[1.12.X] Kerbal Planetary Base Systems v1.6.15 [28. April 2022]

[tsaven]

Your amazing IVAs are one of the best things about this mod. 

[Rafael acevedo]

Really cool Iva , I guess he was really cold from having eaten too much ice kream and know is having a mug of hot ko-Koa

really if you want some on to test let me know. Great job as usual

[Nils277]

8 hours ago, tsaven said:

Your amazing IVAs are one of the best things about this mod. 

Thanks. The Rover is going to be a new separate mod however 

[Wyzard]

I can't tell what's written on the cabinets behind the kerbal, but maybe one of them should be labeled Ice-Kream. 

[Rafael acevedo]

24 minutes ago, Nils277 said:

Thanks. The Rover is going to be a new separate mod however 

Love it, a serious request however, can we have a docking port or separator that allows the rover to be carried inside the hangar or to dock inside the hangar. This had been one of the most frustrating aspects of using any of the other rovers. A lot of trial and error. 

[Nils277]

4 hours ago, Rafael acevedo said:

Love it, a serious request however, can we have a docking port or separator that allows the rover to be carried inside the hangar or to dock inside the hangar. This had been one of the most frustrating aspects of using any of the other rovers. A lot of trial and error. 

Already on the list of planned parts  

[Rafael acevedo]

On ‎11‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 4:00 AM, Nils277 said:

I think, i just leave this here...

@Rafael acevedo did someone say Ice-Kream Rover? 

 

1 hour ago, Nils277 said:

Already on the list of planned parts  

Thank You !!!!

[Moodz]

I don't know if this has been said here before, but why does the algae farm produce CO2 ?

[snakeru]

Hi. TAC support bug report here.

Elektron and Fuelcell are containers that do opposite things - one consumes energy&water and produces oxygen&hydrogen and the other does the opposite.

However I discovered that amount of energy consumed/produced differs 56 times. It would have been understandable if that could have been explained by efficiency (13% efficiency of both machines can do that), but it's the OTHER WAY! Burning hydrogen gives us 56 times more energy than we spend cracking the resulting water back into elementary substances (please excuse me for the lame screenshot, made it with my phone and then edited with Gimp).

Another small side problem is that the oxygen:hydrogen ratio seems to be 1:90 for the Elektron and 1:133 for the Fuelcell. If we measure by weight then the ratio should be 8:1 (16 kg Oxygen vs 2 kg Hydrogen) OR if we measure by volume then it would be 1:2 (1 liter of Oxygen vs 2 liters of Hydrogen). I would guess that this one would be much harder to fix as it would likely also require to rebalance a lot of other things in the Game.

Thank you for the very good mod, BTW!

[Thirdparty]

Does the Legacy pack include the 1/4 framework parts? - I can not find, in the pack available on Curse anyway, the part/s needed to utilize the 1/4 sized containers.

[Nils277]

3 hours ago, snakeru said:

Hi. TAC support bug report here.

Elektron and Fuelcell are containers that do opposite things - one consumes energy&water and produces oxygen&hydrogen and the other does the opposite.

However I discovered that amount of energy consumed/produced differs 56 times. It would have been understandable if that could have been explained by efficiency (13% efficiency of both machines can do that), but it's the OTHER WAY! Burning hydrogen gives us 56 times more energy than we spend cracking the resulting water back into elementary substances (please excuse me for the lame screenshot, made it with my phone and then edited with Gimp).

Another small side problem is that the oxygen:hydrogen ratio seems to be 1:90 for the Elektron and 1:133 for the Fuelcell. If we measure by weight then the ratio should be 8:1 (16 kg Oxygen vs 2 kg Hydrogen) OR if we measure by volume then it would be 1:2 (1 liter of Oxygen vs 2 liters of Hydrogen). I would guess that this one would be much harder to fix as it would likely also require to rebalance a lot of other things in the Game.

Thank you for the very good mod, BTW!

You are right, the amount of energy you get out of that is a 'tiny' bit high  Will fix that. The ration between Oxygen and Hydrogen should be the same...i must really try to find the excel sheet for the TAC-LS parts and look of this was intentional.

1 hour ago, Thirdparty said:

Does the Legacy pack include the 1/4 framework parts? - I can not find, in the pack available on Curse anyway, the part/s needed to utilize the 1/4 sized containers.

You mean the storage racks where you can put in the container? They should be available in the normal download. They just have been moved to the "Payload" section in the filter since 1.2.

20 hours ago, Moodz said:

I don't know if this has been said here before, but why does the algae farm produce CO2 ?

I think that was a decision for balance reasons, to be realistic algaes should actually produce Oxygen. Again, i really have to find the excel sheet with my calculations for TAC-LS to see what my thoughts on this were.

Edited November 24, 2016 by Nils277

[snakeru]

37 minutes ago, Nils277 said:

You are right, the amount of energy you get out of that is a 'tiny' bit high  Will fix that. The ration between Oxygen and Hydrogen should be the same...i must really try to find the excel sheet for the TAC-LS parts and look of this was intentional.

Hmm? Decrease? Isn't increasing the Elektron energy consumption more logical?

Let's compare to the stock parts:
1) Stock fuel cell: 0.0017 fuel/s +  0.0020 oxidizer/s => 1.5 energy/s. Mass: 0.05t. "power density"=1.5/0.05=30 energy/tonn (http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Fuel_Cell)
2) Stock fuel cell array: 0.02025 fuel/s + 0.02475 oxidizer/s => 18 energy/s. Mass: 0.24t. "power density"=18/0.24=75 energy/tonn (http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Fuel_Cell_Array)
3) K&K Fuelcell (stock): 0.02025 fuel/s + 0.02475 oxidizer/s => 18 energy/s. Mass: 0.35t. "power density"=18/0.35=51 energy/tonn
4) K&K Fuelcell (TACLS): 0.9024 H2/s + 0.00674 O2/s => 18 energy/s (+9e-5 H2O/s). Mass: 0.35t. "power density"=18/0.35=51 energy/tonn

So it seems that currently the Fuelcell fits somewhere in-between of stock parts in terms of "power density" (or how you name it) whereas it should be probably a little bit more powerful because it is almost 1.5 times bigger than the stock 'fuel cell array'.

I understand, of course, the implications of making Elektron much more power-hungry: it's value will greatly reduce on non-Kerbol-tidally-locked solar bodies. 

Edited November 24, 2016 by snakeru

[snakeru]

24 minutes ago, snakeru said:

I understand, of course, the implications of making Elektron much more power-hungry: it's value will greatly reduce on non-Kerbol-tidally-locked solar bodies. 

Actually I am probably wrong here.

It won't be economical to run it at night but during the day time it would be perfectly fine. One will just need to care about having big enough oxygen tanks to survive the night and big enough solar batteries to make it through the day.

[g_BonE]

Hi, first of all thanks for this mod! 

questions: any Tips on running ose Workshop alongside this? as I think integration is not yet done, how are othEr users using it with this mod? 

[DStaal]

1 hour ago, snakeru said:

Actually I am probably wrong here.

It won't be economical to run it at night but during the day time it would be perfectly fine. One will just need to care about having big enough oxygen tanks to survive the night and big enough solar batteries to make it through the day.

Which is generally the idea for it: Run on solar during the day, and 'store' energy for your fuel cell to run at night.

[spoonyboobah]

28 minutes ago, g_BonE said:

Hi, first of all thanks for this mod! 

questions: any Tips on running ose Workshop alongside this? as I think integration is not yet done, how are othEr users using it with this mod? 

Hey @g_BonE,

I use the Pathfinder mod, however I strip it of all parts except the "Hacienda" and the Pathfinder's .dll file. 

The "Hacienda" is an inflatable workshop that has a full IVA with inbuilt ore drill and multiple nodes so you can expand off it. However using it attached to a KPBS base it will slightly hover off the ground.

This is a perfect stop gap until @Nils277 completes his KPBS Workshop.

If you dont wanna use that, you can use the OSE Workshop bundled with the mod itself connected to a 4-way KPBS hub.

Hope this helps

[DStaal]

There's also my old patch, that adds a couple of small ones, as mods of the current airlocks.

[Bit Fiddler]

on the topic of CO2...   a green house will use O2 to produce CO2 (in the dark) and use CO2 to  produce O2 (in the light).  the ratio of this is on the positive side for O2.  thus the net result is a greenhouse will produce more O2 than it consumes.  so however you chose to model this if you can assume at least equal light dark cycle you will gain O2.  so it all comes down to if you wish to realistically model the light dark cycle of the green house based on the orbit.  or if you just fudge it and say it produces some O2 and call it quits.  I guess it depends on how hardcore you want to mod to be.  and while I like TAC as it makes KSP "Hard Kore" and it is one of my must have mods.  I also think that there comes a point when trying to micromanage a greenhouse just detracts from the game.  I would much rather have a closed system I can enable and then put it on rails and forget about it.

basically if I must come back and be sure to turn parts off and on depending on the light conditions the fun is gone.  this goes for all the parts that interact with TAC;  fuel cells, Sabatier, purifiers, etc.  I would rather if be fudged on the side of playability than try to make it 100% realistic.   I want to be able to make a closed system that will support X kerbals for Y days.  and not have to micromanage all the individual processors.  all I care about is if I must "burn" water then how long will my water supply last.  all the individual interactions from all the parts can just be tedious and get in the way.

I would not expect a true closed loop however.  I would always expect some "input" is needed.  in most cases this would be water.  food can be grown in a green house, and the greenhouse will make O2, while it will consume water.  other parts will fit in this cycle, but the basic model here is I supply water to the craft and it will provide the kerbals with Food and Oxygen.  the other bits to recycle waste water back to clean water can give you the "nutrients" for your hydroponics and extend the life of your water reservoir, or convert water to Hydrogen and oxygen for breathing and for fuel etc.  but the net result is water = life,  as there will always be a diminishing return on the complete cycle that will mean an over all loss of water. oh and obviously EC so "H2O + EC = Life"

 

 

EDIT: oh and I can send you the spreadsheet I started to make for the TAC support.  it is not a big deal and you would need to still add a lot of stuff to it, but if you wanted it as a starting point ill send it.

Edited November 25, 2016 by Bit Fiddler

[snakeru]

9 hours ago, Bit Fiddler said:

I would rather if be fudged on the side of playability than try to make it 100% realistic.

I agree with you here. Fun > realism. May be I should retract my "make the Elektron more power hungry" demand.

We should probably still sync the resource rates b/w Elektron and Fuelcell

Not sure anymore if oxygen:hydrogen ratio should be changed. Some spreadsheeding is required to see how this will affect the total balance.

 

[luxorpt]

HI

In my game, the last update was no longer available the laboratory, the greenhouse for example, making most of the remaining objects available.
Checking the configuration files, I confirmed that the technological requirements were not changed; And ensure that the Community technological tree is up to date.
Someone can help me to overcome the problem, is that I do not want to advance in the game (I have already backed up) because I lose several bases.
Thank you very much in advance.

[Nils277]

5 hours ago, luxorpt said:

HI

In my game, the last update was no longer available the laboratory, the greenhouse for example, making most of the remaining objects available.
Checking the configuration files, I confirmed that the technological requirements were not changed; And ensure that the Community technological tree is up to date.
Someone can help me to overcome the problem, is that I do not want to advance in the game (I have already backed up) because I lose several bases.
Thank you very much in advance.

Is only the laboratory missing, or also the greenhouse? I did not understand your post entirely.

I have not changed anything for the greenhouse or the laboratory for very long now and have no idea why it is missing. Can you send me a log file from trying to load the save? This will Help me find out what the problem is.

[luxorpt]

thanks for the answer.

At this moment I detect only these two faults.
How do I generate the log?

[Rafael acevedo]

3 hours ago, luxorpt said:

thanks for the answer.

At this moment I detect only these two faults.
How do I generate the log?

• Windows: KSP_win\KSP_Data\output_log.txt (32bit) or KSP_win64\KSP_x64_Data\output_log.txt (64bit)
• Mac OS X: Open Console, on the left side of the window there is a menu that says 'files'. Scroll down the list and find the Unity drop down, under Unity there will be Player.log ( Files>~/Library/Logs>Unity>Player.log )
• Linux: ~/.config/unity3d/Squad/Kerbal\ Space\ Program/Player.log

[Kerbart]

Hello @Nils277, I just noticed...  when setting separateFunctionFilter = True in the KPBS_config.cfg file, the Greenhouse goes missing. It's there in other filter modes (looking in the relevant categories of course) but not in the "Surface Structures" (or whatever you called that category  ) custom category associated with separateFunctionFilter = True. Everything else seems to be there, though.

• I made sure to have the latest version installed
• When using a different setting in the config file, the Greenhouse will show up

I suspect it's just a typo regarding the category the greenhouse gets assigned to, but I am clueless on how to check/confirm that.

Edited November 27, 2016 by Kerbart

[Nils277]

31 minutes ago, Kerbart said:

Hello @Nils277, I just noticed...  when setting separateFunctionFilter = True in the KPBS_config.cfg file, the Greenhouse goes missing. It's there in other filter modes (looking in the relevant categories of course) but not in the "Surface Structures" (or whatever you called that category  ) custom category associated with separateFunctionFilter = True. Everything else seems to be there, though.

• I made sure to have the latest version installed
• When using a different setting in the config file, the Greenhouse will show up

I suspect it's just a typo regarding the category the greenhouse gets assigned to, but I am clueless on how to check/confirm that.

Ah, that  makes sense. When you have a life support mod installed, it should be in this category. Maybe I have made a mistake doing so. Will check that.