Do You Consider MechJeb Cheating?

[SpaceplaneAddict]

KSP is single player, nothing is "cheating" unless the player says so.

 

I like MJ, but never trust th auto pilot for landing or ascent.

[joekidd1992]

As a newer player that put aside the game for awhile and have since come back within about the last 3 weeks, I'd probably have quit permanently long ago without Mechjeb. I tried docking without it and I couldn't do it. Then after awhile I used it to get close to the dock target and the last 200 meters I do manually just by looking at the navball and looking at the two docking ports with the naked eye. That part seems to be the easiest for me. I have about 470 hours in game - is that considered new? I don't know, but I rarely try to go further than Minmus, but several times have gone to Duna. I quit the first time because it was frustrating to me trying to get to Duna. I see people say, "Oh, you can build a spaceship with under 50 parts and go to Dun and back and I scream how???
 I don't want it spelled out for me, but I like it a little bit easier than just "Here are a bunch of parts. Throw them together and do deep space exploring."

This game can be very frustrating if you plan and build for hours and hours and then your carefully planned vehicle just fails miserably. I use Mechjeb for:

Circularize orbit.

Match planes with target

Fine tune approach to within 200 meters

Match velocities with target.

I have also used it for that Hoffman Transfer maneuver.

And I also use it to plan the Delta-V.

 

I don't consider it cheating. I would probably have uninstalled long ago without it.

[AlamoVampire]

@073198681 yes it would.

[WinkAllKerb'']

my main concern about mechjeb recently: xbox, ps4, wiiu ... aside that * i ll just bring some Chips' in addition to the popcorns Set' * ... nothing to do with there respective market audience. just sayin'

Edited December 28, 2015 by WinkAllKerb''

[Taowulf]

The only way to not cheat is to build a real rocket and launch it into space. Make sure you fly entirely by the seat of your pants, with no computer aids.

And no, I will not fly with you.

[Bloody_looser]

23 minutes ago, Taowulf said:

And no, I will not fly with you.

Suits your userpic.

[WinkAllKerb'']

*side of topics & alt+tab on*

not sure but, if i remind, i read somewhere that the wiki "may be" accessible within the game on thoose platforms, not sure anyway

this also, a bit outdated but anyway ... http://www.bigfishgames.com/blog/2013-gamers-survey-results-demographics-platforms-and-smartphone-use/

for exemple historically nintendo usually have a much larger part of younger & sparse family audience than the other two, without speaking of the R&D device part.
I made my grandmother playing a video game once, only once, it was the nintendo wiisports bowling, and she liked it ℗ because it was intuitive and accessible (her back stab liked a little less, but anyway bowling is kinda a physics things for a 80's elders : ), never been able to make her play on any other platforms.
This one of the thing i especially appreciate with nintendo, there ability and efforts they spend to cross'generations with gaming. Not sure what the ISS crew think about that, may be they should be ask.

*side of topics & alt+tab off*

Edited December 28, 2015 by WinkAllKerb''

[Ringkeeper]

when i first started the game i tried it without mods (didn*t even know mods exist). Couldn't get a rocket to orbit. Watched videos, didn't help. So i searched for a mod. Used Mechjeb. After some time i tried it again flying alone, because i learned from watching how it might work.

And hey, i managed. Even intercepting, docking, everything. But after 500 "bring kebal/sat to orbit" ... nah, let mechjeb do the job. In that time i can go to toilett or get something to drink.

[Kegereneku]

Novel opinions :

Playing Without Mechjeb is cheating.

Dead serious here, real rockets were never flown by hands except in rare & exceptional conditions, everything was programmed even before the invention of the transistor and will always be.

The future of Astronautic is pre-programmed interface for their users, far better than pitiful hum...kerbal skills.

 

Seriously... everybody play how he want. This is not a competitive game.

[Nathair]

I consider MJ cheating (as in cheating myself) so I don't use it. Tried it once, said "Where's the fun in that?!" and deleted it

Only thing is, I just don't see how my opinion* has anything to do with how anyone else plays the game. Do what you want.

 

*Of course I am silently judging everyone who uses MJ but people seem to be able to bear up under the weight of my snobbery.

 

[Joshwoo70]

nope.I think mechjeb as a auto pilot. for some really fine tuning stuff. all Dockings are done by hand. sometimes I let mechjeb do difficult stuff like : rapid change of inclinations.

but you might want to ask @DasValdez.. he might have different opinions...

Edited December 29, 2015 by Joshwoo69

[Beowolf]

Absolutely use MechJeb! It's the best learning tool we have. But use it to learn, not as a crutch. Watch what MJ does when, and you'll quickly learn how to do the maneuvers by hand. And after you've learned, feel free to use MJ for the boring stuff. For example, I build thoroughly tested, balanced boosters that'll nearly get into orbit all by themselves. That makes most launches five minutes of repetitive boredom, so I let MJ handle the routine ones.

OTOH, after I let MJ teach me how to dock, I enjoyed docking, so always do them manually now. I like doing most in-space burns manually, but will let MJ create the maneuver nodes for me. I hate the KSP drag-arrows interface for maneuver nodes, so thanks to MJ don't have to mess with it. If I'm doing something tricky, I create an empty node and tweak the values using the MJ editor.

Besides, trying to build rockets without knowing TWR and dV is just silly, IMO.  Stock KSP, to me, is just a "trial and error" arcade game. Add MJ or KER and it becomes an awesome space sim! Strictly my personal opinion, gang. No flames needed.

 

[wumpus]

The only worry I have with MechJeb and cheating is that the ability to land *exactly* on the landing pad is overpowered considering that it hits 100% reuse return.  I suspect that using the "mission program" that adds homing devices on units (and will no longer give 100%) should be used if this bothers me too much.

I don't feel that mechjeb outperforms me in other ways (of course I use and abuse Kerbal Engineer all I can).  There is just no way I can hit the landing pad from orbit without MJ or similar mods.

[r_rolo1]

On 28/12/2015 at 6:32 PM, Kegereneku said:

Novel opinions :

Playing Without Mechjeb is cheating.

Dead serious here, real rockets were never flown by hands except in rare & exceptional conditions, everything was programmed even before the invention of the transistor and will always be.

The future of Astronautic is pre-programmed interface for their users, far better than pitiful hum...kerbal skills.

Well, technically that is a argument to use kOS, not mechjeb, since mechjeb does not allow ( and it is not targetted to ) programming your missions before launch  ....

[wumpus]

On 12/28/2015 at 1:32 PM, Kegereneku said:

Novel opinions :

Playing Without Mechjeb is cheating.

So Neil Armstrong's relatively recent death and considerably extended life (past his astronaut career) was due to "cheating" in both Gemini and Apollo (two missions where he would be dead without overriding the automatic controls)?  I'd still recommend trying to learn to do as much as what mechjeb does as you can.  I'd also think twice about racking up those juicy 100% returns on landing on the pad (SpaceX uses automatic landers that can hit the landing pad, but I'm pretty sure that they don't get 100% cost-free reuse).

[AlamoVampire]

3 hours ago, r_rolo1 said:

Well, technically that is a argument to use kOS, not mechjeb, since mechjeb does not allow ( and it is not targetted to ) programming your missions before launch  ....

kOS is targeted at players with programming skills. Mechjeb is universally easy to use as it requires no programming skills thus more friendly. Between the 2 mechjeb has more broad usability than something requiring code script writing.

[The Destroyer]

Do what you find is fun. Some people like building rockets, so they build them and then get MJ to fly them. Others, like me like building and flying, enjoying it. Some just like to fly so the dl other peoples crafts.

[r_rolo1]

1 hour ago, AlamoVampire said:

kOS is targeted at players with programming skills. Mechjeb is universally easy to use as it requires no programming skills thus more friendly. Between the 2 mechjeb has more broad usability than something requiring code script writing.

All true, but look at what I was responding to  I was just pointing out that his argument about mechjeb did not make sense, because we can't preprogram missions in Mechjeb ( something that the person I was answering to pointed out that was the bread and butter of most RL missions ) and directing to the mod that actually does that

[SSgt Baloo]

Can't be. I downloaded it a week ago and still haven't figured out how to use it. I suppose if you were to use it in a challenge that forbids it, that would be cheating, but under any circumstances where it is not forbidden, it is optional. Anything else is an attempt to establish dominance over other players, using spurious logic.

Edited January 1, 2016 by SSgt Baloo

[AlamoVampire]

@r_rolo1 I know, i was just staying on counter point.

[Curveball Anders]

I love KSP for it allows me to dream, plan, research, build and execute hilarious missions in space.

But if I want to fly an aircraft I'd plug my full HOTAS setup in, activate the 3x monitors on my desk and fire up one of my flight simulators.

I only fly manually in KSP when I test something new/odd/strange or are just plain goofing around.

For everything else I MJ to achieve my planned goals.

[daffy]

Nope.  Not at all.

[Guest]

I have loved MechJeb, but here's my story.  I started playing, not knowing ANYTHING about what I was doing.  I soon started to learn how to get into orbit, and even how to do landings, and then rendezvous.  I was starting to get pretty good until I found MechJeb.  Why should I have to pilot it to orbit, when NASA has flight computers.  Boy was I wrong.  I started using it for everything: ascent, landings, rendezvous, docking, interplanetary transfers, insertions, maneuvers, etc.  Boy did I lose my touch.  MJ is an amazing feat of programming, but I have only recently gotten back to my first Mün landing without MechJeb.  It felt REALLY good.  I think this game is really about doing everything to make a mission happen, not just sitting there and pushing buttons.  I wasn't cheating to use MJ, but MJ cheated me.  Now I'm planning to work on the grand tour and get back on my feet.

[Motokid600]

I watch my rockets launch from the ground so... I don't have a choice. I'd use KoS if I was any good at coding.

[razark]

1 hour ago, CliftonM said:

I have loved MechJeb, but here's my story.  I started playing, not knowing ANYTHING about what I was doing.  I soon started to learn how to get into orbit, and even how to do landings, and then rendezvous.  I was starting to get pretty good until I found MechJeb.  Why should I have to pilot it to orbit, when NASA has flight computers.  Boy was I wrong.  I started using it for everything: ascent, landings, rendezvous, docking, interplanetary transfers, insertions, maneuvers, etc.  Boy did I lose my touch.  MJ is an amazing feat of programming, but I have only recently gotten back to my first Mün landing without MechJeb.  It felt REALLY good.  I think this game is really about doing everything to make a mission happen, not just sitting there and pushing buttons.  I wasn't cheating to use MJ, but MJ cheated me.  Now I'm planning to work on the grand tour and get back on my feet.

I had a similar experience.  I learned how to do things manually.  Then I found MechJeb, and started using it for a few things that I couldn't manage, like landing a tall rocket on the Mun, or pinpoint landings at the KSC.  The I started using it for more and more.  My launches, orbital maneuvers, landings, etc.

And then I realized I wasn't having fun with it.  I dropped it and went back to playing the game myself, and I've had much more fun.
(And every so often, I think... maybe I should just install it and only use it for launches.  It does get kind of boring doing the same ascent to orbit for the twentieth time.)