,000 lbf at 230 ISP
Dry Weight: 1,230 lb
T/W (sl): 97.5

Notes: First US engine to use “spaghetti” (tubular wall) configuration for the thrust chamber, which reduced weight by 50%. A high speed turbopump was developed for this engine which used a gas generator that was powered by the propellants themselves, eliminating the need for a separate hydrogen peroxide tank to run the turbopump.

Rocketdyne XLR-71-NA-1 (G-26 Navaho II / Navaho Phase V)

Propellants: LOX / 92.5% Alcohol, 7.5% Water, Gas Generator
O/F Ratio: 1.375
Thrust (sl): 240,000 lbf @ 229 ISP
Thrust (vac): 278,000 lbf @ 265 ISP
Chamber Pressure: 438 psia
Dry Weight: 2,501 lbs
T/W Ratio (sl): 95.96
T/W Ratio (vac): 111.15
Engine Length: 117 inches
Engine Diameter: 77 inches
Expansion Area Ratio (ε = Ae/At): 4.6
Rated Lifetime: 65~ seconds

Notes: “Doubled up” version of XLR-43-NA-3 with two thrust chambers. This engine proved the feasibility of running two separate thrust chambers fed off a single common gas generator, but retaining separate turbopumps. First test fired September 1953.

XLR-71-NA-1.png

Rocketdyne XLR-83-NA-1 (G-38 Navaho III / Navaho Phase VI)

Thrust (sl): 405,000 lbf @ 245 ISP
Propellants: LOX / JP-5
Rated Lifetime: 93 to 100 seconds

Notes: “Tripled up” version of XLR-43-NA-3 with three thrust chambers and modified with better cooling to allow the burning of hydrocarbon fuel. Each thrust chamber had it’s own turbopump, but all three chambers were fed off a single common gas generator. First fired January 1956.

XLR-83-NA-1_DWG.png

 

XLR-83-NA-1.png

Navaho Engine Development in Retrospective

Despite the program being canceled before any operational missiles could be deployed, the Navaho engines helped rocket technology in the United States take a dramatic leap forward.

Instead of a simple welded sheet metal thrust chamber (Redstone and earlier), Navaho pioneered the brazed regeneratively cooled tube wall thrust chamber. Additionally, instead of using HTP to drive the engine turbopump, a bipropellant gas generator which used the same propellants as the engine itself was used; eliminating run time limitations imposed by HTP tank sizes.

Finally, the Mark 3 turbopump which was used in various forms on the Thor, Atlas, and Saturn I/IB engines was introduced with Navaho.

**************************************

Essentially, you don't need to do all of these engines; just Navaho Phase IV / Navaho Phase V / Navaho Phase VI; which are basically "lets add more combustion chambers for MOAR THRUST".

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3 minutes ago, MKSheppard said:

Any chance a properly kerbalized Navaho series of engines could be done?

They form the "missing link" between the early V-2 style engines and heavily simplified (Redstone) engines and the Atlas/Thor/Delta engine configurations.


Essentially, you don't need to do all of these engines; just Navaho Phase IV / Navaho Phase V / Navaho Phase VI; which are basically "lets add more combustion chambers for MOAR THRUST".

I have a Navaho written into my list as a two-chamber starting tech engine. But I leave it to @VenomousRequiem to get it modeled. :P

Speaking of old booze rockets, does anyone actually care about Redstone revamp? I am considering cutting that and several other things that I don't feel like doing anymore.

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1 minute ago, CobaltWolf said:

Speaking of old booze rockets, does anyone actually care about Redstone revamp? I am considering cutting that and several other things that I don't feel like doing anymore.

Depends on what it might look like afterward, it doesn't look the best for the tank atm.

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