rkman Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 59 minutes ago, regex said: So ... aren't you happy that Squad is changing their ways or is nothing going to be enough for you? Point is this uproar is justified in spite of what the founders are saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hary R Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 WOW. another drama thread i'm glad I didn't take part of... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majorjim! Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 7 hours ago, regex said: Man, people are seriously reaching for any reason to hate on Squad. Suppose it goes with the territory... Just out of interest what do you mean by "goes with the territory"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkman Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 I think it goes with the territory of KSP fans that are so dedicated to the game that any criticism of it and its development, is interpreted as being "against". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plusck Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 (edited) 17 minutes ago, rkman said: I think it goes with the territory of KSP fans that are so dedicated to the game that any criticism of it and its development, is interpreted as being "against". Hmm. Fixed that for you to avoid bias: "I think it goes with the territory of KSP fans that are so dedicated to the game that they'll grab their pitchforks at a moment's notice." Edited May 9, 2016 by Plusck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo13 Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 (edited) Here's an interesting article, written by former dev PDtv and corroborated by other former Squad devs, such as R4m0n, which discusses working at Squad on KSP: Working at Squad //here come the fanboys... Edited May 9, 2016 by Apollo13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Shifty Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 37 minutes ago, Apollo13 said: Here's an interesting article, written by former dev PDtv and corroborated by other former Squad devs, such as R4m0n, which discusses working at Squad on KSP: Working at Squad //here come the fanboys... How interesting that they've buried your thread here: a PR trick, like releasing negative political news on Friday afternoon. Fear of daylight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regex Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 4 hours ago, Majorjim said: Just out of interest what do you mean by "goes with the territory"? The video game industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majorjim! Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 4 minutes ago, regex said: The video game industry. Right ok, I though as much, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regex Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 6 hours ago, rkman said: Point is this uproar is justified in spite of what the founders are saying. So ... if Squad are making a change and things are getting better, what purpose does the uproar and any attempts to "damage Squad" serve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo13 Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 53 minutes ago, Mr Shifty said: How interesting that they've buried your thread here: a PR trick, like releasing negative political news on Friday afternoon. Fear of daylight? Yep. Rather than respond to information, just bury it. I guess Squad could have deleted the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.Random Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 22 minutes ago, regex said: So ... if Squad are making a change and things are getting better, what purpose does the uproar and any attempts to "damage Squad" serve? The best proof of "things getting better" would be a proper release without rush, crunches and OT and with "when it's done" attitude in mind. We are yet to see one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razark Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 3 minutes ago, Apollo13 said: Yep. Rather than respond to information, just bury it. I guess Squad could have deleted the thread. How is this buried? It was merged into an already existing thread on the same topic, in which the article has already been linked. If information was being buried, there wouldn't be a 12 page (at this point) long, unlocked thread, including posts from active moderators, and a posted response from "The founders". You cannot in all honesty claim that they're hiding this right now, no matter what else you might think of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plusck Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 37 minutes ago, Apollo13 said: Here's an interesting article, written by former dev PDtv and corroborated by other former Squad devs, such as R4m0n, which discusses working at Squad on KSP: Working at Squad //here come the fanboys... Basically that's just a rehash of the link contained in OP. It also claims not to be written by PDtv. 7 minutes ago, Apollo13 said: Yep. Rather than respond to information, just bury it. I guess Squad could have deleted the thread. I think your sarcasm detector is broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regex Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 (edited) 17 minutes ago, J.Random said: The best proof of "things getting better" would be a proper release without rush, crunches and OT and with "when it's done" attitude in mind. We are yet to see one. The best proof, for me, of "things getting better" would be several people I respect from the community, one of whom I communicate with candidly fairly regularly, staying on at Squad for more than one release. Also seeing one of those people take some time off during said terrible crunch time. Sure, management could do better than a marketing schedule for software and we could have a better relese ethic, but that's all aside this grudge drama. Edited May 9, 2016 by regex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo13 Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 40 minutes ago, Plusck said: Basically that's just a rehash of the link contained in OP. It also claims not to be written by PDtv. True; I misspoke PDtv is not the author. Mea culpa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rocketeer Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 (edited) 3 hours ago, regex said: So ... if Squad are making a change and things are getting better, what purpose does the uproar and any attempts to "damage Squad" serve? @regex a lot of your posts on this thread are basically all saying the same thing: "so what?" Well, to answer that... First, talking about this and expressing displeasure about it is really all we can do. None of us have grounds to bring Squad to any sort of legal tribunal about it. Then again, bad press is it's own kind of justice. The more noise that's made about it (note that's us, right now, talking about it), the more people hear about it, the worse Squad's reputation gets (something they ought to understand considering it's a mechanic in their game). That, right there, feeds back into Squad's commercial business in all kinds of subtle ways, whether they're trying to hire, trying to look for partners in future business investment, or trying to sell to customers (if you're looking for a marketing team, or buying a motorcycle, would you go with a company that has a reputation for abusing it's staff, or one that doesn't?). Secondly, not everything is about the direct effect on Squad. A lot of guys here are probably just trying to express solidarity with the underdog, or vent their own frustrations. This forum, like all forums, is just a place to publicly express yourself. Nobody needs to throw down on what they say here, but saying it might be fulfilling some other intellectual/emotional need. Your posts, in fact, undermine that completely by trying to point out that it's all bluster. Well, so what if it is all bluster? If the guys posting here are unhappy about what they're reading, and in expressing that unhappiness they imply some sort of affirmative action, why should they need to be reminded how powerless they actually are in this situation? On a side note, even if things are better at Squad now, how does that justify the past? A murderer who claims to have given up murdering doesn't just get absolved of all his past murders. If things are better at Squad now, good for the people at Squad now. On the other hand, maybe Squad should make some sort of statement to reward the efforts of their former contributors? Nobody gets anywhere in life all by themselves... Edited May 9, 2016 by The_Rocketeer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DChurchill Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 On 5/8/2016 at 2:40 PM, m-theory said: Its all pretty pointless. This is my solution to the problem, all those who think Squad has turned to the dark side stop playing KSP, erase it of you HDD and say no more about it, and continue to believe the ramblings of some guy on 4chan. I will continue to play KSP as I don't have any axe to grind with Squad and am extremely happy with KSP 1.1.2 and eagerly await more updates and improvements. Thank you Squad. If I could like a post more than once, this would be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regex Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 (edited) 44 minutes ago, The_Rocketeer said: First, talking about this and expressing displeasure about it is really all we can do. None of us have grounds to bring Squad to any sort of legal tribunal about it. Then again, bad press is it's own kind of justice. The more noise that's made about it (note that's us, right now, talking about it), the more people hear about it, the worse Squad's reputation gets (something they ought to understand considering it's a mechanic in their game). That, right there, feeds back into Squad's commercial business in all kinds of subtle ways, whether they're trying to hire, trying to look for partners in future business investment, or trying to sell to customers (if you're looking for a marketing team, or buying a motorcycle, would you go with a company that has a reputation for abusing it's staff, or one that doesn't?). So ... even if Squad is (trying to) mak(e/ing) things better for their current employees we should still try to damage their reputation? Sounds great for the current employees. All I'm saying that the reasoning behind this is entirely based on a vindictive former employee who literally wants to "damage Squad", which hurts far more people than just "the founders" if things are, in fact, better or getting better (which I have no reason to not believe at this point). If your answer is "those people will find better work" then I ask why the former employees didn't cut and run at an earlier opportunity instead of nursing a three-year-old grudge. Quote A lot of guys here are probably just trying to express solidarity with the underdog, or vent their own frustrations. This forum, like all forums, is just a place to publicly express yourself. Drama for drama's sake? I mean, that's fun and all but if the stated aim is based on a three-year-old grudge... Quote On a side note, even if things are better at Squad now, how does that justify the past? Are companies and people not allowed to make themselves better, fix their reputation? We should just always assume that Squad will abuse employees despite evidence to the contrary? Quote On the other hand, maybe Squad should make some sort of statement to reward the efforts of their former contributors? Nobody gets anywhere in life all by themselves... I don't think that would have the effect you think it will. Basically nothing is going to be good enough for the detractors. Edited May 9, 2016 by regex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DChurchill Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 4 minutes ago, regex said: Basically nothing is going to be good enough for the detractors. +1 internets to you, Sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rocketeer Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 5 minutes ago, regex said: So ... even if Squad is (trying to) mak(e/ing) things better for their current employees we should still try to damage their reputation? Sounds great for the current employees. Are companies and people not allowed to make themselves better, fix their reputation? We should just always assume that Squad will abuse employees despite evidence to the contrary. Basically nothing is going to be good enough for the detractors. We're (all of us) not trying to damage their reputation, we're expressing our feelings about the claims and in some cases whether or not we believe them. If their reputation is damaged in the crossfire, that can't be anything but proportionate to the claims and how Squad themselves handle them. Yes companies are totally allowed to fix their reputations, but since the reputation is only just coming out now, the time for fixing it has to be in the future, and the work is Squad's to do. That's also a kind of justice - we don't preemptively give good reputations to people who haven't earned them. I think ur last sentence sums up your whole attitude here. I am not a detractor, I am a concerned customer, as are most/all of us here. Our views are our entitlement as such. Squad will determine the extent of our satisfaction based on their future performance. Your interest in this smacks of morbid curiosity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regex Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 7 minutes ago, The_Rocketeer said: I think ur last sentence sums up your whole attitude here. I am not a detractor, I am a concerned customer, as are most/all of us here. Our views are our entitlement as such. Squad will determine the extent of our satisfaction based on their future performance. Ah, well, let me rephrase then: "Concerned customers will always find something to be concerned about." I hope the next update serves you all well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rocketeer Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 Just now, regex said: "Concerned customers will always find something to be concerned about." If only... if we all took such a responsible approach to conducting our affairs, perhaps there would be some proper accountability in this world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regex Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 3 minutes ago, The_Rocketeer said: If only... if we all took such a responsible approach to conducting our affairs, perhaps there would be some proper accountability in this world. I, too, would appreciate evidence being scrutinized fully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curveball Anders Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 11 minutes ago, The_Rocketeer said: We're (all of us) not trying to damage their reputation, we're expressing our feelings about the claims and in some cases whether or not we believe them. Actually the most of 'us' are having fun playing the game and can't be bothered with corporate politics outside the hours we have to deal with our own corporate politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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