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[1.12.5] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.14.0 "металл" 30/Sep/2024)


CobaltWolf

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1 minute ago, VenomousRequiem said:

No, no, RealismOverhaul makes it real scale, real fuels support with real fuel consumption, limited ignitions, the whole 9 yards. 

Wonderful! Is this included with the mod, or is it a separate config file, or is it included in the RO download?

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2 minutes ago, einstein72 said:

Wonderful! Is this included with the mod, or is it a separate config file, or is it included in the RO download?

It's included in RO. I'm pretty sure they were wrote with the previous update of the mod, so I don't think the Saturn engines are included, and it is just the engines.  If you want more, I'm going to go ahead and throw @Niemand303 under the bus. :P

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On ‎8‎/‎7‎/‎2016 at 8:27 PM, VenomousRequiem said:

Mod list? Log? Please and thank you. :wink:

Hey all, sorry for the long delay but I think it was a conflict with some of the mods I was using, particularly imo was the DMscience animate, but  a new install and fresh mods got it working :)

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4 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

To add more fuel to the fire, our (meaning me, @Jso, and @VenomousRequiem) current concerns / things that have been brought up and need to be answered:

  • Accuracy - truly accurate scaling would mean a 4.25m S-IVB, which isn't even a 0.625m size. But, we've tried really hard to keep everything accurate and balanced relative to their real world counterparts, and each other. Making it less accurate (generally, smaller) means it will perform worse, possibly to the point that when running a proper rescale to make things closer to their IRL performance, the SV might not be able to actually carry out an Apollo flight.
  • Balance - As Jso has pointed out to me, a 5.625m Saturn V has HALF the LFO of a 6.25m Saturn V. In his words, 'changes in diameter in this scale are non-trivial'. Changing the fuel then changes the engine balance, etc. The F1s/J2s would then risk over/underperforming, etc.
  • Size - @Araym showed that the 5.625m Saturn V just BARELY fits into the VAB. I would rather not force players to use subassemblies or something to properly assemble a Saturn V. Or rather, I don't want to make things too complicated for the player.

If I may, just for fun I did compile a list of all the Saturn Series (including INT variants) all the way to the dreaded Saturn V-4X(U), most of them should fit inside the VAB if downsizing diameter and length, shouldn't they? I mean 5m or so to spare isn't really a whole lot of room, but they could fit :cool:

Edited by Abrecan
new info!
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Just my two cents about the Sarnus V diameter thing:

I've built several approximate Saturn Vs in the past, most of the time using SpaceY 5m parts for S-IC and S-II, 3.75m tanks for S-IVB and a 2.5m mostly stock CSM. With a little bit of tinkering it looks about right. You mentioned the issue of cryogenic fuels, I use Nertea's Cryo Engines extensively and with J2s for the 2nd and 3rd stages the rocket is quite overpowered in stock, well balanced for a 2X rescale mod, maybe a bit weak for 3X. Just like most of BDB, so I guess a 5.625m would fit perfectly balance-wise.

I won't lie though, 6.25m would be a really nice size to have and would look better when compared with other heavy lift vehicles like the SLS or the Shuttle. You wouldn't necessarily have to rescale the Sarnus I parts to 4.25m, with a 5.625m S-IC the CSM is a bit too wide but still looks ok, it might be the same for a 3.75m S-IVB with a 6.25m first stage too. To address excessive fuel capacities and size with that tank width you could make it a little bit shorter than the real thing, people are used to KSP rockets being much stubbier than real world ones so it wouldn't look too odd I think.

And concerning the VAB issue, I think it's not really a problem at all. I never used Hangar Extender and managed to build truly gigantic rockets with 7.5m parts from SpaceY, using only the offset tool to get around the camera limitations. The VAB was never intended to build something bigger than 3.75m, but when someone really wants to make something as crazy as Saturn V, they find a way.

Edited by PickledTripod
Fixing typo
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1 hour ago, PickledTripod said:

~snip~

And concerning the VAB issue, I think it's not really a problem at all. I never used Hangar Extender and managed to build truly gigantic rockets with 7.5m parts from SpaceY, using only the offset tool to get around the camera limitations. The VAB was never intended to build something bigger than 3.75m, but when someone really wants to make something as crazy as Saturn V, they find a way.

This.

imho VAB size shouldn't work into the discussion too heavily as there are numerous work arounds to that problem and mods on top of that.

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Here's what the 4.25/6.5 and 3.75/5.625 meter look like side by side. The S-IV goes from 3.125 to 3.75 at the 4.25/6.5 scale. I didn't have any difficulty manipulating this in the VAB and it does fit under the rafters.

ZnvFv4Y.png

Performance wise with a 48 ton payload:

  4.25/6.5 3.75/5.625

4.25/6.5 cryo

3.75/5.625 cryo
S-IC dv 1,977 1,900 2,729 2,582
S-II dv 3,345 3,009 3,264 2,800
S-IVB dv 3,335 2,714 2,562 1,987
Total dv 8,657 7,624 8,556 7,370
Launch Mass 1,424.5 t 949.6 t 1,151.4 t 772.4 t
F1 Thrust 1.17 twr 3,750 kN 2,500 kN 3,025 kN 2,025 kN

On stock Kerbin all are capable of reaching orbit with the second stage. We can probably cheat the numbers down a little with some creative rounding of the tank capacities.

 

Edited by Jso
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11 minutes ago, DarthVader said:

can you add a different skirt to the RD-180 for use in the Atlas 2AR?

 also, you changed the name of the Gemini RCS block and it broke my GPS sat constellation

Kinda busy right now but I'll get to it :wink:

We had a warning in the update post and the changelog. You can fix it by installing TRAILS standalone.

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21 minutes ago, DarthVader said:

My Apollo is blue as well

18 minutes ago, NeoFatalis said:

my apollo is also purple (it sounds really bad:D)

I just uploaded a commit to GitHub that (hopefully) fixes that. Can one of you (or someone) check and see if I did it right?

EDIT:

20 hours ago, Rory Yammomoto said:

562 cm is still sort of easy to write.... I would prefer a small redution to a nice round number...

I will eat your babies.

Edited by CobaltWolf
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7 hours ago, Jso said:

Here's what the 4.25/6.5 and 3.75/5.625 meter look like side by side. The S-IV goes from 3.125 to 3.75 at the 4.25/6.5 scale. I didn't have any difficulty manipulating this in the VAB and it does fit under the rafters.

This is the best argument I've seen for 3.75/5.625. The scale looks right. The tank size is .625m over the "standard" next biggest size after 3.75m. And the height will take it to the top of the VAB doors without stretching believability. Plus, no rescale of the Saturn 1/CSM/LM means those parts will still be easily used with other part sets because they sit in the 2.5m/3.75m stock sizes.

Playing in K2Scale, the numbers for the 3.75m/5.625m set looks just right to get a full stack into orbit and TLI without much left in the tank. And additionally, the smaller size keeps the Saturn more "stock-a-like", which is a real charm of this mod pack.

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2 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

Kinda busy right now but I'll get to it :wink:

We had a warning in the update post and the changelog. You can fix it by installing TRAILS standalone.

 

Could you please look into the issue for the textures that we're getting.

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Figured out there is a preview feature in the DDS exporter, I was able to verify that they theoretically look correct in game. I did that and uploaded them while I ate lunch - I'm at my old apartment cleaning it today, so I probably won't get another shot until tomorrow. Download the new versions from Github.

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