rlin Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 10 minutes ago, GDJ said: Maybe there is a old hydrogen bomb in the basement of the admin building? What would it be doing there? Bombs aren't really their thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDJ Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 1 minute ago, rlin said: What would it be doing there? Bombs aren't really their thing. Just going along with Torgo's theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpha 360 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 (edited) What is the Kerbulan's plan anyway? What is there to destroy other than the KSC? The old airfield? The old KSC? The Pyramids? Also why are they attacking Kerbin, are they just plain evil? Or are there evil dictators that oppress the good civilians? Because Werhner was Kerbualain, wasn't he? So, will Kerbfleet have to rescue the planet of Kerbula. Awesome! Edited January 9, 2017 by Alpha 360 "Kouston, we have several problems, but that doesn't matter so we want to continue on with the mission." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RA3236 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 3 hours ago, Alpha 360 said: What is the Kerbulan's plan anyway? What is there to destroy other than the KSC? The old airfield? The old KSC? The Pyramids? Also why are they attacking Kerbin, are they just plain evil? Or are there evil dictators that oppress the good civilians? Because Werhner was Kerbualain, wasn't he? So, will Kerbfleet have to rescue the planet of Kerbula. Awesome! In the actual story, the Kerbulans have mistaken the Inteprid and other craft to be weapons of mass destruction, sooo.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alchemist Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 What do people not used to fighting do when under attack? They are unlikely to wage a war... but if they have the resources (and let's be honest - a space rocket capable of precision orbital insertion makes a viable kinetic weapon, especially if the Chief Designer had that option in mind) they may as well restore the peace by blowing the aggressor up. It's even not the question of deliberately hurting somebody (even if they started first) - just to neutralize the source of danger by whatever means necessary before even more damage is done. Even if they have no concept of deliberate violence, a civilization of this tech level must have the concept technogenic disasters and the ways to deal with those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cydonian Monk Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 21 minutes ago, Alchemist said: What do people not used to fighting do when under attack? Run away. As propagandized detailed by Julius Caeser himself, under pressure and threat from Germanic tribes the Helvetii were planning to migrate en-masse to the Atlantic coast. This threatened the stability of Gaul and the interests of Rome, forcing Caeser to rob them to pay his debts protect the interests of Rome. Perhaps these pesky kerbal antagonists are likewise planning to migrate to Laythe, thereby forcing Kerbulus to keep the peace? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dman979 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 30 minutes ago, Alchemist said: What do people not used to fighting do when under attack? They are unlikely to wage a war... but if they have the resources (and let's be honest - a space rocket capable of precision orbital insertion makes a viable kinetic weapon, especially if the Chief Designer had that option in mind) they may as well restore the peace by blowing the aggressor up. It's even not the question of deliberately hurting somebody (even if they started first) - just to neutralize the source of danger by whatever means necessary before even more damage is done. Even if they have no concept of deliberate violence, a civilization of this tech level must have the concept technogenic disasters and the ways to deal with those. Well, yeah, but that's people who are not used to fighting- they have fought, but not often. What to you do when your society doesn't even have the concept of intentional violence? The Kerbals see absolutely no reason to harm one another, so why would that concept not extend to others? To put it another way- Why trade a new, unknown concept for one that has worked since presumably forever? (Kuzzter hasn't mentioned what happened in the Year Before the Year Before the Year Before Year Zero.) The Kerbals are a scientific people, they know what works and what doesn't, so why get rid of a perfectly good and working societal model? What happens when a peaceful utopia meets a violent society? This is why I'm really quite excited to see how Kuzzter handles this. My own prediction is that it will be a non-violent response, primarily concerned with protection instead of aggression. But who knows, except for Kuzzter himself? Your idea could end up being correct, instead of mine! Right now, though, I don't think it's likely. However, if you can find evidence- not just conjecture, but evidence- the other way, you could very well convert me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torgo Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 We know the smooth-faced little green guys are going to win because Kuzzter is not George RR Martin (although he really could be and his frequent updates here could be causing the delays in publishing book #6). They know of death. Afterall, they are not immortal, and even have a sign on the wall counting the number of days since the last fatality. So technologically induced accidental death is not foreign. Someone deliberately causing a death is. The next story, no matter where the author decides to go (and I advocate for no particular place here), will have a good deal of content just in dealing with the Kerbals exposure to a non non-violent civilization and the longer lasting effects of cross-cultural contamination. The cat is out of the bag now. How do they go back to non-violence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dman979 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Just now, Torgo said: (although he really could be and his frequent updates here could be causing the delays in publishing book #6). I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Mr. Martin doesn't own a green external frame Kelty to go hiking in the Adirondacks with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSK Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Dman979 said: Well, yeah, but that's people who are not used to fighting- they have fought, but not often. What to you do when your society doesn't even have the concept of intentional violence? The Kerbals see absolutely no reason to harm one another, so why would that concept not extend to others? Possibly I'm reading too much into this but look at what Gene said: "You don't know the words 'attack' or 'hostile' " - emphasis added. Now I'm not sure if Gene is simply addressing the fourth wall there for convenience or whether he's implying that although KSC personnel don't know the words, that he (and possibly others) do. So perhaps @Kuzzter's kerbals (and wouldn't that make an awesome name for a band ) aren't quite as peaceful as they appear. Also, whilst I think the Kerbulans are fairly obviously the villains of the piece, consider some of that Kerbfleet hardware when seen through their eyes. Certainly that Gliido looks awfully like a warplane - and a rather lethal one at that - unless you knew otherwise. Which they don't. As for a response, Fleigenstrudel jokes aside, my money is on a Crowning Moment of Awesome (possibly a posthumous one) from Kenlie. After all, he knows the Kerbulans better than anyone else in Kerbfleet except possibly Wernher. Having Kenlie finally do some of the stuff that he's only ever written about until now, seems narratively appropriate too. Edited January 9, 2017 by KSK Gah - stupid homonyms. Villains of the peace indeed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dman979 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 3 minutes ago, KSK said: Now I'm not sure if Gene is simply addressing the fourth wall there for convenience or whether he's implying that although KSC personnel don't know the words, that he (and possibly others) do. That's correct, Gene and Wherner both know what they mean. A part of the cliffhanger is if Shirley knows- "That's where I come in, my dears." 13 minutes ago, KSK said: wouldn't that make an awesome name for a band Absolutely. 13 minutes ago, KSK said: As for a response, Fleigenstrudel jokes aside, my money is on a Crowning Moment of Awesome (possibly a posthumous one) from Kenlie. After all, he knows the Kerbulans better than anyone else in Kerbfleet except possibly Wernher. Having Kenlie finally do some of the stuff that he's only ever written about until now, seems narratively appropriate too. I agree. The first story from Kenlie seems particularly relevant here, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSK Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 12 minutes ago, Dman979 said: That's correct, Gene and Wherner both know what they mean. A part of the cliffhanger is if Shirley knows- "That's where I come in, my dears." D'oh. Of course - Gene could have learned both words from Wernher. OK, forget my first paragraph. I stand by my Kenlie prediction though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Dilsby Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 Really enjoying this discussion--you're asking all the right questions! So hey, let's not leave the Admiral hanging mid sentence any longer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDJ Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 You've been busy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alchemist Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 17 minutes ago, Dman979 said: Well, yeah, but that's people who are not used to fighting- they have fought, but not often. What to you do when your society doesn't even have the concept of intentional violence? The Kerbals see absolutely no reason to harm one another, so why would that concept not extend to others? To put it another way- Why trade a new, unknown concept for one that has worked since presumably forever? (Kuzzter hasn't mentioned what happened in the Year Before the Year Before the Year Before Year Zero.) The Kerbals are a scientific people, they know what works and what doesn't, so why get rid of a perfectly good and working societal model? What happens when a peaceful utopia meets a violent society? To look at it from the other side, a society used to groups of people proving their points by long-term armed conflicts also develops quite a few inhibitions aimed at somewhat containing the mutual destructiveness of conflicts (and at least we have seen duels between Kerbulans, even if their ruling faction may lack some of the other typical things), many of them along the lines of "fair fight" and "warrior honor". Which can often be considered quite hypocritical due to increasing long-term damage by making the state of perpetual war bearable and thus somewhat "normal". Lack of those inhibitions will first of all mean no special kind of respect towards enemy soldiers - for a nonviolent culture those are no better than a bunch of heavily armed criminals. And when forced to make decision between wiping out an enemy army and letting you own people get killed, the decision may come even easier (if you have a way to end it quickly, and a single warship can be destroyed in one decisive strike) Another reverse effect may be that if you can't imagine people intentionally doing such things, you may think there's no real people in direct control of the warship (although Gene clearly explained that part) or even knowing there's somebody at the controls still perceive the ship as a dangerous thing that has to be destroyed, not as a vessel with a living crew that would die with it Another thing - a science-oriented culture is likely to be non-violent due to understanding that mutual destructiveness is always inferior to creative cooperation, but that doesn't exclude measures to stop somebody in a hypothetical situation this somebody uses something dangerous to force others. To be fair, these measures don't even have to be widely known among those who are too reasonable to do anything really stupid - and just be hinted in case somebody needs proof that aggression will get them nowhere. Just this time it went straight to the point of full-scale demonstration... 21 minutes ago, Dman979 said: A part of the cliffhanger is if Shirley knows- "That's where I come in, my dears." ... yes, that would make sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSK Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Not just yeah but HECK YEAH! And the 'Kuzzter' award for 'most gratuitous use of spiky bits on a peaceful exploration vessel' goes to... Admiral Shirley! Let's give her a big hand y'all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelo Kerman Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 55 minutes ago, KSK said: Possibly I'm reading too much into this but look at what Gene said: "You don't know the words 'attack' or 'hostile' " - emphasis added. Now I'm not sure if Gene is simply addressing the fourth wall there for convenience or whether he's implying that although KSC personnel don't know the words, that he (and possibly others) do. So perhaps @Kuzzter's kerbals (and wouldn't that make an awesome name for a band ) aren't quite as peaceful as they appear. Also, whilst I think the Kerbulans are fairly obviously the villains of the piece, consider some of that Kerbfleet hardware when seen through their eyes. Certainly that Gliido looks awfully like a warplane - and a rather lethal one at that - unless you knew otherwise. Which they don't. As for a response, Fleigenstrudel jokes aside, my money is on a Crowning Moment of Awesome (possibly a posthumous one) from Kenlie. After all, he knows the Kerbulans better than anyone else in Kerbfleet except possibly Wernher. Having Kenlie finally do some of the stuff that he's only ever written about until now, seems narratively appropriate too. Kuzzter's Kerbals... sort of like Hogan's Heroes? Love that flying aircraft carrier too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dman979 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Just now, Angel-125 said: Kuzzter's Kerbals... sort of like Hogan's Heroes? Dun dun dun dun da-dada da dah... I'm curious where that ship came from. It's pretty awesome, but it feels a little Deus Ex Machina to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terwin Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 No reason to think that Kerbals are unfamiliar with the possibility of hazardous falling debris and the need to destroy them to prevent the loss of life. They may not have been prepared in time to protect the tracking station, but they have time to prepare now... Imagine the reactions of the Kerbulans when their missiles start getting blown out of the air. @Dman979 Looks a bit like the ship she was on when they recovered Wherner, may or may hot have had flight capability at that point, but there has been plenty of time to add it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1101 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Wait, the aircraft carrier can fly? It has landing gear...... It can land???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alchemist Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Another reason why it's not a wise decision to start a war against scientists (when they do have comparable numbers and resources, of course) is a possibility of everything being turned into weapons - sometimes quite unconventional. Plus, one of the typical states of panic for a logic-driven mind is pure cold logic. Potentially reaching quite sociopathic levels. But the first conclusion of this logic is that those who took weapons to use them against civilians are the ones who truly deserve to die in case the casualties are unavoidable - and no regrets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkOwl57 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 The sea? Where we're going we don't need "The sea" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Dilsby Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 54 minutes ago, Terwin said: Looks a bit like the ship she was on when they recovered Wherner, may or may hot have had flight capability at that point, but there has been plenty of time to add it... Correct! 80% of that ship is the same as the CV-6 KSS Enterprise from the Zweischenspiel. (see OP for link). I haven't given you a full plan look at it yet because I didn't want you to see the new 20% quite yet 48 minutes ago, 1101 said: Wait, the aircraft carrier can fly? Yes! Well, OK, not exactly...ALT-F12 may have been pressed at some point...files edited...laws of physics temporarily altered in a separate SAVE file...all for the sake of awesomeness... 48 minutes ago, 1101 said: It can land???? Umm...no. Those wheels would better be called "rolling down the runway into the water" gear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torgo Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 It CAN land. Once. Won't be useful for much afterwards, though, outside of scrap metal. Would be interesting to see Admiral Shirley 'landing' it onto Kerbulan HQ after sending the rest of the crew safely back to Kerbin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StupidAndy Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 a flying boat you say? didn't Jeb do that in one of the prototypes of the skimmeroo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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