[ASC-III] Air Superiority Challenge - King of the Hill (BDArmory 4v4 AI Duels: WW1 Theme) - Now Concluded!

[Dman979]

hey, @inigma, I've updated my craft.

https://kerbalx.com/dman979/Part-Clipper-11200S

Can you replace the P-C 11k with this? Thanks.

Also, would anyone be willing to test it and give some feedback?

[Spearka]

I've been trying to make improvements to the Thassa in an attempt to outdo the Stealth Weasel and I dare say I might have just succeeded.

The improvements consisted on adding an extra 4 winglets and internal wings to improve turning at lower speeds, 2 ECM Jammers to reduce the chance of being downed early on, four batteries for more ECM jamming for longer, a Radar reciever for synchronisation between craft and an extra engine.

As a result matches ended up very tense; out of 6 matches under different conditions the Thassa won in 5 which is a significant improvement.

This one was the closest (it's also an earlier improvement thinking the laser would do something), even though the Stealth Weasel removed the engine on the last Thassa it still managed to down the Weasel completely with its 50.Cal guns.

Another tense match, both Thassas lost a wing as did the Stealth Weasel but all kept flying. Eventually the Thassa not on screen launched a missile destroying the Stealth Weasel.

Semi-obligatory Thassa shot. I also centred the tail fin and moved the Vulcans a little as collision issues prevented it from firing properly.

Download Link

[inigma]

58 minutes ago, Spearka said:

I've been trying to make improvements to the Thassa in an attempt to outdo the Stealth Weasel and I dare say I might have just succeeded.

The improvements consisted on adding an extra 4 winglets and internal wings to improve turning at lower speeds, 2 ECM Jammers to reduce the chance of being downed early on, four batteries for more ECM jamming for longer, a Radar reciever for synchronisation between craft and an extra engine.

As a result matches ended up very tense; out of 6 matches under different conditions the Thassa won in 5 which is a significant improvement.

This one was the closest (it's also an earlier improvement thinking the laser would do something), even though the Stealth Weasel removed the engine on the last Thassa it still managed to down the Weasel completely with its 50.Cal guns.

Another tense match, both Thassas lost a wing as did the Stealth Weasel but all kept flying. Eventually the Thassa not on screen launched a missile destroying the Stealth Weasel.

Semi-obligatory Thassa shot. I also centred the tail fin and moved the Vulcans a little as collision issues prevented it from firing properly.

Download Link

update your KerbalX download by drag-dropping into it.

[Spearka]

1 hour ago, inigma said:

update your KerbalX download by drag-dropping into it.

I already did, KerbalX Mirror

[jrodriguez]

@Spearka I did a test using your last plane! You won 2 - 1. I gave you a nice fight  and the test was very useful because I know now that I have to fix some issues with my X-Wing.

 

 

 

[NotAnAimbot]

I think the next fight will be very interesting, since we've got two completely opposite-built planes which are both pretty good. I'm looking forward to see the death star in action.

Also, @inigma, here's some music that might suit the battle.

 

[Spearka]

28 minutes ago, jrodriguez said:

@Spearka I did a test using your last plane! You won 2 - 1. I gave you a nice fight  and the test was very useful because I know now that I have to fix some issues with my X-Wing.

Your biggest issue here is that the X-Wings don't have chaff meaning their only defense against radar-guided missiles is through evasive maneuvers. In said fights the Thassa could secure wins by forcing the X-Wings to act defensively and shoot out of reach against its Vulcans.

So overall the X-Wing could be severely more powerful simply by adding ECM Jammers and Chaff.

 

In retrospect, the X-Wings won the first match due to its blinding speed and the reach of its Vulcan cannons, it could close the distance between it and the Thassa fast and didn't require it to be directly ahead to shoot.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Spearka

[jrodriguez]

 

1 hour ago, Spearka said:

Your biggest issue here is that the X-Wings don't have chaff meaning their only defense against radar-guided missiles is through evasive maneuvers. In said fights the Thassa could secure wins by forcing the X-Wings to act defensively and shoot out of reach against its Vulcans.

So overall the X-Wing could be severely more powerful simply by adding ECM Jammers and Chaff.

 

In retrospect, the X-Wings won the first match due to its blinding speed and the reach of its Vulcan cannons, it could close the distance between it and the Thassa fast and didn't require it to be directly ahead to shoot.

You are right! haha I have done some improvements, and..I have removed missiles, so I will stick with a strategy based on extreme maneuvers and vulcans as you can expect from a proper X-Wing! I'm uploading a new video against Thassas, very cool. I have won this time :). BTW my Vulcans are limited in pitch, yaw to 12º because I don't want them to just turn 180º I fell like I'm cheating.

@inigma I have added a new version of the X-Wing to the Hangar X-Wing BD 1.5

[inigma]

25 minutes ago, jrodriguez said:

 

You are right! haha I have done some improvements, and..I have removed missiles, so I will stick with a strategy based on extreme maneuvers and vulcans as you can expect from a proper X-Wing! I'm uploading a new video against Thassas, very cool. I have won this time :). BTW my Vulcans are limited in pitch, yaw to 12º because I don't want them to just turn 180º I fell like I'm cheating.

@inigma I have added a new version of the X-Wing to the Hangar X-Wing BD 1.5

Done!  And your videos are getting better. Have you tried BD dogfight mode on the Camera Tools yet? I find if you engage it, it causes canons to unpredictably not operate until you toggle BD menu or the GUI on and off again. Weird.  I might just record without chase mode next match since it was sooooo close.

 

Next recording tonight hopefully - the third and final round between Redshift OTF and gag09! This time with MK theme to avoid the bug noid. Time to see if a new King takes the hill tonight.

Edited April 13, 2016 by inigma

[Dman979]

So, I was trying out a second design for the challenge, and I think I'm on to something...

Beat the SW pretty handily.

[NotAnAimbot]

nvm

Edited April 14, 2016 by NotAnAimbot

[Dman979]

Hmm, getting closer....

Lost one round, made some tweaks, won the next.

Edit: Won the second.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Dman979

[NotAnAimbot]

Tweaked my F-2C as well, let's just say it's doing a predator's job on weasels.

@inigma, if you could tweak the F-2's pilot at 17 steer factor, 52 take off speed and 7 dampening that would be nice. 

[inigma]

6 minutes ago, NotAnAimbot said:

Tweaked my F-2C as well, let's just say it's doing a predator's job on weasels.

@inigma, if you could tweak the F-2's pilot at 17 steer factor, 52 take off speed and 7 dampening that would be nice. 

Please update your already linked craft.  I download new planes each match.

[Dman979]

And, I decided what I'm going to call my new plane: Scriptkitt3h's Nightmare.

[NotAnAimbot]

40 minutes ago, inigma said:

Please update your already linked craft

Done, KerbX updated.

[g00bd0g]

Do multiple ECM pods help?

[ReeceEngineering]

Im missing the following mods. I cant find them on Cuse or Spacedock. Can anyone help?

 

BahamutoD's BDAVesselSwitcher
BahamutoD's DestructionEffects
BahamutoD's Vessel Mover
HyperEdit
InFlightFlagSwitcher

[Dman979]

10 minutes ago, g00bd0g said:

Do multiple ECM pods help?

to a point. They follow the law of diminishing returns.

And @inigma, I'm releasing the @ScriptKitt3h's Nightmare CF and CM.

https://kerbalx.com/dman979/ScriptKitt3hs-Nightmare-CF

https://kerbalx.com/dman979/ScriptKitt3hs-Nightmare-CM

Please remove the Part-Clipper 11000 from the competition and replace it with these.

Would anyone like to give any feedback?

Edited April 14, 2016 by Dman979

[ScriptKitt3h]

Just got a confirmed victory against the Stealth Weasels with my current replacement for the Gemini, the ATS-X Horus. Taking several attributes of other fighters and applying it to an old, 1.0.4-era (if not earlier, I'm not 100%-sure) airframe that's been updated to modern standards, the Horus is highly agile, appropriately fast for a fighter of its type, and comes armed with an efficient loadout complete with AMRAAMs, a pair of Sidewinders, and twin Vulcan cannons. The plane's managed to survive prolonged gun hits to the wing-covered sections of fuselage- the wings not only slightly improve the maneuverability of the plane, but also act as lightweight, heat-distributing armor (to an extent) that helps mitigate the damage from longer-range gun hits.

Scatterer's shaders decided to bug out taking those pics, but during the fight one of the Horus pilots scored a confirmed kill on the first Weasel, and then the second Weasel went after the other pilot. The first Horus then turned, launched an AMRAAM from behind the charging Weasel as it flew past, and killed it just as it shot down the other Horus.

That's the real weakness of the Weasels- you gotta have highly agile fighters that can dodge their gun and missile attacks, but that can exploit the Weasel's reliance on close-quarters gunfights once it depletes its small stock of missiles. (Fighting it up close with guns immediately reduces your chances of winning; its key trait is its lightning-fast turning/flipping capabilities that it uses to get behind your planes for a gun kill.)

@inigma, here's the dropbox link for the ATS-X Horus:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/paqd0yehmgk7dku/ATS-X%20Horus%20%28BDA%29.craft?dl=0

Edited April 14, 2016 by ScriptKitt3h

[Dman979]

14 minutes ago, ScriptKitt3h said:

That's the real weakness of the Weasels- you gotta have highly agile fighters that can dodge their gun and missile attacks, but that can exploit the Weasel's reliance on close-quarters gunfights once it depletes its small stock of missiles. (Fighting it up close with guns immediately reduces your chances of winning; its key trait is its lightning-fast turning/flipping capabilities that it uses to get behind your planes for a gun kill.

So, in other words, quick planes, high maneuverability, low wing loading. You're telling me to beat the thing at it's own game.

There are other ways to beat it, too. My fighters have lower maneuverability than the Weasel, and cannot turn on a dime, but I have rear-facing guns, to keep things off my 6.

You have to think outside the box. I see both the Weasel and the Horus with high visible wing area. I didn't really care too much about that. if you clip wings inside a fuselage, you can reduce your footprint to gunfire.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Dman979

[ScriptKitt3h]

11 minutes ago, Dman979 said:

So, in other words, quick planes, high maneuverability, low wing loading. You're telling me to beat the thing at it's own game.

There are other ways to beat it, too. My fighters have lower maneuverability than the Weasel, and cannot turn on a dime, but I have rear-facing guns, to keep things off my 6.

You have to think outside the box. I see both the Weasel and the Horus with high visible wing area. I didn't really care too much about that. if you clip wings inside a fuselage, you can reduce your footprint to gunfire.

Well, not necessarily low wing loading- just being able to dodge missiles, etc. reliably (being able to avoid AMRAAMs really, since they're what's going to screw you over otherwise before any plane gets into gun range). And I'm saying more-so to counter it's strength (gunfighting) with longer-ranged tactics and so on.

It seems your solution's rear guns; mine's working on securing missile kills. I prefer to have my planes fit a certain aesthetic, and so I design them to fit it while still meeting my design parameters: The Horus is fast, agile, and looks the way I want it to. It also performs better than it's predecessor, so it's a definite improvement.

Edited April 14, 2016 by ScriptKitt3h

[Dman979]

Just now, ScriptKitt3h said:

Well, not necessarily low wing loading- just being able to dodge missiles, etc. reliably. And I'm saying more-so to counter it's strength (gunfighting) with longer-ranged things and so on.

It seems your solution's rear guns; mine's working on securing missile kills.

Yes, that's also true.

My fighters get up close and personal, mainly because they fire their missiles too slowly.

Also, @inigma, does adding/subtracting weapons hardpoints count as weapon modification? Or just the weapons on them?

[ScriptKitt3h]

10 minutes ago, Dman979 said:

Yes, that's also true.

My fighters get up close and personal, mainly because they fire their missiles too slowly.

Also, @inigma, does adding/subtracting weapons hardpoints count as weapon modification? Or just the weapons on them?

There's two main ways I try to keep the AI using long-ranged attacks while it still has missiles:

1-Turn down gun firing range.
2-Increase/decrease missiles launched per target. (Depends on the issue, so ammo count is key here.)

Really, it's somewhat dependent on your plane and loadout- but for the sake of simplicity, AMRAAMs are really want you want to load up on for missiles, with MAYBE an AIM-9 pair or two for when you run low or need something to shoot off when a jet's near you but not going evasive.

[Dman979]

3 minutes ago, ScriptKitt3h said:

There's two main ways I try to keep the AI using long-ranged attacks while it still has missiles:

1-Turn down gun firing range.
2-Increase/decrease missiles launched per target. (Depends on the issue, so ammo count is key here.)

Really, it's somewhat dependent on your plane and loadout- but for the sake of simplicity, AMRAAMs are really want you want to load up on for missiles, with MAYBE an AIM-9 pair or two for when you run low or need something to shoot off when a jet's near you but not going evasive.

1. It's at the default.

2. It's at 4. Depending on the plane, I have either 4 sidewinders or 4 AIM-120s and 2 sidewinders.