1.1 challenges in the KSP forums

[DoctorDavinci]

I have a bit of a gripe concerning the 1.1 update.

It seems that there are challenges that are being posted on the forums for the 1.1 pre-release and I feel that this is unfair and alienates those of us who choose not to support steam. It is almost like those of us who chose to support Squad by buying KSP directly from them are being ostracized for choosing to support the developer instead of a third party software provider.

This isn't another thread concerning whether the pre-release should have been released to all by any means necessary as doing the pre-release through Steam was the best option available to Squad at this time given the options available to them. However, having challenges posted involving the 1.1 pre-release on the KSP forums could be viewed as a direct insult to those of us who refuse to use steam.

I would ask that we not turn this into another 'salty tears' thread but rather use this thread to make our voices heard by the members of the community who have decided to not respect the fact that 1.1 was in pre-release which was done to further testing and finding bugs ... Not for mass consumption if you will.

I would like to know the community's thoughts on this.

Edited April 20, 2016 by DoctorDavinci

[Sandworm]

1.1 is available via the store now.

 

As a fellow non-steam customer, I completely agree with the comment. But with 1.1 out it's an old story.  Save the anger for the next beta test cycle towards the end of the year.  That will have tighter deadlines (christmas) and so shouldn't drag out nearly as long.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Sandworm

[DoctorDavinci]

4 minutes ago, Sandworm said:

1.1 is available via the store now.

 

As a fellow non-steam customer, I completely agree with the comment. But with 1.1 out it's an old story.  Save the anger for the next beta test cycle towards the end of the year.  That will have tighter deadlines (christmas) and so shouldn't drag out nearly as long.

Actually this is concerning posts that were from before the release today

[jwenting]

and it's completely irrational to berate users for posting things for 1.1 just because you yourself have elected not to download 1.1.

What's next, get angry at mod makers for supporting 1.1 because you don't have it yet?

Or getting angry at Squad for making 1.1 at all because that meant that some people (testers...) would have it before it was released?

[Sandworm]

1 minute ago, DoctorDavinci said:

Actually this is concerning posts that were from before the release today

I still agree.  Squad acted like jerks, treating us very poorly.  They treated the pre-release as a full release.  But we aren't going to get any apology, nor would one make any difference.  Hopefully they will not repeat the behavior next time.

[DoctorDavinci]

Squad made the choice they did due to technical limitations and that isn't what my post is about ... I wanted to know what the community thought about the posting of challenges and such before 1.1 was officially released

6 minutes ago, jwenting said:

and it's completely irrational to berate users for posting things for 1.1 just because you yourself have elected not to download 1.1.

What's next, get angry at mod makers for supporting 1.1 because you don't have it yet?

Or getting angry at Squad for making 1.1 at all because that meant that some people (testers...) would have it before it was released?

I think you misconstrue what this thread is about

[Fallarnon]

52 minutes ago, DoctorDavinci said:

Squad made the choice they did due to technical limitations and that isn't what my post is about ... I wanted to know what the community thought about the posting of challenges and such before 1.1 was officially released

I think you misconstrue what this thread is about

Alleged technical limitations.

At any rate, you want to know what people think so here goes. I think that you have chosen to be in the situation you're in whereby you lack access to beta builds and expecting the entire community to refrain from discussions regarding a version you chose not to have access to is selfish, irrational, and absurd. It's like if you were one of these anti-vaccine parents whose kids are healthy and you're at the hospital with your kid sick with the measles and you demand that the hospital administrator keep all of the healthy kids out of the wing your kid is being treated in. 

If you want something to gripe about gripe at Squad for not accommodating non-Steam users with the pre-release. I don't care what alleged technical limitations they cited, the fact is that if they so desired they could provide everybody who purchases the game here, on GoG, Humble Store, and likely any other software reseller with a Steam key at no cost to themselves. Valve 100% supports allowing SteamWorks developers distributing keys for Steam through third party sites so the only reason it hasn't been done is that Squad has chosen not to do it. In point of fact, I bought my copy from Squad directly back in 2012 and was later given the chance to get a Steam key from Squad, their policy on this is all very strange if I'm being honest.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Fallarnon

[jwenting]

2 hours ago, DoctorDavinci said:

Squad made the choice they did due to technical limitations and that isn't what my post is about ... I wanted to know what the community thought about the posting of challenges and such before 1.1 was officially released

I think you misconstrue what this thread is about

if it is, it's your own fault. You're griping about people making forum threads about 1.1 who aren't even Squad employees. 

Edited April 20, 2016 by Red Iron Crown
No personal attacks, please.

[Sandworm]

8 minutes ago, Fallarnon said:

Alleged technical limitations.

At any rate, you want to know what people think so here goes. I think that you have chosen to be in the situation you're in whereby you lack access to beta builds and expecting the entire community to refrain from discussions regarding a version you chose not to have access to is selfish, irrational, and absurd. It's like if you were one of these anti-vaccine parents whose kids are healthy and you're at the hospital with your kid sick with the measles and you demand that the hospital administrator keep all of the healthy kids out of the wing your kid is being treated in. 

If you want something to gripe about gripe at Squad for not accommodating non-Steam users with the pre-release. I don't care what alleged technical limitations they cited, the fact is that if they so desired they could provide everybody who purchases the game here, on GoG, Humble Store, and likely any other software reseller with a Steam key at no cost to themselves. Valve 100% supports allowing SteamWorks developers distributing keys for Steam through third party sites so the only reason it hasn't been done is that Squad has chosen not to do it. In point of fact, I bought my copy from Squad directly back in 2012 and was later given the chance to get a Steam key from Squad, their policy on this is all very strange if I'm being honest.

He isn't talking about contracts.  That's an entirely different debate.  This isn't about Squad having to do anything.  This is about Squad choosing a really horrible course of action by cutting out many long-time customers.  They then compounded this by treating the per-release builds here on the forums as they did (the challenged mentioned in the OP).  Imho they should not have promoted things as they did.  We shouldn't have seen people playing careers on youtube.  Allowing that to happen was not appropriate.   

 

Be wary of the move to steam.  If non-steam customers are too inconvenient to be allowed to participate in an open beta, perhaps the OSX and Linux customers may also one day be too inconvenient.

[Fallarnon]

7 minutes ago, Sandworm said:

He isn't talking about contracts.  That's an entirely different debate.  This isn't about Squad having to do anything.  This is about Squad choosing a really horrible course of action by cutting out many long-time customers.  They then compounded this by treating the per-release builds here on the forums as they did (the challenged mentioned in the OP).  Imho they should not have promoted things as they did.  We shouldn't have seen people playing careers on youtube.  Allowing that to happen was not appropriate.   

 

Be wary of the move to steam.  If non-steam customers are too inconvenient to be allowed to participate in an open beta, perhaps the OSX and Linux customers may also one day be too inconvenient.

Who said anything about contracts? I suggested that if he had an issue with how 1.1 was handled he should really be griping about the real issue, that Squad had at least one viable option they could have utilized to give everybody access and they chose not to do so. What you're suggesting sounds like you think Squad should have been practicing censorship, deleting any post made about 1.1 and DMCAing any video of 1.1 on YouTube, that's a great way for Squad to become very unpopular very quickly.

As far as your shot at Steam, give it a rest dude, the war's over, Steam is here and, despite your odd and out of base comments, cross-platform. Hell, Linux stands to gain more users through the clout of Valve than it's ever gotten before, there's this little distro called Steam OS you may have heard of. It wasn't a matter of non-Steam users being inconvenient, it was a matter of Steam having a solid easy to use system in place for managing multiple branches.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Fallarnon

[Sandworm]

There is a difference between non-promotion and censorship.  Squad should have have taken an active role in promoting the pre-release.  That was a snub to the minority of customers who were not able to participate.  And it was a huge snub to the handful of customers who purchased copies from the store only to learn that they couldn't play the material being discussed on the forums.  Outright censorship is very much standard for betas.  Squad has placed rules on many pre-release teams specifically banning public discussions of pre-release material.  Talk to anyone who has been on the media team.  So it would not have been unreasonable for Squad to request that those allowed into the latest beta not produce vids or discuss material publicly.

[Fallarnon]

2 minutes ago, Sandworm said:

Outright censorship is very much standard for closed betas.

I've gone ahead and adjusted your sentence here for improved accuracy. As I said, the issue you should be upset with them over is that they did not provide you with a Steam key, not that they allowed people involved in an open test to discuss that open test.

[RocketBlam]

Someone else getting a version before you is not "punishing" you. 1.1 was a pre-release at the time, which is a beta. People have the choice of participating, although not everyone, just like most betas. You are not harmed at all, nor is anyone else who doesn't participate.

[Streetwind]

My thoughts? Well, I had, and have, nothing against it. Why should I be the judge of how others choose to have fun, so long as it harms nobody?

I liken it to just about any movie or game release on an international scale. Some countries simply get the product earlier than others, due to how that kind of thing works. I've never complained about having to wait half a year for a movie to be translated from English into my native tongue until I can finally go pay to see it. Why would I complain about others having access to a buggy, unfinished beta build of a free update two weeks early?

Edited April 20, 2016 by Streetwind

[DoctorDavinci]

10 minutes ago, RocketBlam said:

Someone else getting a version before you is not "punishing" you. 1.1 was a pre-release at the time, which is a beta. People have the choice of participating, although not everyone, just like most betas. You are not harmed at all, nor is anyone else who doesn't participate.

I understand what you are saying but you're not addressing the point I am asking the community about

This isn't about Squad nor is it about who got what toy first ,,, I am asking a question about what the community thinks concerning certain community members not respecting others within the community in regards to posting challenges in the challenge section regarding the 1.1 pre-release even after it was asked that the community refrain from doing so

How this has degenerated into a flame war over the choice that was made has shown so far that we as a community aren't even capable of having a civil discussion without resorting to personal attacks ... this is the most disturbing part

Edited April 20, 2016 by DoctorDavinci

[Deddly]

So @DoctorDavinci, can you link to such a challenge, just to make it clearer for everybody?

[DoctorDavinci]

1 minute ago, Deddly said:

So @DoctorDavinci, can you link to such a challenge, just to make it clearer for everybody?

As a matter of fact I am unable to due to the challenge I am specifically speaking of was edited to remove any mention of the pre-release ... Why it was edited is anyone's guess although it is likely that a MOD stepped in and asked that the challenge be changed until 1.1 was released

[Fallarnon]

3 minutes ago, Deddly said:

So @DoctorDavinci, can you link to such a challenge, just to make it clearer for everybody?

And link to where Squad asked people to refrain from doing so? 

[Deddly]

@Fallarnon I don't think anyone has suggested that it was against the rules, he was just asking for opinions, and I think your opinion is quite clear already.

[RocketBlam]

Also, let me point out: the purpose of the pre-release was not to give players an early version of the update. It was to allow Squad to test the game before release. This isn't a reward for players, it's a beta test, to benefit Squad.

As far as players creating challenges... I think this is a very minor thing to get upset about, if that's really all that bothers you.

Edited April 20, 2016 by RocketBlam

[rudi1291]

Most challenges are updated by now, and SQUAD never asked us to refrain from such things during pre-release - as far as i´m aware off. 

However, although i had pre-release access, i can understand the OP. I just feel it wouldn´t be fair. For the same reason i didn´t post any crafts, that i made during pre-release, to KerbalX until today.

[DoctorDavinci]

1 minute ago, RocketBlam said:

Also, let me point out: the purpose of the pre-release was not to give players an early version of the update. It was to allow Squad to test the game before release. This isn't a reward for players, it's a beta test, to benefit Squad.

As far as players creating challenges... I think this is a very minor thing to get upset about, if that's really all that bothers you.

And finally, not to be a stickler (or grammar bad person), but three commas (",,,") don't mean anything. Ellipses are made with periods.

First off I'm not really upset, angry or even got my panties in a bunch

Second off attacking me for pressing the wrong key three times (,,, instead of ...) goes to show what I mentioned above which is we as a community can't even hold a civil conversation without resorting to personal attacks ... This is most disturbing

Third off I never said it was a reward to whomever

[RocketBlam]

I actually edited that part out because I decided not to be a petty grammar (member of the party that ran Germany during World War II). 

[DoctorDavinci]

7 minutes ago, Deddly said:

@Fallarnon I don't think anyone has suggested that it was against the rules, he was just asking for opinions, and I think your opinion is quite clear already.

This ^^^^

I ask for an opinion and it turns into attacks all around ... It's turned into WW3 in here over a simple question about what others thought on the matter

Rumble in the Bronx ... how disappointing

[Superfluous J]

You asked what the community thought.

What the community thinks (about most things) is "to argue."