Everything wrong with "The Martian" ft Neil deGrasse Tyson

[Spaceception]

 

[Atlas2342]

I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS FOR SOO LONGGGG

[Dfthu]

57 minutes ago, Atlas2342 said:

I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS FOR SOO LONGGGG

ME TOO!!

[HopDavid]

Haven't watched the vid. Do they point out Mars near vacuum wouldn't have winds that could blow over an MAV?

Not in the movie, but Tyson's trailer was pretty clueless in several ways.

[WinkAllKerb'']

:3

[Beowolf]

I got a kick out of how perhaps half of the "sins" were sensible and properly explained in the book. Some odd editing in that movie. I want to see a director's cut.

[Newpossum]

So this guy is like Mike Tyson's smarter brother, right?

[Tex Mechs Robot]

2 hours ago, Beowolf said:

I got a kick out of how perhaps half of the "sins" were sensible and properly explained in the book. Some odd editing in that movie. I want to see a director's cut.

Agreed. I had to tell myself he was judging the movie and not the book because many of the sins were explained in the book very well and I started to get frustrated watching the youtube clip.

A director's cut would be awesome.

[SlabGizor117]

Although it's the point of the whole channel, CinemaSins nitpicks everything wrong with every movie it does and especially with space movies. 3/4 of the crap he picks at isn't even a legit plot hole, just something he thought was dumb..  Not everyone may even agree that some of the stuff he picks at is bad, but he presents it as fact.  Big YouTube channels annoy me...

[Superfluous J]

90 sins.

50 weren't actually sins, but just "funny things" they just wanted to mention.

20 weren't actually sins, but restating the 50 above over and over. And sometimes over.

15 weren't actually sins, but things they didn't understand, catch, or genuinely weren't explained well enough in the movie.

5 were actually sins, like the dust storm and the unnecessary "where are they now" montage at the end.

1 sin they didn't even mention (but they did show and kinda allude to) where Watney actually flew like Iron Man.

I tend to feel this way about most of these videos. They feel the need to "sin up" a good movie to get views. Which is sad, but I guess a video with only a few "sins" would not be as punchy as 90 of them.

[Accelerando]

Spoiler

Let's send NDT to actual space so he can nitpick everything that's wrong with it

 

[Superfluous J]

36 minutes ago, Accelerando said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Let's send NDT to actual space so he can nitpick everything that's wrong with it

 

Spoiler

We should start with how Clickhole is another Onion-type website...

 

Edited May 1, 2016 by 5thHorseman

[Accelerando]

13 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

We should start with how Clickhole is another Onion-type website...

Yes... that's the point, actually...... You juxtapose some satirical headline into the thread alongside the actual ridiculous thing (the OP's video) to show by similarity that the actual thing is as ridiculous as the satire..............

Edited May 1, 2016 by Accelerando

[Superfluous J]

27 minutes ago, Accelerando said:

Yes... that's the point, actually...... You juxtapose some satirical headline into the thread alongside the actual ridiculous thing (the OP's video) to show by similarity that the actual thing is as ridiculous as the satire..............

Aha. I fell into the sar-chasm. Oops.

[Choctofliatrio2.0]

I like Neil DeGrasse Tyson (I've read Death By Black Hole and Space Chronicles, both very good*), but it does seem like he gets kinda nitpicky. I'm totally a fan of him promoting scientific knowledge, but he gives off that "Pay attention to me, I'm smarter than you" vibe. 

Also, the Martian is one of my favorite books ever, but the movie was... eh. I enjoyed it, but they picked some important events to leave out, and interpreted the book strangely. I thought the video was funny. 

*Both those books are collections of essays and articles he'd written, so when I read Space Chronicles, like half the chapters were the same as in DBBH

[RocketSquid]

So 90 "sins". Let's break that down: (Long post in spoiler)

Spoiler

I'd say that about 10 of them were literally just arbitrary tally increases with next to nothing to do with the movie. I mean, the tally increased after just about every sentence.

Then, there were easily 20 that were just complaints about the film itself, rather than the story or the science. For example, the complaints about montages, slow-mo, etc. He also included at least 10 random nitpicks that had nothing to do with the plot or characters, and had no significance to the viewers. For example, the ketchup observation, and the CGI potato steam.

Next came the ~22 complaints that completely vanish if you put more than about 20 seconds of thought into them:

• The beard thing- Last I checked, razors have a limited lifespan)
• The fact that they had to strip down the MAV-
• The fact that the MAV went past the tipping point- Things don't just instantly fell over when they go past balance, and he actually has to FIRE THE RCS THRUSTERS TO KEEP IT FROM DOING SO!!
• Mark immediately pulling out the antenna- How does he expect to fix the wound with his spacesuit literally pinned to his body? And he is right next to the medical supplies, so that isn't valid either.
• How did he survive overnight- First of all, to the best of my knowledge he was actually not outside for more than maybe a few hours. Plus, spacesuits are kind of supposed to, you know, help their wearers survive on other planets.
• "Death by disco"/lack of other music- Why is that difficult to believe? There are numerous other forms of entertainment. Plus, they might have left their music on the hermes.
• "Attempts to make botany cool"- A) it is B) How exactly does one grow food without botany?
• Lack of surgery-related unconsciousness- It's called "local anesthesia".
• Lack of modern shows- All shows were brought by astronauts as personal items, not supplied by NASA. The only crewmember who brought anything was Commander Lewis.
• "Least disco song" being oddly fitting- This was clearly deliberate, either by the director or in-universe by Mark.
• Bikes and electric golf carts- *COUGH MORE EFFICIENT FOR SHORT DISTANCES COUGH*
• Sudden calm weather- The deadly sandstorm was a) fictional and b) stated in-universe as being far beyond normal weather
• Late escape- This was a storm that was upgraded in size shortly before it hit. Also, spacesuits take a while to put on.
• Lewis is late to board the MAV- She considers it to be her duty to find Mark, and is later wracked by guilt about it.
• Mark able to access Johannsen's personal computer- They have been living together for the entire journey to mars, plus the entire time they have been on mars. Is it so implausible that he would find out her password?
• "The MAV is already there, why doesn't he go to it since it has a bunch of supplies?"- a) It contains at most a few days of food and water. The most useful things it might have are CO₂ scrubbers and possibly spare spacesuits. b) It isn't exactly close.
• Back wounds- Hmm, where could those have come from, I mean besides the whole airlock thing, or the numerous other ways he could've gotten smashed into things?
• "could've been calculated before the hermes went back to mars"- They were, they just weren't explained until later.
• Lack of fueling stations/extra fuel on the probe- And how many missions would the have to cancel to be able to afford refueling stations? And where would the food go if they put fuel on the probe?
• Live broadcast- There is already enough of a delay without them adding an extra 10 seconds for PR reasons.
• Intercept speed- Actually, he said that 10 m/s would be difficult but doable. 10 m/s = ~22 mph = very slow train.

We also have about 5 that were just really, really, bad jokes, such as the Sean Bean ones (Plus, even if his character survived, his character's career sure didn't).

And then there are the ~5 allegations that made it seem like he didn't know it was based on a book, such as the "pandering to Chinese audiences" one, and the ~5 that are just repeats of other invalid complaints but worded differently.

Lastly, we come to the 13 remaining valid ones. Most of these are only valid for the movie, and not for the book. Lets look at some of these, shall we?

The surgery scene was excessive. It was incredibly Squicky, and honestly I close my eyes for that scene. That was a valid complaint.

The "iron man" thing was very, very dumb. This was acknowledged in-universe, however, so it doesn't count.

The crowds of people watching screens was probably unrealistic, but this is one of the only ways to really show that a lot of people are watching. Plus, he somehow counted this as 2 sins!

Beck having to direct the Iris was unrealistic, but also not in the book. This is dramatic license.

The only truly, 100% valid-for-the-movie-and-the-book complaints were the two about the martian atmosphere, and they were pretty much only one complaint: The Martian atmosphere is inconsistent in the movie/book. The author has gone out to say this, but if it wasn't unrealistically thick for the storm we would've been stuck with them aborting because of equipment failure.

Plus, there are two additional problems he missed: Radiation shielding, which was pretty much just handwaved in the book (at the admission of the author, no less) and ignored in the movie, and the centrifuge, which was too small and slow to provide adequate gravity.

 

So, in summary:

• ~25 were either random statements that were somehow counted, bad jokes that were somehow counted, or things so arbitrary that nobody actually cares.
• 23 were rendered invalid with some thought.
• ~20 were primarily about the film-making techniques used.
• ~4 were just complaining for the sake of complaining, or were pure opinion.
• ~5 would be valid if and only if it wasn't based on a book.
• ~7 were copies of earlier complaints
• 3 were dramatic license and were not in the book.
• 2 were both complaining about the martian atmosphere and amount to exactly 1 valid complaint, but which applies for both the movie and the book.
• 1 was valid for the movie, and not in the book

That totals to: 2-5 valid complaints for the movie (depending on whether you count dramatic license) and one that remains valid for the book.

[Spaceception]

6 minutes ago, RocketSquid said:

Snippy

Totally agree, and I give you virtual rep, since I ran out of likes, but what do you have for the universal power cables? Just wondering.

[Choctofliatrio2.0]

Remember, CinemaSins is a comedy show. It's not an actual movie review channel.

[Superfluous J]

1 hour ago, Choctofliatrio2.0 said:

Remember, CinemaSins is a comedy show. It's not an actual movie review channel.

It's a show all right...

1 hour ago, RocketSquid said:

Mark able to access Johannsen's personal computer- They have been living together for the entire journey to mars, plus the entire time they have been on mars. Is it so implausible that he would find out her password?

Or maybe they just don't have passwords, because they're a close-knit team with important information on their computers and one of them might die?

[RocketSquid]

10 hours ago, Spaceception said:

Totally agree, and I give you virtual rep, since I ran out of likes, but what do you have for the universal power cables? Just wondering.

I think that falls under dramatic license, since I believe in the book he had to actually splice some of the cables.

 

8 hours ago, 5thHorseman said:

Or maybe they just don't have passwords, because they're a close-knit team with important information on their computers and one of them might die?

That is also a possibility.

[todofwar]

Something to keep in mind with Cinemasins: THE BOOKS DON'T MATTER! (I think I am legally obligated to make that all caps, sorry). They state again and again in other videos and media that they are specifically critiquing movies, and if it was so important for the plot of the book it should have been part of the movie, which I wholeheartedly agree with. Any adaptation should completely stand on its own two legs. Also, they are coming at it from a completely layman perspective, so yes they will misunderstand science occasionally. They had many sins for Fury Road, but went out of their way to talk about how much they loved it. In this case, they included Neil so that they can give credit to the good job this movie did with science. 

I did find it a bit sad that the main gripes Neil seemed to have were the fact that the decision makers actually understand science, and that China and the US are able to work with each other. 

[cubinator]

On 5/2/2016 at 10:13 PM, 5thHorseman said:

Or maybe they just don't have passwords, because they're a close-knit team with important information on their computers and one of them might die?

 

On 5/2/2016 at 6:54 AM, RocketSquid said:

That is also a possibility.

I'm pretty sure I recall Mark joking about her not having a password.

[Finox]

Believe it or not 90 sins is actually a pretty low score for cinema sins.   Search the cinema sins of "The Room" the final tally is horrendous, even without the bonus round!

Edited May 4, 2016 by Finox

[HopDavid]

Sorry for the thread necromancy but I've added elevator stuff to my blogs. I came across a spread sheet that gives an estimate of tether mass needed for a given payload mass. Here's an explanation of the spreadsheet as well as links to various tether scenarios. I assume Zylon tethers throughout.

I am not that enthusiastic about a lunar elevator. I am more excited about a Phobos elevator, both extending towards Mars as well as extending away from Mars.

 

 

[Spaceception]

6 minutes ago, HopDavid said:

Sorry for the thread necromancy but I've added elevator stuff to my blogs. I came across a spread sheet that gives an estimate of tether mass needed for a given payload mass. Here's an explanation of the spreadsheet as well as links to various tether scenarios. I assume Zylon tethers throughout.

I am not that enthusiastic about a lunar elevator. I am more excited about a Phobos elevator, both extending towards Mars as well as extending away from Mars.

 

 

Ooooookay.... How does this add to the conversation?

Maybe post this in one of the Space elevator threads we have?